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August 24, 2009 3:52 PM PDT

Open source, not $19 billion, may be best health care stimulus

by Matt Asay
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The federal economic stimulus package provides $19 billion to upgrade the U.S. health care system to digital records. It's a nice gesture, but the U.S. federal government has already developed a robust medical ERP system that could significantly improve U.S. health care. It's called VistA. It's open source.

It's already paid for.

VistA was developed by the U.S. Veterans Administration and the medical professionals involved in its extensive hospital network. Read: doctors developing software for other doctors.

This bottom-up development effort appears to be working: the VA hospital system consistently delivers superior care at less cost, as noted by ZDNet. As a volunteer at my local VA hospital, I get to see it firsthand.

Better quality health care at a much lower price. What's the punchline?

At first glance, there is none. VistA works, and works well, particularly when packaged and delivered by companies like Medsphere, perhaps the most prominent advocate for the open-source health care ERP system.

Scratch the surface, however, and you quickly run into a major problem with VistA: MUMPS (Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System). MUMPS is the archaic programming language in which VistA was written, and which perpetuates its inflexible architecture.

Though some suggest the specialized knowledge needed to program in MUMPS is a selling point, let's put it this way: in the programming universe filled with PHP, Java, .Net, and other constellations of programmers, MUMPS is like a single Red Dwarf. It's not going anywhere except into oblivion.

There are other open-source answers to the U.S. health care problem, including the federal Connect project and Axial Exchange, which was set up by former Red Hat executives to commercialize these federal efforts. But none is more proven than VistA, which has successfully served U.S. veterans for many years.

One company, Software Revolution, claims that the MUMPS-based VistA code could be converted to Java at a cost of $125 million. If even remotely true, that could well prove to be a much smarter investment than $20 billion in stimulus money. Heck, given how easily billions are being spent in Washington today, $125 million is pocket change.

Open source might prove to be the wrong answer to the health care mess. But given the VA's success with VistA, President Obama should be spending pennies on the stimulus dollar with VistA before he looks elsewhere for solutions. It's already written. By all accounts, it works well.

It just needs to shake the MUMPS out.


Follow me on Twitter @mjasay.

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to The Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mjasay.
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by royrusso August 24, 2009 8:14 PM PDT
Matt, you must be one of those "crazy" people that's putting forth logical arguments at town hall meetings. Don't you know that if you spend less money, you are creating less jobs, and therefore "stimulating" less.

Please keep your sound reasoning and prudent fiscal policy ideas to yourself. We have a recession to fight and billions of tax dollars to take from the evil rich. Oh, the nerve...
Reply to this comment
by ferricoxide August 24, 2009 8:47 PM PDT
Nah, you just make it so that, by spending just as many dollars, you can do more with it (and, yes, I get the irony in your prior statements).
by jaguar717 August 24, 2009 11:01 PM PDT
The issue here is priorities. Cost reduction is a cute window dressing, but it has nothing to do with that (notice that tort reform hasn't been mentioned once by the Chairman).

It's about control, and yet another expansion of the Anointed Ones' power and budgets. This system wouldn't nationalize anything, so it's not part of any "solution".

As a side note, I'm pretty sure I remember the "MUMPS" language from a dailywtf article. Ah yes, there were at least two (hope I can link here):
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS.aspx
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/MUMPS-Madness.aspx
by pentest August 24, 2009 11:26 PM PDT
Since when is someone elected by nearly 200 more electoral votes then his challenger "anointed"? That title belongs to his corrupt and inept predecessor.

Time to pull your head out of Beck's backside and get some fresh air. With all the sponsors fleeing from that pro-violence inciting nutbag it won't be long before he is gone from the airwaves and will be forced to scream his putrid vile from a street corner.
by odubtaig August 25, 2009 3:05 AM PDT
Well, here in the UK there's a better understanding of the difference between efficiency and just being tight-fisted. After all, even after two decades of sliding ever more towards the American way of doing things, with a lot less spending per patient we still have a better life expectancy than you lot.

Here's a tip: when the arguments against healthcare reform revolve around claims that deny my dad had an operation this year (he's 71 on Sunday), that my mum had any treatment for her cancer (it was terminal but she still received treatment at 63), that my 67yo aunt had an appendectomy or that my 69yo uncle doesn't continue to receive follow-up treatment after two heart attacks and a stroke then it's quite clear that there is no argument.

Here's another tip: Stephen Hawing _is_ English and gets _all_ his treatment on the NHS.

I'm just glad to live in a counry where, for all its faults, the healthcare system doesn't yet just leave you to die if you're poor.
by knowledgeblue August 24, 2009 9:19 PM PDT
When is comes to Open Source Healthcare Applications, we really like what the guys over at mdDigest (http://www.mddigest.com/) are creating with their Open Source EMR/Practice Management Solutions. They are also creating a community of developers and interested parties at HealthForge (http://healthforge.org/). This is a refreshing change to some of the older open source applications like VistA!
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by pentest August 24, 2009 11:22 PM PDT
Lisp is an ugly language also, but you can do some amazing things with it that would take much longer in more "popular" languages.

Hopefully they won't move towards PHP, what a nightmare that is! Worse then the tower of babel that is the .net platform and its bastard languages.
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by robtweed August 25, 2009 1:47 AM PDT
What a bizarre article and set of reasoning. You acknowledge that VistA works very well, but apparently there's a serious problem because it's written in MUMPS which...well it appears to be for no other reason than you don't like because you've not heard of it and/or you're not familiar with it. So your reasoning appears to be that if it was rewritten in something else, it will somehow work better. Or perhaps it would work just the same but you'd be happier because now you'd have heard of and be familiar with what it was written in?

Or let's see, let's convert it to Java automatically at a not inconsiderable cost, so, hmmmm it will now work identically but in another language ....and then what? Java will somehow allow it to be onwardly developed in a better way?....but I thought you said it worked very well as it is.

What happened to "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?

What about applying converse reasoning: if languages and databases other than Mumps were somehow so much better, why is VistA, by your own admission, working so well apparently against all the odds? Perhaps, just maybe, because actually Mumps is particularly well suited for the kinds of things that VistA addresses? Now wouldn't such an intriguing possibility be worth seriously investigating?
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by odubtaig August 25, 2009 3:15 AM PDT
Apparently Matt understands maintainability better than you do. Not bad for a business guy. All those COBOL based mainframe systems worked fine for years but when the Y2K problem hit a stupid amount of money had to be spent just to get anyone in who had the vaguest idea of how to rewrite the code. This is the same problem

Healthcare changes all the time, record keeping rules changes and new treatments are developed. This requires the software to be updated and if it's written in some obscure language then it's difficult to find the people to do it which, in itself, defeats the point as only a few select people can work with it with any proficiency.

Might as well have all the records on paper but write them in some obscure Chinese dialect; sure, anyone can use a pen and paper and the language could probably be learned but if you want it handled properly you're getting in someone for whom it's his first language who's preferably also fluent in English and he won't come cheap.
by robtweed August 25, 2009 4:45 AM PDT
But odubtaig, I see no evidence that VistA is suffering from, or has suffered from maintainability issues. On the contrary it appears to have been able to evolve rapidly to meet the changing healthcare requirements and rules, and from what I understand continues to do so.

Like I said, where's the evidence that there's actually a critical problem that needs fixing here?

Anyway, why do you care what it's written in? If it's so clearly been the basis of such a successful solution, don't you think you should be finding out about Mumps rather than complaining because you don't understand it?
by odubtaig August 25, 2009 6:15 AM PDT
You don't by any chance work as a MUMPS programmer do you? Work for a company the bottom line of which depends heavily on it?

This changes nothing about the fact that it's a specialist programming language and most definitely a sellers market where it comes to who the customer depends on. COBOL suffers from no maintainability issues at all so long as you've got a fat wallet to pay the programmer.
by pentest August 25, 2009 8:02 AM PDT
Get your typical Java programmer to rewrite this and it will no longer be stable or useful.


It is obviously maintainable since it has been maintained and extended over many years.
by odubtaig August 25, 2009 10:41 AM PDT
Did you read my last sentence?

I'd also be careful criticising other programmers given the reasons you once stated for avoidinq relational databases. Most programmers in any area are sorely lacking, don't think your, or any other field, is exempt.

I also find it hard to believe that a language that looks like the deformed offspring of COBOL and Prolog is in any way general purpose. Not that this is in any way wrong in its place but if it's an expert system language based on the rules of predicate calculus then people need to stop pretending otherwise.
by JonathanE1701 August 25, 2009 5:26 AM PDT
My wife is a VA doctor and can't stand VISTA. It pales in functionality compared to the proprietary solutions she used in private practice. She also dislikes the shoddy and inefficient care Veterans receive. I support health care reform wholeheartedly, but let's not mislead ourselves into thinking the VA system should be a model for health care at large.
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by pentest August 25, 2009 8:06 AM PDT
Given that the VA tops the list of all categories your comments ring pale. Perhaps if she doesn't like the "shoddy" care, she should look in the mirror?

As a veteran, I have few complaints about the VA system. They are on par with the military system and I have never got any civilian, private care that is any better. The fact that I can go anywhere in the country and if I need to go to the VA hospital they can bring up my records, unlike civilian systems, is a huge plus.
by bhaskargtm August 25, 2009 7:58 AM PDT
Instead of learning (and blogging) about what's good about the technology - and what can be improved (MUMPS, SQL, C and UNIX were all born around 1970, and anything that has been actively evolved over four decades certainly has warts) - Matt's complaint evidently is that he doesn't like a technology that is a de facto standard engine behind most large health care IT systems in the US, not just VistA.

Basically, MUMPS is a back-end workhorse combination programming language and database engine that is highly scalable, robust and parsimonious of computer resources. No, it doesn't run in your browser like Javascript, but that's front end technology. It's the software equivalent of falling off a log to connect your favorite front end to a MUMPS back end. Enterprise scale systems (as opposed to small applications) usually use multiple layers of technology.

There's no shortage of MUMPS programmers - besides, any competent PHP, Perl, Python, BASIC, or C programmer could easily be programming MUMPS within hours. What's more challenging when programming any enterprise scale ERP system (such as VistA) is understanding the software abstractions, the coding conventions, the data relationships, etc. that are part of the culture and expertise of that ERP system. Yes, you can spend $125 million tax payer handout dollars converting 100MB of MUMPS code to 1GB of Java code, but that doesn't make the system any more maintainable because it doesn't simplify the underlying complexity of what it takes to automate a large health care enterprise.

MUMPS is not a one size fits all solution. It does well what it does well, and integrates well with other technologies that do well what they do well.
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by bmehling August 25, 2009 9:40 AM PDT
How about another approach?

Rather than throwing out the baby, why not build on top of the foundation that's served our veterans so well for so many years? I'm not suggesting Universities should create new degrees to begin to train the next generation of MUMPS developers, nor that everyone needs to learn MUMPS.

Medsphere's technologists have looked at this issue for years, in fact since the founding, and established the goal of being able to modernize the core system piece by piece, rather than rip and replace. That's why we've developed a software platform like OVID. This let's us build new applications in Java that tightly integrate with the VistA core. Don't want to write in Java? Fine, build out the necessary APIs as Web Services and hook-up your favorite scripting language.

Over time, applications can be replaced in part or whole as needed, but do not require us to perform a heart transplant everytime a new application (or technology) is desired.

http://tinyurl.com/mz9gse
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by crasch1948 August 25, 2009 4:58 PM PDT
mumps is now widely used where multiple users access the same
databases simultaneously, e.g. banks, stock exchanges, travel
agencies, hospitals

it was and is used for data base oriented applications. yes it is archaic in some respects but it works where other languages fail.
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by JonathanE1701 August 25, 2009 7:00 PM PDT
Which categories? What I know is that using the Vista system, my wife is able to do half the work she was able to do in private practice, because of outdated equipment and poorly trained technicians. I'm happy that your experience has been so good, but as far as I know, listening to her stories every day, the VA is a bureaucratic mess. Your mileage may vary.
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by The_happy_switcher August 25, 2009 10:55 PM PDT
Phew...for a second I thought they meant the other Vista.
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by askrom August 31, 2009 1:37 PM PDT
The $19 million isn't for research, AFAIK. I believe it goes to doctors to help them pay for the transition to the EHR platform of their choice. In other words, the government is not spending on research into new ideas and systems, but rather on lubricating the health care infrastructure so that the new ideas and systems in the marketplace can compete with each other (and with the VA open source system) in a way that leans towards speedier adoption of EHR. In a totally free market, individual doctors simply don't see the value in converting. It is most people's belief, however, that if they all did convert everyone will benefit. The $19b is just to get them over that hump.

So, if I am correct, the initial argument of this article (and the whole argument of the anti-reform posters at the top of this list) is basically pointless.
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by gteichrow September 10, 2009 12:05 PM PDT
What?!?! No mention of Mirth, the open source integration engine?? Do yourself a favor and check it out: www.mirthcorp.com.
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About The Open Road

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to the Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is general manager of the Americas division and vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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