A new reason not to install XP SP3

The September 11th edition of the Windows Secrets newsletter included a couple stories about Windows XP SP3, trying to answer the questions of when and whether to install it. Back in April, when Service Pack 3 was released, I advised against rushing into it. But, it's been almost five months, is it safe to go into the SP3 water?

According to Scott Dunn, who wrote the lead article, you don't need to install Service Pack 3 for another year and a half. He says "... overall support for SP2 expires in early 2010, [so] you'll need to have SP3 installed by that date if you want general support for XP."

I view the SP3 issue as a risk vs. reward decision and the reward still seems small compared to the risk. But there can be a Defensive Computing advantage to not installing SP3 that has nothing to do with avoiding potential problems.

The risk of SP3 causing a problem, while persistent, decreases daily as more software, people and hardware get acquainted with it. You can get a sense of the risk involved by reviewing the Microsoft Knowledge Base article Steps to take before you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. As for reward, in one of the articles Scott Dunn tries to make a case for the upside of SP3. I wasn't impressed.

A New Reason To Wait

But, this assumes you're dealing with a normally functioning copy of Windows XP. Installing SP3 can be a great ace in the hole to have when dealing with a problematic or infected copy of Windows XP. I learned this hard way working on a couple computers for clients. In each case the near total refresh of Windows that SP3 provides proved invaluable.

One computer had been sent to the hardware manufacturer for repair and when it was returned, it was forgotten about, since it was old and just serving as a backup. But, when it became important again, it needed 99 bug fixes. Downloading the patches went fine, but only seconds after the installation process started, it ended with a useless error message and no error code.

Suspecting that the install logic for 99 concurrent patches might not have been well-tested, I tried installing just one patch and it worked fine. Then I removed a few that I suspected might be problematic but the remaining 90 failed to install. A random clump of 5 patches installed cleanly, but I wasn't going to sit around installing a couple patches at a time.

Service Pack 3 to the rescue. It downloaded and installed just fine.

Another computer was blue-screening at startup, just after the Windows desktop was displayed. By the time I got it, things had improved, only a background process was crashing, Windows itself remained up. But, as soon as I clicked OK to the warning about a serious failure, it failed again. The Microsoft online crash debugger reported that the offending driver was for the WiFi network adapter. But, updating the driver didn't fix the problem. In fact, the new driver had a new name but the crashes kept occurring in the old driver according to Microsoft.

There were dozens of available Minidumps, but I didn't feel like tracking down and installing the software to read and format the dumps. Much of the information in the dump is over my head anyway.

Here again, Service Pack 3 came to my rescue. Since it was installed, no more crashes.

SP3 is like doing a repair install of Windows, only better. It's a nice fallback option to have when things go wrong.

What To Do?

There is no one right answer for when to install Service Pack 3. Me, I'm hanging back for now. But one thing every techie can agree on, is the need for a disk image backup before installing any service pack.

If you haven't installed SP3 yet, then be aware that Microsoft offers free technical support for installing it until April 14, 2009. Depending on where you live, you may be able to speak to someone from Microsoft on the phone, use an online chat or communicate with them by email.

And take a look at the Windows Secrets newsletter. I find it worthwhile.

Updated September 12, 2008: Re-wrote introductory paragraphs to make things clearer.

See a summary of all my Defensive Computing postings.

[The1egend]

Doesn't sound like you're making the case to hold off on installing SP3. What exactly is the reason or reasons to hold off? Glancing at your previous article on the matter, it seems that you are urging prudent and conservative measures when upgrading to ensure that all your software remains usable. You listed a few compatibility issues, but nothing really remarkable. Are there more issues that people should be aware of? I've used SP3 and noticed really no differences between using SP2 and SP3 (which may be incentive for some not to upgrade).

[groink_hi]

He breaks it down like this: 1. Do the research before installing SP3. Make sure every component in your PC is compatible with SP3 - including applications, peripherals. PC internal hardware, etc. 2. It seems that he prefers to stick wtih SP2, but installs SP3 as a method of repairing a broken Windows install, rather than using SP3 as preventive maintenance. Personally, why he doesn't just re-install SP2 is beyond me... Re-installing the same service pack is a lot smarter than installing something the PC has never seen before during a repair.

[mhinnewyork]

I agree there are no differences between using SP2 and SP3, at least none that most people will notice. Some people will view this as a reason to upgrade, others as a reason not to upgrade. The Scott Dunn article lists some of the compatibility issues but there have been, no doubt, others too. Any time you do a massive software upgrade there is a risk. Disk image backups are your friend. Michael Horowitz

[X-C3PO]

The reason is so weird.
I installed XP SP3 on my NB and it work well, another day uninstall it to try the intel display driver issue, but it's not the cause, so I reinstall the XP SP3. No such crash issue ...
Also, the XP SP3 performance better than the XP SP2 and Vista SP1. Why not to install the XP SP3.

[mhinnewyork]

If there is a performance difference between SP2 and SP3 it's probably trivial. One reason not to install SP3, in addition to the one described in this posting, is the risk of software incompatibility. You never know when you'll have software or a combination of software that experiences a compatibility problem. Many have been document and who knows how many have not been publicized. Not a huge risk after five months, but a risk nonetheless. Michael Horowitz

[mattumanu]

"If you haven't installed SP3 yet, then be aware that Microsoft offers free technical support for installing it until April 14, 2009. "

If this is true, then a Microsoft technician lied to me on the phone and told me I'd have to pay for service.

[mhinnewyork]

When I had a problem installing IE7, Microsoft gave me the run-around too when I requested their free tech support. In my case the problem was with Windows Update installing IE7 and they deemed that a Windows Update problem rather than an IE7 problem. The good news is that Microsoft also offers free tech support for Windows Update and I have had good experiences the few times I used it. If you are having a problem installing SP3, try approaching it as Windows Update problem. Michael Horowitz

[KevinK]

All of my machines installed it automatically over the last few weeks as Microsoft seems to be pushing it to consumers in auto update at this point.. I've had absolutely no problems and had no opportunity to back up anything in advance of the installs.

[mhinnewyork]

Millions of people have no problems with SP3, literally millions I'm sure. That however, doesn't mean that installing it is the right approach for everyone. Not everyone needs or cares about defensive computing. Michael Horowitz

[mhinnewyork]

It was pointed out to me that in the original copy of this posting my point was not as clear as it should have been. I re-wrote the introductory paragraphs to, hopefully, make things clearer. Sorry. Michael Horowitz

[PDBTech]

Hey Mike Horowitz keep up the good work, at least you spend some time for me by testing the SPs, I've thought twice about installing the new SP3 and I've read some about it as well. Thanks.

PDB Tech

[captmom]

My husband allowed windows updat to download sp3 and our desktop computer has crashed. It won't stay up unless it is in safe mode. It has messed up drivers so back we can't figure out how many or which exactly ones that need to be fixed. Looking at maybe reloading the XP system. Trying to avoid having to do that. Any one know of any "how to fix sp3 screw ups?" info anywhere????? Have talked to many people this week as well who's computer crashed and having driver problems because of sp3 too. We have dumped sp3 off of our system but now we have to repair the damage. So again, any help out there????

[Lerianis]

I seriously doubt that SP3 is the cause of your 'driver issues'. I was reading something on Tom's Hardware..... the fact of the matter is that SP3 doesn't have problems for the 99.9% of the people out there installing it. Not one problem. If you are having problems, Microsoft has traced many of them back to problems with installation packages for other software programs messing or conflicting with SP3's installation.... something that you should get on the people who made that software because nothing needs to interfere, not even Norton or another system security product, with Service Pack installations.

[irishdog7]

Just rebounded from a major catastrophe since install, desktop has been real sluggish and unstable since install on 9/7 . Yesterday I thought the big one came after a reboot. Reboot in safemode Rolled back to before install, all systems GO.

[peterwol]

I accepted the SP3 install, and it prevents my second screen, a wide 21 inch Samsung, from being rotated: I like to use a second screen to show a full page at about 120% normal size for comfort.
Checked at the ATI web site driver FAQ, and they say, - yes that's right , SP3 prevents display rotation. They don't offer a fix, just tell us to remove SP3 as a work-around the bug!

I still also use Windows 2000, by the way - probably the best desk-top Windows ever produced for reliability. MIcrosoft will some day have to build a new, clean Windows from scratch, or die, surely. There is no real need for users to accept all the problems which arise from weird dependencies: Windows is now too fragile.

[messcook]

SP3 sitting in task bar from Auto Updates 2mos. still afraid to install.....

[messcook]

SP3 sitting in task bar from Auto Updates 2mos. still afraid to install.....

[irishdog7]

Just rebounded from a major catastrophe since install, desktop has been real sluggish and unstable since SP3 install on 9/7 . Yesterday I thought the big one came after a reboot. had to reboot in safemode and Rolled back to before install, all systems GO.

[ex_f15_ais]

I have an IBuyPower tower using an AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual 4600+ 2.4GHz on on the Asus MB that was also brought into question during the initial SP3 failure. Adding to that, I am using a retail WinXP SP2. I have tried installing SP3 four times already with the same reboot problem. I've even tried the disable IntelPPM process (not found in registry; IntelPPM.DLL not loaded), BIOS updates, etc. Basically, I've tried every fix I can find...............still sitting with SP2 (I imaged the HDD after the first failure--45 minutes verses 5 hours). So I am completely flummoxed........suggestions??????

[Rom_Alexis]

... Do not install Service Pack 3 on systems with AMD chips unless a special hotfix has been applied first. This hotfix needs to be applied before SP3, otherwise your system may get stuck in a loop and never start. Go here>>> http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/windows-xp-sp3-amd-stop-0x0000007E.html for the AMD Windows XP SP3 hotfix. The file will download directly from Microsoft's servers - you may want to shorten the file name... Just found it in this site.. http://www.itworld.com/windows-xp-sp3-what-you-should-know-080507 .. I have a Phenom AMD Machine And I'm not very comfortable updating the SP3 too. And besides I might upgrade to Windows 7 but still not sure if it's worth it.

[dfwguy_2005]

Yet another soul with crash and reboot issues when trying to install SP3.. Started with reboot issues and down graded to safe modes and crashes... I can now send my new book to the publishers.. Slected profanity words to use with SP3.

[med919]

I am also one of those quite happy with SP2 for the time being, and still waiting for the "right" time to install SP3.

To me the central question regarding waiting longer or installing SP3 is mostly related to the impossibility to perform any further Windows updates without upgrading to SP3 first.
I turned off automatic updates to avoid an automatic upgrade to SP3 and when I try to manually update Windows I am prompted to install SP3. Since I am still waiting to do so, in my understanding, the current pre-SP3 stage leaves my computer in a vulnerable state and means a lack of OS support.

My questions are: Is without the continuing Windows updates safe to use XP?
Or is there a way to obtain other Windows updates without SP3?

I have sp3 v 3264 installed. IE8 install calls for manual load of KB932823, but SP3 is newer. Can't get any further with install of IE8.
Can't uninstall SP3 because it says it can't find a file but doesn't stipulate?

Can you help?

Thanks

Kev

[Rom_Alexis]

"Do not install Service Pack 3 on systems with AMD chips unless a special hotfix has been applied first. This hotfix needs to be applied before SP3, otherwise your system may get stuck in a loop and never start. Click here >> http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/windows-xp-sp3-amd-stop-0x0000007E.html for the AMD Windows XP SP3 hotfix. The file will download directly from Microsoft's servers - you may want to shorten the file name.