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October 15, 2009 1:45 PM PDT

Windows 7 improvements to help audio recording

by Matt Rosoff
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Most of the audio engineers I've met--both home and professional--are Mac people, and Avid's ProTools running on a Mac is often cited as the industry standard. But there are Windows loyalists out there.

In late 2007 I took an introductory audio production class taught by David Huber (who wrote one of the bibles on the subject, "Modern Recording Techniques") and Scott Colburn (who has produced albums by The Arcade Fire, Animal Collective, and Sun City Girls, among many others). Both of them used Nuendo from Steinberg (which is basically the upmarket version of Cubase) as their primary digital audio workstation (DAW), and they ran it on a Windows PC.

Windows 7 should offer better performance for digital audio than Vista.

A Windows XP PC, that is. Both were very diplomatic when discussing software and other gear, but they expressed pretty serious reservations about Vista. Microsoft made a ton of changes in Vista that were supposed to improve performance, including moving certain audio capabilities out of the kernel, but these experts--whose livelihood depends on having a high-performing DAW--thought it was too untested and unknown.

Although they didn't say so, I imagine that the driver incompatibilities reported with other hardware could have been an absolute nightmare with all the gear in a professional recording rig. There were also reports of unstable MIDI timing, drop-outs, latency, and other problems (many of which were addressed by Service Pack 1). They weren't alone: the general advice for audio engineers on Windows was stick with XP. (If anybody had a success story using Vista to build a DAW, I'd love to hear about it in comments.)

In case you haven't heard, Microsoft releases a new version of Windows next week. I've been using the RTM version for a few weeks now and find it far more stable and inviting than Vista was at launch. (Although a colleague did uncover a gnarly power-management problem in Media Center related to a faulty audio driver.) Now, some of the audio experts are starting to weigh in, and it looks like the work Microsoft did to improve performance and compatibility with Windows 7 are paying off in the world of audio production.

Noel Borthwick, the chief technical officer for Cakewalk--which makes a wide variety of audio software for Windows, including the Sonar DAW line--has posted a blog entry describing how the new OS should dramatically reduce latency, particularly on x64 multicore processors. (Borthwick also went into more obsessive detail on Peter Kirn's Create Digital Music blog.) His conclusion: "I will be building a new DAW soon and Windows 7 X64 will be my OS of choice."

The long and short of it? If you're building a new recording system, Windows 7 sounds like a more reasonable choice than Vista. But if you've got a system that's already working well, don't mess with it--there still might be driver incompatibilities with older gear, and upgrades from Windows XP require a clean install, meaning your old settings will be lost and you'll have to reinstall your apps.

Correction, 2:34 PDT: This post incorrectly characterized the audio-related changes that Microsoft made in Windows Vista. Microsoft moved certain audio functions out of the kernel and into the user stack.

Matt Rosoff is an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, where he covers Microsoft's consumer products and corporate news. He's written about the technology industry since 1995, and reviewed the first Rio MP3 player for CNET.com in 1998. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mattrosoff.

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by Mr. Dee October 15, 2009 2:10 PM PDT
Actually, if use the free Windows Easy Transfer utility included on the Windows 7 DVD to back up your personal files and "settings", which applications store in the AppsData folder, and restore on your Windows 7 installation, you should have those settings back on Window 7 without any problems.
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by loebpaul October 15, 2009 2:21 PM PDT
For the past couple years, I have been running Pro Tools 7 and 8, and Ableton Live 7 and 8 on Vista with no problems.
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by MattRosoff October 15, 2009 2:38 PM PDT
Good to know, thanks for that. Curious about the other gear you've got in the chain.
by ducttape36 October 16, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
I just finished recording an album on the cheap using windows 7 and adobe audition.
by starflyer88 October 16, 2009 4:42 PM PDT
I use Cubase on Vista64 and get only about 8ms latency through my M-Audio USB connections and ASIO driver. I'm very satisfied with that. If I keep to the 'name' brands, I haven't had any compatibility problems with add-ons and whatnot.. However, downloading free VSTs and other older apps has caused squirrley behavior that's confounded Cubase. I guess that's what you get for free though...
by ducttape36 November 4, 2009 11:10 AM PST
p.s. the album i made is free if anyone wants to listen. www.thejobz.net
by dechah October 15, 2009 2:23 PM PDT
From the article "...including moving certain audio capabilities into the kernel", this is incorrect as far as I am aware. The new audio model in Vista moved most of the audio subsystem out of the kernel and into the user space. The aim for doing this was to produce low latency and glitch resistant audio performance in Windows. The problem with Vista, at least in its infancy post release, was a lack of 100% compatible third party drivers for many of the most popular audio hardware used in Windows machines. This problem is abating as more and more third party drivers come onto the market, and Windows 7 thereby reaps the benefits from the initial pain caused by Vista's necessary departure from the old audio model used in XP and its predecessors.
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by MattRosoff October 15, 2009 2:28 PM PDT
You are absolutely correct, that was a typing error and will be corrected ASAP.
by blafouille October 15, 2009 2:28 PM PDT
most of the audio engineers are Mac because they do not no computing....Actually you cannot be audio engineer without engineer computing...And it is not about the knowledge of some softwares....
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by ckh1272 October 16, 2009 4:08 AM PDT
"by blafouille October 15, 2009 2:28 PM PDT
most of the audio engineers are Mac because they do not no computing."

Don't believe everything you hear or read. For the most part, that simply is not true unless you can prove otherwise. I have known plenty of people who use both platforms for recording, mastering, sequencing, etc. Based on your logic, I guess they don't know about either one hardware wise.
by baconstang October 15, 2009 2:28 PM PDT
W7 may make some inroads in pro recording, but it will take years. Mostly, XP users may eventually make the switch, but it's hard to imagine Mac based users switching over. The things that to be changed for that are extensive. And besides, it's not like Macs are on the way out, quite the opposite.
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by Gold_Storm_Mac October 15, 2009 2:35 PM PDT
mac os x has very popular audio software and many techs like core audio.
by 1g2j October 15, 2009 7:51 PM PDT
Input Monitoring caught different pro audio OEMs off guard. Majority of the software programs and hardware drivers that was written for XP had to be rewritten or issuing patches to enable Input Monitoring on Vista so the hardware can properly playback the audio. Example, thats why in XP with a standard audio card you can plug a cheap mic into the computer and can hear the sound through the same audio card line out. In Vista you can not do that by default. These OEMs was not ready for the major changes in Vista including this simple feature.
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ProTools in my opinion the only program that was ready for the Vista changes due to Avid tight lock down and intergration of the hardware and software. After Vista SP1, I started noticing more companies starting to play catch up. Too many companies was relying on XP. Don't get me wrong Vista does do a better job at reducing the latentcy. Vista x64 works fine with powerful enough hardware.
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by peterakirn October 16, 2009 1:46 PM PDT
Some companies may have been playing catch-up, but Avid/Digidesign/M-Audio were some of the last to deliver Vista support. It worked when it was shipped and I understand why this can take a while, but claiming Avid were first makes no sense. Cakewalk and FL Studio were, not surprisingly given they're both Windows-only, among the first on the software side, and my recollection is that Edirol/Roland, RME, MOTU and others were the first that (on my systems) delivered properly working drivers. I also had Ableton working successfully reasonably quickly.

There was a general and understandable reluctance by audio vendors to work on compatibility when major PC OEMs and video suppliers -- all shipping drivers that could interfere with audio work -- hadn't delivered.

If Vista x64 works, generally so will x32. Aside from memory addressing, they're nearly identical in most respects under the hood.
by dan2600 October 16, 2009 6:59 AM PDT
I don't see why this has anything to do with OSes. The problem is (as you stated) the 3rd party manufactures being to lazy to produce quality drivers. The Vista RC was avalible as is the Windows 7 RC to manufactures for over a year...This time MS was on everyones butt because of wht happened with Vista (lazy 3rd parties making Mircosoft look bad). I primarliary use Ableton...which doesn't really use any drivers other then the standard ASIO, and All i can say is that from XP to Vista to 7 Latancey is lower and lower and lower (and this is using the same 6 year old machine). The only real complaint I can give about windows 7 is that Internal Midi routing is still something that leaves much to be desired in comparison to mac.
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by dk jones October 16, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
Cakewalk only builds for Windows. There are actually more DAWs that are cross/dual platform or are Mac only. I've been using MOTU Digital Performer w/ MOTU 828 MKii & MIDI Timepiece AV for several years on Mac & only w/ Apple's switch to Intel Processors did they begin to write for Windows. Steinberg's Cubase, MOTU's Digital Performer, Digidesign's Protools(way over-priced & extremely proprietary--don't lose that dongle!! or try another interface or software DAW or record to video w/ spending another $1,000.00!!) & most of the other widely used Pro DAWs are written for Mac & Windows.

This is good news for a couple of my friends w/ working studios that run Cakewalk's Sonar.

@ blafouille--btw, if one is using a computer to perform tasks/do work, isn't that computing? or is running a recording studio that charges $150.00/hr-$300.00+/hour not work? you can't be an audio engineer w/ understanding audio & how to put hardware/software in a signal chain & tweak it to achieve the desired results. i started out 30 years ago doing live sound, then got into some bands & started working w/ 4-trk. analog to record us & others, then moved as the technology(& my wallet allowed) into hard-disk stand-alone systems & now computer based DAWs. i even have a Yamaha AW16g for live 8-trk recording of bands & events for when i do multi-cam video shoots. the computer platform one uses is a choice--Windows or Mac. use whatever you like & be happy, find a groove & make a joyful noise.
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by peterakirn October 16, 2009 1:26 PM PDT
For what it's worth, I find readers on createdigitalmusic - including seasoned pros - come much closer to half and half Mac and Windows than they do overwhelmingly Mac with some Windows loyalist holdouts.

As for the questions about whether this is an OS issue, it certainly is in part. Changes to both the graphics and audio subsystems in Vista necessitated changes on all fronts. Drivers were initially out of sync, it's true, but Microsoft delivered their own share of updates, including some pretty significant fixes that addressed USB performance (rolled out in the leadup to SP1) and MIDI. To a lesser extent but certainly also significant, there were changes that necessitated work by application developers.

No one was especially happy with the Vista transition, though I use Vista on one of my main machines for production. It's encouraging that Microsoft is getting more success with Windows 7. At the same time, these are not unrelated to issues you see on other operating systems.
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by auramac October 20, 2009 6:52 PM PDT
Blabba Blooey- apparently people who think Mac users don't "no computing" don't know spelling. Most musicians that I "know" simply can't tolerate the environment that is Windows, and find the Mac to be so much more elegant, reliable, and low-maintenance. There's also an aesthetic at work that recognizes innovation and beauty.
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by cjamc October 23, 2009 6:14 PM PDT
I personally use Pro tools M- Powered on a Vista machine without any problems. Actually in some ways, Memory being one it's better than xp. With service pack 2 i get 4 Gigs instead or 3. As far as mac's are concerned, they really are designed around audio, and video production on their higher end. But IMac's are not the best audio DAW machines at all. The other end of the comparison is PC's are designed how ever YOU want them to be, basically from dirt cheap to unbelievable and that causes a problem with driver's hardware and DAW's to be compatible with the majority of them. Mac's are Mac's just which one your willing to pay for is the question. A G5 for serious audio production will run you 9 -10 thousand dollars. Go on apple and price one.
Sorry for rambling
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About Digital Noise: Music and Tech

Matt Rosoff is an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, where he covers Microsoft's consumer products and corporate news. He's written about the technology industry since 1995 and reviewed the first Rio MP3 player for CNET.com in 1998. He's also a bass guitarist and an avid collector (and digitizer) of LP records. DISCLAIMER: This blog contains the personal opinions of the author and does not necessarily represent the opinions of his employers or of CNET Networks. As an IT industry analyst, the author occasionally agrees to nondisclosure agreements from Microsoft or other companies, and he will not violate the terms of such agreements on this blog.

He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET.

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