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May 12, 2009 4:15 PM PDT

Apple releases OS X 10.5.7

by Steven Musil
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(Credit: Screenshot by Steven Musil/CNET)

Updated at 11 p.m. PDT with link to troubleshooting support.

Apple on Tuesday released OS X 10.5.7, an update to its Leopard operating system that is intended to fix a variety of bugs and security issues, as well as provide expanded hardware support.

Several security issues are addressed in the update, including issues related to Apache Web server, PHP, CoreGraphics, and Safari. The update patches three separate vulnerabilities in Apple Type Services, QuickDraw Manager, and WebKit, all of which could allow for arbitrary code execution.

Among the hardware support enhancements is additional RAW image support for third-party digital cameras--a format that allows for retention of more image information than JPEGs. The update also improves performance of video playback and cursor movements for recent Macs with Nvidia graphics components and resolves an issue with Dvorak keyboard layout in Mac OS X 10.5.6.

OS X 10.5.7 includes patches for issues related to network stability and performance, as well as issues related to logging in to Gmail and synching contacts on Yahoo. The update also includes a patch to improve the accuracy of several Dashboard widgets, including Unit Converter, Stocks, Weather, and Movies.

Improvements to iCal include improved reliability with CalDav as well as automatic syncing with MobileMe. Apple has also improved its Parental Controls and applications restrictions.

The update, which is recommended for all users running Mac OS X Leopard, is available through a standalone installer or Software Update.

Some users have complained about installation issues related to the update. For troubleshooting tips, see MacFixIt.

Steven Musil is the night news editor at CNET News. Before joining CNET News in 2000, Steven spent 10 years at various Bay Area newspapers. E-mail Steven.
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by Mr. Dee May 12, 2009 4:52 PM PDT
Geez, this update makes Mac OS X sound like Swiss Cheese and I think we can all agree it is. Mac users have it bad, real bad. The Delta and Combo Updates are humongous! An update from 10.5.6 is 442 MBs, nearly a GB for Server. AppleRocks1963, get ready to spend until the year 2016 downloading updates for your fruit. Updating from Vista SP1 to SP2 was just a simple 56 MB update, installed in less than 10 mins.

CNET, you are very slow with the news, this information was on MacRumors nearly 3 hours ago - Get with the times RSS, Twitter?
Reply to this comment
by monkeyfun14 May 12, 2009 5:09 PM PDT
Meh don't attack the OS unless someone attacks yours if everyone lived by these rules trolls would cease to exist..
by puterhead May 12, 2009 5:10 PM PDT
Definitely swiss cheese. If where anymore full of holes to be plugged and needed many more mb's worth of patches you could just call it windows and be done with it......
by monkeyfun14 May 12, 2009 5:12 PM PDT
@puterhead

I just did a rare thing by defending your OS to prevent trolling the lease you could do is not feed it.
by rollcage May 12, 2009 5:13 PM PDT
Because 30 minutes is the equivalent of 6.5 years...
by snicka12 May 12, 2009 5:22 PM PDT
only took me 5 minutes to update...mabe on ur ****** machine it would take years to donwload a tini litle update like this...
by monkeyfun14 May 12, 2009 5:27 PM PDT
@snica

Coming close to the size of a XP iso I wouldn't necessarily call it a tiny update.
by ikramerica--2008 May 12, 2009 5:31 PM PDT
That machine hasn't been updated in a LONG time. It's a complete misrepresentation of the update. I know because I just updated my MBP.

A PROPERLY updated machine over the last year or so would not list any of those things other than 10.5.7, which still weighs in at 250+ MB (not 400+), but it does include a new version of Safari which is 40MB on it's own.
by DrtyDogg May 12, 2009 5:46 PM PDT
irkamerica:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/macosx_updates/macosx1057update.html

File Size:442MB
by Mr. Dee May 12, 2009 5:49 PM PDT
I can see the Paris Hilton Collection gang has come out in full force with their PR patches to make it seem like everything is just perfect. The point remains, these are all bug fixes for your broken platform. How long will it take for you folks to get a decent working copy of Mac OS X?

10.1
10.2
10.3
10.4
10.5
10.5.1
10.5.2
10.5.3
10.5.4
10.5.5
10.5.6
10.5.7

Sick! So you are trying to tell me the Mac OS X Team regardless of their high level development processes were not aware of these problems as far back as mid 2008? Its very obvious that Leopard users have beta testing Mac OS X Leopersy since October 2007.
by SIGHUP May 12, 2009 7:08 PM PDT
@Mr Dee

******** annoy me as much as anyone, but I have to side with them on this one. Every OS has bugs. I would be more concerned if an OS did not release bug fixes every once in awhile. Good for Apple for getting the stuff taking care of.
See more comment replies
by dudesmiles May 12, 2009 5:27 PM PDT
yes! i love cnet!
Reply to this comment
by ikramerica--2008 May 12, 2009 5:33 PM PDT
Anyway, it was downloaded and installed via airport connection in the time it took me to stir fry dinner, about 12 minutes. Hardly a stressful experience. ;)
Reply to this comment
by kelmon May 13, 2009 5:03 AM PDT
Ah, I can top that. I installed it last night while I went to brush my teeth. The only issue is simply the fact that it means rebooting the computer and that is something that rarely happens.
by s. maller May 12, 2009 5:34 PM PDT
Ran the update on two different computers from two different ISPs (one at home and one at work) that are both running OS X 10.5.6. Both reported the following error:

The update "Mac OS X Update" can't be saved.
The digital signature for this package is incorrect. The package may have been tampered with or corrupted since being signed by "Apple".
Reply to this comment
by rollcage May 12, 2009 5:41 PM PDT
I think Apple's servers are being slammed right now, you can try downloading the update separately from Apple's site, which doesn't seem to be having the same problem.
by gertruded May 12, 2009 5:41 PM PDT
same messages here.
by francorlopez May 12, 2009 6:59 PM PDT
Did you ever figure a way to d-load? I am getting the same error message...Thanks!
by Michichael May 12, 2009 5:38 PM PDT
Security holes on an operating system? Never!
Reply to this comment
by PoetCSW May 12, 2009 5:47 PM PDT
It appears less than half of the patch is security-related. The RAW image updates, video drivers, widget updates, and other items are significant. Anything improving iCal is welcomed, too.

Still, 50 to 70MB of security patches is pretty substantial. That's a good thing. Code will never be perfect, though.
Reply to this comment
by Perry_Clease May 12, 2009 6:01 PM PDT
There is an update for Tiger as well
Reply to this comment
by stevenmusil May 12, 2009 6:01 PM PDT
@ikramerica--2008: This report is based solely on documentation released by Apple on Tuesday. I have substituted the image at the top of the blog to avoid any further confusion.
Reply to this comment
by CBSTV May 12, 2009 6:18 PM PDT
I skipped the 10.5.6 update because it and an installed PCI card interfered with my Mac Pro's sleep mode. But 10.5.7 has worked great all around so far.

Also, Safari 3.2.3 is more brisk at loading and switching among pages.
Reply to this comment
by Angmarr May 12, 2009 6:49 PM PDT
"Operating system Fixes"; "vulnerabilities"; "patch"; ........ "RESTART WILL BE REQUIRED!!!"

OMG Priceless!!!

For a second I though this is windows! Then I saw how little Trolls there were! might as well do my part LOL
Reply to this comment
by aMUSICsite May 13, 2009 3:50 AM PDT
Restarts after some of the patches on OS X is quite common. The big difference from Windows is you very rarely have to do it for a 3rd party bit of software.

Does it fix the problem that YOU CAN SORT BY SIZE or list the file sizes in search results!!!
by Angmarr May 13, 2009 12:54 PM PDT
"The big difference from Windows is you very rarely have to do it for a 3rd party bit of software"

Macs dont have 3ed party software (in comparison to Windows)
Sry pal .. you set me up = )
by kcotham May 14, 2009 7:02 PM PDT
So you admit that you are a troll Angmarr, it's about time. Do us all a favour and grow up.
by May 12, 2009 6:50 PM PDT
Yay OS X 10.5.7 update fixes the battery menu on laptops, can now switch battery efficiency.
Reply to this comment
by kcotham May 15, 2009 12:35 AM PDT
Fantastic, I had not noticed they fixed that! I called them about that. It's great that they fixed that.
by francorlopez May 12, 2009 6:58 PM PDT
I get error message:

The update "Mac OS X Update" can't be saved.
The digital signature for this package is incorrect. The package may have been tampered with or corrupted since being signed by "Apple".
Reply to this comment
by kcotham May 15, 2009 12:36 AM PDT
Try running it straight from Software Update. If that's what you are doing, try downloading straight from apple.com.
by RompStar_420 May 12, 2009 7:00 PM PDT
Whatever!!!!! OS X is great! I have been using Micro soft products since their first release of DOS and nothing that Microsoft ever has made compares to OS X. Lots if things and features from Vista and now, wow! Windows 7, are we switching to the numbering game, because it has worked so well for OS X ?

LOL

And that's that, Apple rules!
Reply to this comment
by baconstang May 13, 2009 4:48 PM PDT
Actually MS is thinking naming their OS releases after common parasite hosts.
by jcomputm May 12, 2009 8:00 PM PDT
Macintosh. It's history is well known. From Macintosh "Lisa" to the iMacintosh of today, it has turned from ol' system to mac osx
Reply to this comment
by rapier1 May 12, 2009 8:30 PM PDT
What I'm wondering about is the writer here who gave his stepparents a refurbed mac because windows requires so many huge hundreds of megabyte updates. Not defending windows, I just like the irony.
Reply to this comment
by Jonnygthedrummer May 12, 2009 8:41 PM PDT
haha ya, true , but seems like there is alot more updating with windows, even though im considerable new to macs, the updating seems smotther, for instance when restartin after updating, it asks if u want to install the update, or just restar regulary, to my knowledge , windows dont do that, or not that easyly

i find both os's have pros an cons, i prefer mac
by monkeyfun14 May 12, 2009 8:43 PM PDT
I can hear it now...

God dammit the internet the internet is slow again!
by rapier1 May 13, 2009 10:03 AM PDT
Dear lord, on my Mac the update size is 449MB.
by Seaspray0 May 14, 2009 1:22 PM PDT
That would be Daniel Terdiman. I guess his parents are in for a bit of a shock with this update. The second part of that irony... windows uses an intelligent transfer for the updates (BITS). If they get interrupted (i.e. cut off due to bandwidth limit or connection was interrupted), they can resume right where they left off. Even if the update exceeded the daily limit, the update would have eventually completed. Hey, Daniel. So much for being a "hero".
by sargess25 May 12, 2009 10:18 PM PDT
downloading it now :-) Macs and OS X a marriage made in heaven
Reply to this comment
by ies00 May 13, 2009 12:36 AM PDT
I made a mistake of buying a mac book pro?.yet, I am using windows 7 beta on it and stopped using the OSX for the following:

1. OSX has basic features. There is only the user interface, with flashy windows and popups
2. No descent software support. You are locked down with the preinstalled osx applications, yet most of the major software companies doesn?t have descent working applications for OSX (excluding Adobe of course)

3. True, windows used to get blue screens, however, in my MAC, there is no blue screen, there is a SYSTEM FREEZE. Have you tried sending the MAC to sleep and waking it up again!!!! Well, it will freeze.

4. The same problem with overheating since the introduction of Intel CPUs?.and still am using the newest ?ultimate, most beautiful, engineered? design, which in other words is ?overheated aluminum cover?.

5. OSX is full of holes, what an OS that the users have to pay for every service pack!!! Now we are in 10.5.7!! 7 patches, 5 service packs on the last patch!!!!! And each update is in the 100s of MegaBytes!!!

6. MACs = expensive PCs with aluminum casing. Basic hardware (I paid 3000$ to get two usb slots!!! Not even HDMI, nothing at all)

7. A computer should be used for productivity and not showing off some flashy user interface that doesn?t do anything except impress children.
Reply to this comment
by ckh1272 May 13, 2009 2:49 AM PDT
1.-Please explain "basic features".
2.-You really haven't worked with a lot of mac software, have you?
3.-Sleep issues can be remedied. Try support or discussion boards. It is normally a simple fix (I haven't had this problem with my 1st gen. Intel MBP).
4.-ALL LAPTOPS GET HOT. I know it is not perfect, but the aluminum helps to dissipate the heat from the inside (to keep from killing internal components). My brother had a top of the line alienware laptop (about three years ago). That was impossible to put on your lap after a certain amount of time. It lasted just over a year before parts of the motherboard literally melted due to intense heat (all the fans continued to work after post check, so that wasn't the issue). My point is, if you feel so strongly about the heat/issue, don't buy intel next time (oh, AMD will have the same problem BTW).
5.-Paying for service packs?? You're kidding right? "Now we are in 10.5.7!! 7 patches, 5 service packs on the last patch!!!!! And each update is in the 100s of MegaBytes!!! "--not making much sense there. You should really look up the definition of "service pack".
6. and 7.-Did you not notice the number of ports on the computer before you bought it?? I agree that a few more ports would be nice, but fault falls on you if you bought the item knowing what it had (or didn't have).

Freakin' priceless!!
by kelmon May 13, 2009 5:13 AM PDT
Question: have you tried taking the MacBook Pro out of the box? My current one is approaching 3-years old and I have never encountered any of the issues that you are describing (aside from overheating under Windows when playing Dawn of War, which I think is due to Windows not controlling the fans well enough). One of the primary reasons why I have an Apple laptop is that the sleep/wake is done perfectly whereas that has never worked consistently on any Windows-based laptop I have owned. As a general rule, my laptop goes through a sleep/wake cycle many times per day and it has never frozen.
by monkeyfun14 May 13, 2009 5:44 AM PDT
@kelmon


The OS of a computer does not control the fans the motherboard and processor do.
by ies00 May 14, 2009 1:21 AM PDT
1. you tell me, i only saw the multitouch and flashy UI, and nothng much that would make a MAC a great buy. OSX is full of bugs, same as all other software out there, 7 service packs for the same release!!!! and at least microsoft doesnt hide behind its bugs, while apple never admits and keep saying :"securityand performance improvements:"
ex: the mobileme drama.......2 weeks of bug fixing and service down, AFTER RELEASE :) hehe
and it is just a copy of windows live mesh and other technologies.

didnt you notice that the multitouch was a copy of microsoft surface? but with much less capabilities?

2. give me a software vendor, besides adobe, that have its MAC OS version that includes MORE FEAURES than the ones of Windows! or at least with similar ones. Even IM clients are basic in mac.

3. this means that your OS is buggy, and i need support groups.....
how come now it is BUGGY, yet IT IS PERFECT and NEVR HAS ISSUES?
i have MAC BOOK PRO 2.53 GHZ. 15 inch.....and when i send it to sleep, it never wakes up....or it does, but it is unusable till i kill it.....

4. yeah, if i touch the top of my laptopn, on the top left corner of th keyboard i would burn my hand!!!....i
at work, i have an IBM, 5 yrs old laptop.....running VISUAL STUDIO and SQL SERVER, and yet, it never failed, not even once.......
the overheating is a problem with the internal fan controls....
apple is so obsessed with silent laptops .... this is causing them the trouble,

5,. i work in SW development, and i know what a service pack is.
check XPSP2 for example...

6.i am proving a point that paying 3000$ for a MAC is not worth it at all, unless u want to show off the exterior design, but for usability, a PC is a way better choice, and much more extensions, at less price.......

7. after using my mac for three months now, or even more i think......i concluded that its only good for its exterior design, but the price and working in OSx is pain.
not even open office has all the microsoft office features...
it is just basic.......and unless you do web browsing and simple things, a MAC is useless.(mac osx)

8. we need to differentiate between MAC and OSX.
mac = PC. with some aluminum casing.
OSX = operating system.......which is not even a competitor, not even with XP, nor Vita and not even Windows 7.
thats why 80%+ market share is for windows, or no?
by kcotham May 15, 2009 12:51 AM PDT
ies00

You are obviously either trolling or completely new to the Mac OS. I'm going to assume the latter.

1. Mac OS X has tons of features. And it comes with just about everything you need for day to day computing. What you don't have, is out there, trust me. Windows doesn't even include an e-mail app for crying out loud.

2. Call Apple and then call Dell or HP. You'll see in a hurry that Apple got to be the highest rated customer support in the industry for a reason. Adobe doesn't have any software that is included on a Macintosh, yet they do have programs for purchase. You are not "locked down" with only the included programs. That's just stupid. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of good Mac OS X programs out there. And with a little technical know-how, you can also run a lot of UNIX apps. Download.com is your friend, use it.

3. What have you been doing to that poor machine to make it behave so? I have NEVER had a Macintosh freeze on wakeup. Now Windows computers, that's another story. I've personally owned Macintoshes since 1998 and never had one behave the way you are describing.

4. You are feeling more of the heat because the aluminium case is "wicking" the heat away from the electronics out using the case. A plastic case will insulate you from the heat more, but cook the electronics inside. I can assure you, if you had a Windows computer with the same hardware specs doing the same activity, it would get just as hot inside the machine, if not more so (if it were made of plastic).

5. These updates are far between and are improvements. Don't you want those "holes" plugged?

6. You actually do have HDMI, it's the DVI port. DVI and HDMI are electrically compatible. All you need is an adapter. I do agree that it needs more than two USB ports, but miniature USB hubs are cheap and easy to find.

7. You are just having buyer's remorse. It's normal. You have something different and strange and that is scary to you. If you open up your mind and stop thinking in Microsoft terms, you will find that your Macintosh is a very capable machine and Mac OS X will enable you to be extremely productive, more so than in the Windows environment. You just have to unlearn all the years of bad Microsoft habits.

Good luck and best wishes.
by ies00 May 15, 2009 5:01 AM PDT
kcotham..
its so funny :)
1. WINDOWS always had a mail program (outlook express) and now has WINDOWS LIVE MAIL....just check before writing those claims...and IMAIL is much less in features or UI than the live mail...check it .
what are the tons of features that ARE NOT found in windows?:)

2."You'll see in a hurry that Apple got to be the highest rated customer support in the industry for a reason". seems u never read the customer complaints about the BAD apple support, and how they never admit anything. remember the MOBILE ME???? hehe, if MS did that, you would have burnt it down, but for apple, it is OK. no?
i tried, there are no MAC OS X apps, apart form the adobe advanced ones, and other graphic design things...
give me some examples!!! even a proper IM program doesnt exist

locked down with NO SW support and especially no hardware support.
i want to see you replacing the VGA card in your macbook with another from another manufacturer......do it and tell me about your magical OS X, ,,,, or, it wont work?


3. yeah..apple OSX is perfect. thats why it needed 7 patches!!!! you never had any issues, yet you patch ur OS:)

4. i have a sony vaio and i have LENOVO...and they never heat up, and never they reach a bioling point. what about the screen, what will the heat do to it? especilly that the hot part is close to the screen!!

5.you claim that it is a perfect OS, yet it has holes? just decide on one.
and maybe since u agree that it has holes, then all those FAKE/MYTH 'iam a mac" ads, should be deleted????:)
how can one claim that their platform has no problems at all, yet, they need patches to fix.....their problems?!!!! no logic in here

6.so u want me to carry USB extensions, and DVI-HDMI extensions, and have a case full of wires and extensions, everywhere i go? mmmmm....what a solution. this makes my mac cost: 3000$ + all cables i need? and weight?!!!
perfect indeed

7.can u explain HOW MAC OS X is BETTER THAN WINDOWS? give me real examples..... just tell me:mac os X is better because of SO AND SO AND SO.....yet, u cannot.....or can u?
by ralfthedog May 15, 2009 7:11 AM PDT
"7.can u explain HOW MAC OS X is BETTER THAN WINDOWS? give me real examples..... just tell me:mac os X is better because of SO AND SO AND SO.....yet, u cannot.....or can u?"

I will start with this because it is the easiest. OS-X uses less memory. It eats less clock cycles. It handles multiple cores better. It has a far better set of development tools. The development tools come free with every copy of the OS. No DRM on the OS install, If you want to wipe the hard drive and put a fresh copy of the OS on your computer, just insert the disk and click install. Very cool incremental backup software included. I like the UI much better (As do most people who use both). The insides of the OS are derived from BSD Unix. This makes dealing with system maintenance much easier for those of us who have Unix/Linux backgrounds. If you need tech support, just drive to the mall. You don't need to call someone in India.

This was just a few things off the top of my head. I am sure I missed quite a few.
by kcotham May 15, 2009 8:15 PM PDT
ies00

I assumed wrongly. You are obviously the former ,a troll.

1. Live Mail is webmail, not an e-mail client. If you don't know the difference, then there is no hope for you. It was purchased by Microsoft from Hotmail back in the 1990's. Outlook Express no longer comes with new Windows computers, not the ones I've seen anyway.

The application is called "Mail", not "IMAIL" What features? Mail has features that Live Mail doesn't have. You will hardly ever find a complete duplication of features in any two software packages. Mail acts in concert with Address Book and iCal. I suggest you "check it".

2. No support centre in the computer industry got a great score. The latest study showed that even the airlines scored better. But Apple DID score much higher than the next Wintel manufacturer. The story was here on CNET, "check it". By saying that "there are no apps" you are demonstrating either a complete ignorance that astounds me or colossal laziness. What are you looking for? Games? Is that it? "Propper IM"? What the heck is wrong with "iChat"? If you don't like it, try "Adium", at http://adium.im/. There are others besides it as well. Use download.com, search on Google. It isn't that hard. And there are some very good shareware and freeware programs for Mac OS X that rival the commercial stuff for Windows, if not surpass it. "Locked down with no sw support?" Are you smoking something? What the heck are you whining about. There is always software and hardware support. Just call 1-800-SOS-APPLE. Jeesh! VGA card? You ARE ignorant! Yes, you can add third party graphics cards from NVIDIA and ATI to a Mac Pro. You can't with an iMac, but that's because of its form factor. You can't add a card to an all-in-one made by Dell or HP either. But you have a laptop, and adding cards to a laptop is iffy with any manufacturer, and very expensive. The MacBook Pro already has a very good graphics card.

3. ALL operating systems need patches and updates. It doesn't matter what the operating system is. To assume anything created by man is perfect is both naïve and just plain unrealistic.

4. That heat next to the screen is probably from that NVIDIA card. Your Sony VAIO and Lenovo don't have a NVIDIA 9400 card in them either do they?

5. I never claimed it was perfect. Show me where I said that. You need to take some reading comprehension and writing classes, maybe finish high school. If and when you ever get to college, try a logic course too.

6. There is a different philosphy at play here that you obviously don't understand. If you don't need these things, you can leave them behind and you don't have that weight with a MacBook Pro. If you have a Wintel machine with every bell and whistle included, you are stuck with all these add-ons and their weight whether you need them or not.
Besides if you need more than two USB ports you are already carrying around a bunch of crap with you that most people will not. The MacBook is designed for portability. You probably have the thing parked on a desk anyway.

7. That would take hours. But to sum it up, it's more stable, it's got a better-designed UI (much more efficient), comes with most of the software you need for day to day use (unlike Windows), allows you to use a huge library of UNIX apps, comes with development tools that are first rate, et cetera et cetera.

No matter what I say, you've already made up your mind. I sincerely doubt you have ever even touched a Macintosh let alone bought a MacBook Pro. In all likelihood, you are an internet troll.

Good day.
by ies00 May 15, 2009 11:40 PM PDT
to ralfthedog:

1. easy to use. Windows is easy to use.my 6 yr old cousing is capable of using it, so if u r a bad computer user, its not the fault of MS.
at least with windows, to close an application, you do not have to use the task bar to say "application->close"

now you want to say that the "right click" was invented by apple?!!!!!! hehe

2. it depends on the operations you are doing on your machine to see how much core cycles it is using

3. MAC OSX support of multicores is having a major change in the SNOW LEOPARD, which is delayed now :)
so this multicore support is not even present, yet

4,It has a far better set of development tools ... THIS IS SO FUNNY!!!! do you have like an APPLE DEVELOPMENT NETWORK like ms has?
seems you have never written a windows application before!!!
even IE 8 has "developer tools" attached to it. so this is a myth
MS dev tools come free, even you can get SQL server and VStudio for free!!!! there are free copies, u can download from MS site...
you need to check before saying such things

5 .yeah true, u can wipe up ur disk and install os X , on the ONLY SET OF HW you have!....
you cannot install OSX leopard on an old mac, can you?
isnt every installation DVD specific for the mac you own?
i wish to see you using ur OSX dvd of ur mac book, to install it on some other IMAC, with different specs and HW...
or just build a mac from scratch (or cant u?) and load OSX into it, what will happen :) hehe

6. "Very cool incremental backup software included".. describing a SW as COOL. explains why you are a MAC user:)

7.yes, the UI is flashy, thats all to it. win7 has a flashy UI and better one, so there is no better thing in here

8. didnt apple copy the MS surface technology and apply it to the iphone? in a less advanced implementation?:)

9. "The insides of the OS are derived from BSD Unix. This makes dealing with system maintenance much easier for those of us who have Unix/Linux backgrounds" mmm, tell me, HOW MANY HOME USERS has UNIX background!!!! hehehe......OMGGG.....i dont know why i ever bother to argue with u.!!!!!

10.now you are hating MS because HP has a support center in india!!!!! what a logic?!!!!
like i will hate FORD, because BOSCH has a factory in china!!!!! logic i see
by ies00 May 16, 2009 12:18 AM PDT
To kcotham:

1. WINDOWS LIVE MAIL is an application you download in a pack called WINDOWS LIVE ESSENTIALS. Hehe. And it is done to replace the old OUTLOOK EXPRESS. That?s why you are not able to see outlook express, because it was replaced by this applications!!!!

MAIL features in the MAC !!!! you think windows doesn?t have an address book?:) lool. You truly have never tried a windows machine in your life.

2. You keep saying WINtel??don?t you know that APPLE computers are MACtels!!!! In case you do not, then you are a waste of time to reply to.MAC computers are just PCS with different OS. However, you find it hard to admit, no?

3. Ichat? ARE YOU KIDDING. Explain to me how is ICHAT usable!!!! Or I need to setup an AOL account for it to work? Adium? AMSN? They are full of bugs that they freeze each time I use them, and they don?t even have the features of live messenger,.or even skype features!!!!

4. I went to google, went to download.com. yet, most apps are just garbage?except for the ADOBE ones, which you cannot find for free!!!

5. ?very good shareware and freeware programs for Mac OS X that rival the commercial stuff for Windows, if not surpass it.? No comment! You never used a windows machine before, have you?

6. SW Support meant to be: SW built by other companies to work on OSX. And not calling apple support

7. ? you can add third party graphics cards from NVIDIA and ATI to a Mac Pro.? Not ANY one would work. Not even ANY MOUSE would work in a MAC. What If I decide that I want an AMD cpu installed on my mac?..what would happen to OSX? Burn down!!! Hehe?

8. ?To assume anything created by man is perfect is both naïve and just plain unrealistic? perfect. SAY THAT TO ALL MAC FANS!!!! And not to me.

9. As usual, all mac problems are because of other manufacturers, now it?s the fault of NVIDIA for the heating problem. Seems that apple is perfect but all other suppliers (of its apple products) are the faulty ones!!!! So when my mac screen fails, I should say :?apple is perfect?, check Samsung!!!! Loool. Pathetic

10. I suggest that you at least learn the basics of WINDOWS before you even try to discuss with me the perfection of your apple ? you are so funny, yet, YOU FAIL TO SHOW WHAT IS FOUND IN OSX THAT DOESN?T EXIST IN WINDOWS!!!

11. ?you are stuck with all these add-ons and their weight whether you need them or not. ? THIS IS A PATHETIC LINE FROM THE ?am a mac? campaign. You can just uninstall all these programs if you want to. You can even have a clean installation of windows with no add-ons at all. Its not the end of the world if my windows machine comes with a trail copy of office?..at least IT DOES. Not like OSX that comes with?mmmm, nothing? Then I have to get openoffice (since you hate MS, I wont mention MS offive), where openOffice has basic features!!!

12. TWO USBs are enough?!!!! Funny?.seems you use your machine to facebook and twitter and nothing else.!!!

13. More stable? Its not true. UI, windows has a similar if not better UI, check VISTA or 7.

?comes with most of the software you need for day to day use (unlike Windows)?? funny. Such as????!!! Which ones DO NOT exist for windows! Or you do not know?

What are the dev tools that are first rate? Seems you never developed any application in your life.Have a look at MS offerings?..the least you could look at is IE8, which comes with its OWN dev tools!!!!

UNIX APPS??HUGE LIBRARY? Which one do u use that might be of good interest to home users?

14. You are a mac fan boy?..do not even know how a windows looks like or even the features of windows?.. yet you fail to admit it. I think its you, fan boy with no enough money to purchase a mac book pro, like the one I have?..maybe cs apply took all your savings on earlier macs? And iphone and ipod!!! Lool. Poor you, paying 1000s of $ for a flashy while apply logo!!!

[CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted.]
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by saffroncapital May 13, 2009 12:45 AM PDT
Oh I love trolls... annoying small minded little people with nothing better to do with their live that throw crap at other people... Especially the bit about the next point release proving that Mac OS X is just one long beta...

It could be argued that Vista was just a beta for Windows 7, or that Windows 2000 was just a beta for Windows XP... the same could be applied to any operating system, or car or phone or... well just about anything...

Wallow in your derision and your small mindedness... I don't care.

I like my MacBook Pro and OSX...
Reply to this comment
by ies00 May 13, 2009 12:58 AM PDT
In computer science/development environment:
X:Y:Z refers to:
X=major release
Y=Service Pack
Z= Patch

thus, when apple says: 10.5.7 it means: 5 service packs (they made u pay for, while MS gives them for free) and 7 patches for the last SP.

so you want to tell me that OSX is great!!!!!!
by Ilgaz May 13, 2009 1:55 AM PDT
I miss the old 17 MB file copy trolls
by ckh1272 May 13, 2009 2:58 AM PDT
"by ies00 May 13, 2009 12:58 AM PDT
In computer science/development environment:
X:Y:Z refers to:
X=major release
Y=Service Pack
Z= Patch

thus, when apple says: 10.5.7 it means: 5 service packs (they made u pay for, while MS gives them for free) and 7 patches for the last SP.

so you want to tell me that OSX is great!!!!!!"

-Why don't you try a little research yourself and look up all the versions from 10 to 10.5 and see if that doesn't clear up your state of confusion. There have been numerous differences with each upgrade (some more than others). Service packs (whether for Mac or Windows) are mostly internal updates (i.e. security patches, driver updates, bug fixes), where as the upgrades (i.e 10.4 to 10.5) are those previous updates mentioned and then some (i.e.-better UI), added features (like cover flow and better spotlight search to name a few). Just look it up before you slam something.
by kelmon May 13, 2009 5:17 AM PDT
@ies00

Let me get this straight - you are saying that if Apple named OS X 10.5 as OS 11 then you wouldn't have thought that it is a Service Pack? You must truly be a marketing man's wet dream, someone who will believe that they have a new product simply because it has a new name.
by aMUSICsite May 13, 2009 6:02 AM PDT
Also remember, it's not like you have to upgrade. I still use 10.4 on my G4 laptop.

Each OS 10.X has been worth the money if you want the features it comes with and you have to admit the computer world moves very fast these days. Is one major update of your OS every 3-5 years enough to keep it current (on new machines)?
by Mr. Dee May 13, 2009 6:46 AM PDT
10.1 was a bug fix and persons had to pay $19.95. Whats even worst, Apple charged persons to test the public beta of Mac OS 10.0 and they still managed to mess it up. OS X did not reach a level of, 'I think I will try to use it' until 10.3.
by aMUSICsite May 13, 2009 9:05 AM PDT
"10.1 was a bug fix and persons had to pay $19.95. Whats even worst, Apple charged persons to test the public beta of Mac OS 10.0 and they still managed to mess it up."

Not much different from WindowsME or Vista. All software has a bad hair day from time to time. But then again most Mac users at the time knew is was not great but a step in the right direction and waited until 10.2 or 10.3 to upgrade. Also if you have to go back 8 years to prove a bit of software is not good today it makes it very obvious you are a troll...
by Mr. Dee May 13, 2009 10:18 AM PDT
aMUSICsite I can go back to 10.0, 10.1, 10.2 and even 10.3 in some instances. Windows Vista is not a disaster, its on over 200 million systems. What happened was, the first six months were not so great because the device drivers and application compatibility was not up to par, but it was no fault of the OS. Windows Vista introduced necessary changes such as lease user privilege and innovative features like ASLR (which Mac OS 10.5 copied and implements terribly). The Mac OS didn't get functionality such as Premptive multi-tasking, efficient memory management until 10.0. Windows had those features since NT 3.1.
by ies00 May 13, 2009 10:22 PM PDT
i suggest you get a computer science book to check what X:Y:Z means.....and then you can talk....

and
instead of saying :"pc bad, mac good", i suggest that at least, you describe to me, what are the perfect things in a MAC that does not exist in windows!!!!

even the IPHONe, it is not capable of multitasking, which exists on nokia or windows mobile since...mmmmmm, since forever!!!!!!
by ies00 May 14, 2009 1:04 AM PDT
if an OS is updated every year with a new release, of the same version, then this is a service pack.

it needs at least 3 years to develop a new OS....
i work in software development and there is no magic....a service pack needs one year, but an OS, NO WAY.

MAC OSX = flashy UI and no functionality.
you pay for a PC cased with ALUMINUM....as i said earlier!!! and with less hardware features and less software support!!!!!
by Ilgaz May 13, 2009 1:48 AM PDT
Funny that people complaining about how big update is shows they have no clue about how OS X works, what OS X actually is and what an OS X update includes.
Reply to this comment
by ies00 May 13, 2009 2:28 AM PDT
why dont you enlighten us?

they include :"security and performance improvements for this mac" .... ? !!!! hehehe
by rapier1 May 13, 2009 9:49 AM PDT
Yes please enlighten this poor fool. I mean, I've only been using OS X for 5 years and supporting unix systems for 15. I must be woefully ignorant.
by ies00 May 13, 2009 10:18 PM PDT
"by rapier1 May 13, 2009 9:49 AM PDT
Yes please enlighten this poor fool. I mean, I've only been using OS X for 5 years and supporting unix systems for 15. I must be woefully ignorant."

so you are using OSX for 5 yrs, and 7 patches..........and? i still didnt get what is the point.....where are the security issues?
example: mac being hacke in 30 seconds!!!! :) lool
by Seaspray0 May 14, 2009 1:31 PM PDT
I can't understand why people would want to complain. Wouldn't you want to brag that your update is big and manly instead of a small and flacid? Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
by ckh1272 May 15, 2009 3:50 AM PDT
"by ies00 May 13, 2009 10:18 PM PDT
so you are using OSX for 5 yrs, and 7 patches..........and? i still didnt get what is the point.....where are the security issues?
example: mac being hacke in 30 seconds!!!! :) lool"

Once again, you don't see the whole picture. Any wise Mac user will tell you that no OS is bullet proof (including OS 10). Also, if bothered to read the whole article regarding that "hacking" contest, you'll read that the guy had to poke around for a month to find that exploit. Inform yourself, less the make a fool of himself.
by ies00 May 15, 2009 4:45 AM PDT
and you think that the windows hacker did it in one second? and didnt research :) hehehe, you are so funny at shooting urself in the foot.!!!!

there are NO wise MAC users, as i saw from the above posts, all of them are affected by the MAC ADS (i am a mac).....especially the MYTHS of no viruses, no freezes, perfect software.

if OSX was perfect, then it wouldnt need any patches or updates, or not?
by ckh1272 May 15, 2009 11:03 PM PDT
"by ies00 May 15, 2009 4:45 AM PDT
and you think that the windows hacker did it in one second? and didnt research :) hehehe, you are so funny at shooting urself in the foot.!!!!

there are NO wise MAC users, as i saw from the above posts, all of them are affected by the MAC ADS (i am a mac).....especially the MYTHS of no viruses, no freezes, perfect software.

if OSX was perfect, then it wouldnt need any patches or updates, or not?"

Sorry to burst the bubble, but I am not one those users who thinks that Macs are perfect. I think by reading some of my posts, you could figure that out. On the flip side though, most Windows users have that perception of Mac users being full of themselves. That is a really side state of affairs, just like the Mac users who think that Apple is perfect. Perceptions are not no easy to get around when so many fools state the ignorant (like "Macs are perfect" and "Windows blows"). It all goes back to being well informed. BTW, look up the entire article about the hacking contest. You may be surprised by what you find out, if you read the entire interview with the "hacker". He he he (what is that all about BTW).
by ies00 May 16, 2009 12:22 AM PDT
ckh1272,
perfect, we agree on the same points me and you.
i was talking in genral,about MAC gan boys and winodws fan boys.....

since we agree on all points, i dont see that we should argue about it in any case hehehe.

i know about the **** of MS and the **** of Apple.
yet, reasonable choice is windows.

thats why i have win 7 running on macbook pro...
best exterior design (mac book pro) with best os in themarket (win 7).....
by kemblite May 13, 2009 7:05 AM PDT
Bugs? Security issues?? I thought these were only applicable to Windows! I thought Mac was perfect :-(
Reply to this comment
by ies00 May 13, 2009 7:46 AM PDT
yeah, all mac hardware and software are perfect. thats why they never update them and never fix anything in them. lool
example:
-iphone released, 10 hours later there was a patch, hidden inside itunes:)
-iphone and macbooks with faulty screens...
--and many others...hehe
by ckh1272 May 13, 2009 9:44 AM PDT
"by ies00 May 13, 2009 7:46 AM PDT
yeah, all mac hardware and software are perfect. thats why they never update them and never fix anything in them. lool
example:
-iphone released, 10 hours later there was a patch, hidden inside itunes:)
-iphone and macbooks with faulty screens...
--and many others...hehe"

Wow, more monkeys to donate to the zoo. Sorry, but the flinging of pooh gives it away every time.
by Angmarr May 13, 2009 12:56 PM PDT
guess perfect is in the eyes on a (mac) Zombie lol
by ies00 May 13, 2009 10:17 PM PDT
by ckh1272 "Wow, more monkeys to donate to the zoo. Sorry, but the flinging of pooh gives it away every time."

well,, yet, there is neither a defence nor explanation and nothing except talks and bla bla bla, same as apple ads "mac is good, pc is bad" why? no explanation, just PC is bad!!! :) very funny, brainwashed:)
by ckh1272 May 13, 2009 10:34 PM PDT
"by ies00 May 13, 2009 10:17 PM PDT
by ckh1272 "Wow, more monkeys to donate to the zoo. Sorry, but the flinging of pooh gives it away every time."

well,, yet, there is neither a defence nor explanation and nothing except talks and bla bla bla, same as apple ads "mac is good, pc is bad" why? no explanation, just PC is bad!!! :) very funny, brainwashed:)"

Perhaps if you would actually read the explanations provided to you in earlier posts (by quite a few people, I might add), then there would be no need for the comedic retort. Since the above post is the only one you responded to, I think it proves the point that people only read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear. Brainwashed indeed!
by ies00 May 14, 2009 1:00 AM PDT
ckh1272, i was waiting for your response. answers to my points that i raised in this comment you replied to. yet you fail to do so....
maybe you have no answer....
and i already read what they wrote above and i replied as well...
so i will be waiting for your comments on my points, instead of GOOD MAC, BAD PC...like a monkey hehee
by kcotham May 14, 2009 7:00 PM PDT
You people make me sick. My faith in humanity is slipping away. Clearly, there is a dumbing down going on.
by ckh1272 May 15, 2009 3:47 AM PDT
"by ies00 May 14, 2009 1:00 AM PDT
ckh1272, i was waiting for your response. answers to my points that i raised in this comment you replied to. yet you fail to do so....
maybe you have no answer....
and i already read what they wrote above and i replied as well...
so i will be waiting for your comments on my points, instead of GOOD MAC, BAD PC...like a monkey hehee"

It's not that anyone, including myself, has failed to provide info. It's that you seem to choose to ignore them because of some issues that you are having. BTW, stating that you're a software developer doesn't help your cause much. If you are not exploiting OS X to its full potential (or any OS for that matter), then it is user error or just plain short sightness on your part. Of course, the biggest factor is what do you want out of the computer? If you're just spouting out Microsoft Office, then just go back to a windows system. If you want to delve into the creative side, explore Maya, Pro-Tools, Logic, Lightwave 3D (just to name a few). In the end, it is up to the user to decide how they want to use their computer. Blaming your problems on a computer maker is just a little silly IMO. I still find it funny though, that you claim some software knowledge but fall a little short with hardware knowledge, i.e. ******** about a computer only having two USB ports, yet you still bought it. That is all I am going to say about it. Have a nice day and may your next computer purchase be an informed one!
by ies00 May 15, 2009 4:43 AM PDT
i was looking at the answer to those:"
"""yeah, all mac hardware and software are perfect. thats why they never update them and never fix anything in them. lool
example:
-iphone released, 10 hours later there was a patch, hidden inside itunes:)
-iphone and macbooks with faulty screens..."""

thats what you have failed to address.
and as i said, i got my mac just for ITS EXTERIOR DESIGN, FULL STOP. i knew it had stupid HW extensions.....but this deanst meant that they are right to ripp us off, just for a badge and some an aluminum casing.

talking about SW support, which of those software DO NOT WORK on windows?

i have been asking a straight, direct question,
give me ONE VALID REASON why MAC IS BETTER THAN PC......(OSX better than WINDOWS)....but u fail to do so,
so am waiting for that information
by ckh1272 May 15, 2009 5:50 AM PDT
"by ies00 May 15, 2009 4:43 AM PDT
i was looking at the answer to those:"
"""yeah, all mac hardware and software are perfect. thats why they never update them and never fix anything in them. lool
example:
-iphone released, 10 hours later there was a patch, hidden inside itunes:)
-iphone and macbooks with faulty screens..."""

thats what you have failed to address.
and as i said, i got my mac just for ITS EXTERIOR DESIGN, FULL STOP. i knew it had stupid HW extensions.....but this deanst meant that they are right to ripp us off, just for a badge and some an aluminum casing.

talking about SW support, which of those software DO NOT WORK on windows?

i have been asking a straight, direct question,
give me ONE VALID REASON why MAC IS BETTER THAN PC......(OSX better than WINDOWS)....but u fail to do so,
so am waiting for that information."

Let's see...no registry BS to mess with, no device drivers mysteriously disappearing, faster shutdown, stable (overall. I know there are hiccups, but overall more stable), better customer support (read any article regarding it and yes I know that is not about the OS, but it is tied together). Oh, I can load OS X to an external hard drive and boot from it if necessary (There is a windows solution, but it isn't pretty). TIME MACHINE!! Now I know that everyones experiences will vary, but that's what has been better about OS X compared to Windows (for me). There's your reasons. Any other issues that you would like to flip??
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