A 'post-x86 world'? Preposterous!
I honestly don't know whether Om Malik's blog site, GigaOM, is intended to be informative or merely entertaining. I pointed out a previous example of the overwrought rhetoric that permeates that site last September (in the context of Comcast's then-new usage cap policy), but generally, I try to ignore the nonsense there for the same reasons that I ignore talk radio.
But like it or not, GigaOM is widely read, and sometimes when a post there bears directly on a market that's important to me, I can't bear to let it go. This is one of those times.
On Thursday, a GigaOM staffer wrote a piece titled "Can Intel Thrive in a Post x86 World?"
A slide from Fred Weber's keynote presentation at Microprocessor Forum 2003 showing how x86 will evolve into systems from big servers down to handheld consumer devices.
(Credit: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.)The headline is preposterous from beginning to end. It has two implications just in the eight words of the title: that Intel's ability to "thrive" faces any imminent threats, and that the importance of the x86 architecture is declining.
In January, the same staffer wrote a piece titled "Netbooks and the Death of x86 Computing" which reached the fantastic conclusion that Netbooks would "destroy the hegemony of x86 machines for personal computing."
Well, as I pointed out just a few weeks later (in "The Netbook is dead. Long live the notebook!"), when the Netbook phenomenon ran up against the dominance of Intel and Microsoft in the PC market, it was the Netbook that died instead. Even at a $300 price point, people still want full PC compatibility.
Yes, there are companies like Freescale (the subject of the January post on GigaOM) and Nvidia that are looking to push the ARM architecture into the Netbook space. But that idea never made much sense, and now that Intel and TSMC are working together to get Intel's Atom x86 core into lower-cost SoC (system on chip) products, the ARM architecture will eventually have to retreat into the shrinking niche for supersmall, supercheap phones and consumer electronics gizmos for which x86 compatibility is of negligible value.
See, we learned a long time ago--those of us who cover this industry professionally, not just as a random assignment for some random blog--that the instruction set architecture (ISA), per se, doesn't matter any more.
The choice of ISA was a big deal in the 1980s and early 1990s, when the extra complexity of an x86 instruction decoder was a large fraction of the total complexity of a microprocessor. That's where the conflict between RISC and CISC came from.
But by the turn of the century, ISA complexity was almost a dead issue, and that coffin's final nail was pounded in by the keynote speech of then-Advanced Micro Devices CTO Fred Weber at Microprocessor Forum 2003, an event I had the honor of hosting.
In his talk, "Towards Instruction Set Consolidation," Weber made a simple point: "Technology has passed the point where instruction set costs are at all relevant."
Even then, three generations of process technology ago, the "x86 penalty" was down to a couple square millimeters of silicon. Today, the comparable figure is about 0.25 square millimeters. Not zero, certainly, but not a significant concern for chips that are a hundred times larger.
In short, ARM chips aren't cheaper or more power-efficient because of their instruction sets; they're like that because they're designed to be. And anything that an ARM chip can do to save cost or power can also be done by an x86 chip.
So there can't ever be a time when the world moves beyond x86. That's 1980s thinking, just plain ignorance of what may be the most important trend in the microprocessor industry.
The rest of Thursday's GigaOM post is a hopelessly self-contradictory muddle that fails to reach any clear conclusions. I'll just quote one more line near the end: "But the PC will be just one small (and shrinking) battleground to keep x86 relevant, amid a more mobile, visual, and power-sensitive world."
Current economic woes aside, the PC market is hardly shrinking. You know what's shrinking? The PC! As the PC shrinks, the PC market will grow. The MID (mobile Internet device) market isn't much to speak of right now, for example, but once MID makers figure out what to build, MIDs will become more popular.
And seriously, is anyone really not clear on the fact that the Apple iPhone is a computer? It isn't an embedded system. An embedded system is one in which the presence of a microprocessor is functionally irrelevant to the user. When a gizmo exposes its programmability to the user, it's a computer.
What else is the App Store but the visible manifestation of the iPhone's programmability?
Now, ARM isn't dead yet. The iPhone uses an ARM processor because there's no x86 processor that would work as well in that system. ARM processors will probably see at least two more generations in cell phones just because there's so much ARM-based software out there (including all the software on the App Store).
But somewhere around 2012, we're going to see x86 chips poking into that space. The value of instruction set compatibility with the PC market will persuade developers of new cell phone platforms to go with x86 chips, and eventually even established systems like the iPhone will switch over.
So not only are x86 chips selling into a growing PC market, they'll eventually start eating into ARM's own strongholds. That can't be bad for Intel.
And that's why the GigaOM piece was preposterous.
Peter N. Glaskowsky is a computer architect in Silicon Valley and a technology analyst for the Envisioneering Group. He has designed chip- and board-level products in the defense and computer industries, managed design teams, and served as editor in chief of the industry newsletter "Microprocessor Report." He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. 





I concur with Pishkado. This one statement red flagged itslef as soon as I got to the period. What? Ntohing beyond x86? Talk about perposterous. Just about anything from the past 100 years will demonstrate that advancements will always be made in some shape or form, including technological ones beyond x86 archtiecture.
As applications move onto the web, and more cloud based storage comes online, the level of abstraction at which these applications and services run increases. Additionally, the ability to view these services and interact with them on a mobile device is simply an issue of software that executes on that device. So it all comes down to how people will view the internet. In terms of devices, I think it will be up to ODMs and OEMs to decide which architecture is more relevant in the mobile sector, and at the moment there is one very clear winner.
Although I agree with you that anything that ARM partners can do to improve power, area etc. is also something Intel can do, there are certain aspects of an overall microprocessor architecture (not merely the ISA) that work in favour of ARM, irrespective of these process tricks. These certain architectural aspects feed into the micro architecture of an ARM CPU to make it more efficient for use at the mobile end of the scale. Atom will always suffer because - in acknowledgement to the efficiencies of a RISC design for mobile computing - Intel has had to attach a humungous CISC X86 decoder onto the front end in order to allow X86 to execute on the RISC core they have on the back end. This will always be required, and is something that becomes a mill stone around their efforts to penetrate this space with their ISA.
So architecture is important when fitting a solution to a market, and Intel will always carry around baggage that ARM will never have. Once the software story is sorted out, ARM will be a more compelling solution going into the future, and it is also why it is the de-facto solution in the present day.
Who are Freecell? Do you mean Freescale, the semi conductor foundry/SOC company that spun out of Motorola?
As for the argument itself, the value of x86 compatibility with PCs lies with the compatibility, not the instruction set. I think that's clearly explained in the piece. If I'm wrong about x86's ability to penetrate the markets currently dominated by ARM, we'll see, but I'm not alone in the belief; at least three companies are developing new x86 cores to compete with existing ARM designs.
Your third paragraph is unclear. You refer to "aspects of an overall microprocessor architecture (not merely the ISA)" but then you offer, apparently as an example, the "humungous CISC X86 decoder", which is an ISA-specific issue, as if I hadn't just written about why that isn't a big issue any more.
Bottom line, the "baggage" of PC incompatibility is already killing ARM's competitiveness in netbooks, and this problem will start to give x86 an edge in smaller systems as time goes on.
I had several arguments I just didn't have time to address last night. Let me offer one now.
Apple sells a huge variety of iPhone applications through the App Store, all of which are designed to provide significant functionality through a relatively small 320x480-pixel window. Apple's Mac systems support Dashboard, where "widget" apps perform various functions in small windows. Both iPhones and Macs run the Mac OS X operating system, yet Macs can't run iPhone apps. There are several reasons why not, but instruction-set incompatibility is surely one of them. There's a good reason for that incompatibility today, but the reason will go away over time, and inevitably, either x86 or ARM is going to be pushed out of its niche. Which do you really think will win?
In reference to your confusion regarding my statement about Atom and its decoder, the point you missed - and it is the main point of my statement - was that the old X86 architecture necessitates certain micro-architectural decisions to be made in order for it to fit the mobile processor socket being discussed. My statement to you is that those design decisions make any X86 based processor sub-optimal for that space. It is an architectural issue, it is an ISA issue, and it will be the very thing that puts people off wanting to use atom, if the choice was between atom and a more adept mobile processor architecture. Power is one of the biggest things mobile device manufacturers care about.
Intel has neutralised any silicon process advantage it had, by outsourcing manufacture to TSMC. Power will only get worse - not better - when intel moves to manufacturing atom through TSMC. Granted, they'll be able to produce SoCs, but their architectural disadvantages (in the baggage they must carry from X86 days) will make them a second-fiddle choice in the bill of materials race.
Ultimately, in software, PC compatibility becomes even less important as software moves out of the local processing realm and into the realm of distributed computing on the move. Does this mean that all applications will be cloud based? No, but it means the ones we use on the move most likely will.
Will IBM, et all, stop production and all R & D into said PPC architecture? Doubtful. But I don't deny the usefulness and convenience of the speed of x86, considering I'm on a Core2 box typing this. From what I've seen though, Intel x86 kinda always sucked until the Core architecture series. PIII weakness, P4 heat issues, etc....
Generally, monopolies stifle growth and creativity. I say the more architectures, the better - some new innovation may be just around the corner, and the more people walking the block, the better the chances of finding it.
Innovation comes from microarchitecture and, increasingly, from system architecture. I have a list of dozens of changes I expect to see in system architecture in coming years. None of them depend on any particular instruction set. ISA convergence is a foregone conclusion at this point.
I think the PC industry is due for a shakeup. Nowadays the x86 architecture is more a hindrance than a help. It's code is pretty much obsolete and in bad need of a makeover. as long as we keep a death grip on the x86 platform's instruction set, we will never be able to take full advantage of the full potential of current chip technology. Like the gas powered automobile, it has become a dinosaur which we are stuck with until someone has the stones to actually design and market something better. It may take years or decades, but I guarantee you, the x86 architecture will be replaced and it may not be nearly as long as one would think.
You even specifically say that instruction-set convergence helped to power the dominance of the IBM PC platform. Why would the x86 instruction set "go the way of the dinosaurs"? You just don't say, and that conclusion is directly opposed to your own supporting arguments.
If you'd care to explain why the x86 architecture is a "hindrance" or "obsolete" or a "dinosaur" I'd be happy to listen, but so far, you're only supporting my side of this discussion.
Absolutely, the sooner we do away with the archaic monstrosity that is x86, the better.
I don't think the x86 instruction set is good, never mind ideal, but it's become the low-friction way to write software.
A. That is the definition of a wheel: "A wheel is a circular device that is capable of rotating on its axis, facilitating movement or transportation whilst supporting a load (mass), or performing labour in machines."
B. But to address the point I believe you were trying to make, wheels are still round because the laws of physics justifies them as being optimal.
Instruction sets and processors are a whole different story.
Now, I doubt that Netbooks are going to be the single changing factor, but that's no reason to say x86 will live forever.
For these products, that quarter of a square millimeter of silicon for an x86 decoder is larger than the whole core.
As Moore's Law brings down these overhead costs of x86 compatibility, the use of x86 will expand into other markets that were previously not reachable.
Anyway, what I was saying about "not useful" was in the specific context of "computing devices", specifically "personal computing devices." And there is no possible way to say that a non-x86 architecture is an advantage in that market.
I just feel that anything portable, with a screen should have an optical drive in it.
That's my opinion of what "killed" the netbook. At least for me.
The platform isn't what's so important, it's what it can do that's important.
The one exception here is DVD and Blu-ray movies, which are still best distributed on optical media, and even though it might be more convenient to copy them to disk for viewing, that generally isn't authorized by the licensing terms. (Something that ought to change, if you ask me.) So an optical drive is still useful for watching movies. I don't do that much, but some people do, and I suppose they, like you, would prefer a small notebook with an optical drive. But I don't think that "any" portable computer should have one. For many people, the size and fragility of an optical drive are problems that outweigh the benefits.
PowerPC, ARM, and the like are more elegant designs and will eventually take their place in embedded and mobile processing respectively.
We have x86 but we also have MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SpeedStep (EIST), Intel 64/x64-64, XD bit, TXT, VT, Hyper-Threading, Turbo Boost, QPI, Smart Cache, and HD Boost (just to name a few things)
Also, if those low-power "tricks" are so easy to apply to the Atom, why haven't they? The Atom still uses many times more power than high-end ARMs.
I suspect Atom is probably a controversial product within Intel. They would much rather sell Nehalems instead. Low-margin products like the Atom is not a good match for expensive fabs, so now they are outsourcing production of them to TSMC. But if they are not using their fab advantage, there is only backwards compatibility to fall back on, and that may not be enough.
1. Cloud computing will take over
2. Wintel will always be the dominant platform
If cloud computing does take over, it doesn't matter whether you're on Windows on x86, or Linux on ARM, does it?
I have to disagree. In order for Intel and x86 to be successful in the smartphone market, there needs to be a reasonable need to run the PC operating system and programs on a 3 inch screen. Otherwise, x86 compatibility is meaningless in a market where ARM-based mobile operating systems already dominate. The x86 instruction set and traditional Windows has no inherent advantage in the smartphone market. Apple has shown that a mobile operating system, even one based on a desktop core, needs a different user interface and application design.
To Peter?s point that instruction sets are not relevant, why must x86 win in the end? There are only three x86 vendors and only one of those is both financially healthy and shipping significant volume. While there are a few hundred million x86 processor shipped every year, there are many hundreds of millions of ARM-based designs in cell phone, microcontrollers, and the like shipped every year (over 10 billion since 1990) from many different companies, large and small, and in between. ARM is not some obscure processor, and it is used by many innovative companies (according to ARM, 60 partner companies were at MWC'09). For Intel (or AMD for that matter) to take x86 into cell phones is proof that if your only (successful) tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Intel?s agreement with TSMC to offer an Atom-based (Intel?s lowest end, lowest power x86 core) hard core for SoC design is Intel?s recognition that it needs to tap into the ARM ecosystem. The same ecosystem it failed to win over with XScale. Details of the agreement are still meager, but I?m concerned because it allows Intel to vet who and what will use the Atom core. That is not open enough for true innovation and competition.
Of course, these are rational arguments and the market is not always rational. If it was, x86 would not have beaten out 68K and Z8000 in the 16-bit instruction set wars.
It's valuable to run x86 code on handhelds because so many little bits and pieces of the code can be shared between handhelds and PCs: multimedia codecs, browser plugins, desktop widgets, development tools, etc.
This kind of commonality also reduces the total effort needed for debugging, interoperability testing, etc., which creates another kind of value for x86.
When these values exceed the costs of x86 compatibility-- which they did ten years ago in the PC, workstation, server, and laptop markets-- companies put their efforts behind x86. We all knew that the x86 architecture wasn't as good in most technical respects as the 68K architecture, but it was obvious from the day IBM announced the first PC that business issues were more important than technical issues.
I don't see how the Intel-TSMC deal represents an attempt to "tap into the ARM ecosystem". It's an attempt to compete with it, and it's likely to be effective.
I don't think your arguments are rational, but I think it will be entirely rational for many companies to adopt the x86 architecture instead of the ARM architecture for smaller and smaller products over time.
- by sk00n March 18, 2009 7:30 AM PDT
- Lol, man where did You live for last 5 years? I have been bound to the companies dealing with arm, building solutions on arm, conquering the world with arm. What wintel means to somebody who has been bound to arm for few years? Bluescreens on humungus ad screens in big capitals wasting the space and cash of the customers of ad agencies, bluescreens in the atms, bluescreens on the tubes in all known capitals and different public transport means throughout the europe, the microarchitecture so severly constrained they cant move beyond the power consumption of atom (didnt they try? I am afraid they did but with 200 pound of baggage is not easy to be agile), negligible market share in smartphones, portable devices, mp3 players, mobiles, automotive, servers (linux not windows), shall I say more?
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(40 Comments)As to the macos You might not realise that: 1 this is based on linux, 2 the main power behind it is the ui + mechnical design rather than os itself.
As to the software used in automotive if You mean the onboard computer for ignition and fuel injections, You are mostly right, for anything on top from media player, through radio, lcd driver, speakers and multimedia systems+gps You are plainly wrong. Yes they do run on 32bit archs, no its not intel or x86.
And if You knew more so much more about the assembly and possible instruction decoder for both, You wouldnt say 2 square milimiters is the problem (its much bigger area of the wafer definitely).
And few more questions from a geek: why didnt wintel succeed in smartphones and mobiles in general (hint: power issues consumption caused by wierd/crappy/suboptimal micro arch)? why not so successful but important project as xo is running awawy from intel (hint: power issues^)? why theres no important netbooks running on windows (hint: the startbutton takes 0.25 of the screen + power issues)? Whats the volumes of intel sales in personal use devices and whats arms?
And misreading amd presentation is a bad sign of Your general journalist work, what they meant is arch is not important, meaning people will be more and more eager to switch to other things + cloud apps are neither constrained to single arch Which gives a huge yes! to the other archs esp arm.
Please try to realise that intel is trying to defend its base (notebooks+smartphones+servers) with pocketnife while being raided by the hordes of ambidexterous robotic lightsabre operators rather than trying to conquer the market reserved to arm and mostly linux.
I will become an avid reader of Your writings, I suppose.