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August 10, 2009 7:35 AM PDT

Forget Twitter. COBOL is where it's at.

by Matt Asay
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All the hipsters in Silicon Valley talk about PHP, Twitter, and Web 2.0. But recent surveys show that kids can't be bothered to use Twitter.

Meanwhile, COBOL, one of the industry's oldest programming languages, still "equates to 80 percent of the world's actively used code," according to Stephen Kelley of Micro Focus.

COBOL? Really?

Yes, really. COBOL keeps chugging because, as John Willis suggests, it continues to power the boring (but essential) software like CICS (Customer Information Control System). Not very sexy, but when you think about life for more than a nanosecond, most of what makes life work is the transportation, finance, health care, etc. systems that don't make waves but do make our lives more efficient.

This is why the hot jobs in the cold economy center on "old" programming languages like Java and .Net. They're not cool. They're essential.

I've grown to love Twitter, but I'm not waiting for it to change the world. My demographic (25- to 45-year-olds working in technology) believes it's changing the world, starting with the ushering in of a new age of Iranian democracy. But as Foreign Policy points out, Twitter does as much to help crush dissidents and spread misinformation as it helps to remedy things.

In other words, it's really no different from the old technology, except that it does a better job getting into the news.

In sum, forget the hype. While we think technology runs at breakneck speed, the reality is that technology adoption does not. It's simply impossible, especially for enterprises, to adopt new technology at the pace at which it is developed and released.

This is why, for example, companies pay Red Hat to make Linux move more slowly with an 18-month release schedule. Innovation is great, but many enterprises prefer to get innovation on the drip.

Even when people, usually consumers, do quickly adopt technology, this is often a sign that it will be dropped quickly, too. Consider MySpace. Once on top of the world, it's now hemorrhaging market share to Facebook, which in turn will likely evaporate in the face of The Next Big Thing.

I suspect that the longer the adoption period for technology, the longer it tends to stick around. If I invest a lot of time and money in an IT purchase, I'm less likely to drop it quickly.

I'm not suggesting that Web scripting languages like PHP aren't big, or that Twitter is irrelevant. I'm just saying that the reality of what sells today is often very different from what gets funded today in Silicon Valley.

Linux is now old hat and safe, which is precisely why the value of Linux skills has risen 50 percent in the job market. The same holds true for open source, generally: now that it's old hat, enterprises can't adopt it fast enough.

If you're looking for funding from customers rather than from VCs, you might want to consider that boring, old technology that keeps the lights on but doesn't light up the sky.


Follow me on Twitter @mjasay.

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to The Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mjasay.
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by DigitalFrog August 10, 2009 8:28 AM PDT
" hot jobs in the cold economy center on "old" programming languages like Java and .Net. " old? these are at least a couple of generations away from COBOL that the article opens with. Interesting timing though, I was cleaning out my garage this weekend and came across a stack of my old Fortran 77 punchcards...
Reply to this comment
by LaTene_Man August 10, 2009 8:30 AM PDT
Heck, AS/400 is still hot in some sectors!
Reply to this comment
by gggg sssss August 10, 2009 2:50 PM PDT
I will see your RPG and raise you one DFU
by calumg89 August 10, 2009 9:03 AM PDT
Am I the only one who thinks comparing COBOL with with PHP is liek comparing apples with oranges, PHP is Web Scripting (As you say) and COBOL is programming.
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by Dalkorian August 10, 2009 12:18 PM PDT
Many of today's script kiddies and API code monkeys have a difficult time telling the difference between scripting and programming.
by gggg sssss August 10, 2009 2:51 PM PDT
Matt is still young. One day he may well grow up.
by wanorris August 12, 2009 6:12 PM PDT
Something like half the public-facing web is written in PHP, including Wikipedia, most major blog engines like WordPress, most of Yahoo.

If your app scales to 100 million users, the alleged differences between "Programming" and "Web Scripting" become much less interesting than the fact that either way you're running highly scalable mission-critical applications.

And I say that as someone who works in large-scale .Net programming, and not as a fan of PHP.
by ashishbitm August 10, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
Does this article ever went through a review.
Matt you need a break. you are Hyper confused and even make us confused
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by scottlewis101 August 10, 2009 10:39 AM PDT
What? Did you even read what you attempted to write?
by slewisma August 10, 2009 9:10 AM PDT
Still more productive in Turbo Pascal and its descendants here than anything since when it comes to making money. Java, Javascript, PHP, C#/.Net have all provided fun, learning and some productivity but they're not paying the bills.
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by MadLyb August 10, 2009 9:53 AM PDT
Bravo, Matt...bravo.

Bright and shiny only pays the bills for Start-ups, and VCs. The rest of us have to take orders, build products, manage inventory, and make sure the bills get paid and no amount of chrome makes the engine run better.
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by AB1100 August 10, 2009 10:00 AM PDT
The main point of the article was to highlight the excessive attention given to new age buzz words - twitter - facebook - web 2.0 ...when in reality most computer based systems that we interact with today are much simpler and more basic and just get the job done without the fuss associated with these silicon valley buzzwords! .. for gods sake more than 80% of humanity doesnt even know where their next meal with com from ..do u think they care about cloud computing changing the world??

I think this article is a much needed self reflection thats desperately needed in Silicon Valley! - which has gotten carried away with its self created sense of the realities and needs of the world!
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by PeterVescuso August 10, 2009 10:05 AM PDT
At Black Duck Software we continuously spider the Internet for information on open source code for our Knowledgebase, and we see much of what Matt mentions, the tried and true languages that are proven and essential are here to stay ? not only COBOL, but also C code which is critical to many applications. But it?s a constantly shifting pool, and it?s natural that as social networking applications and web services continue to proliferate, scripting languages will gain ground. We?re already seeing this trend develop and expect it to continue. Stay tuned for some relevant analysis coming soon based on Black Duck?s Knowledgebase that examines some of these trends.
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by jahf August 10, 2009 10:08 AM PDT
Fixed: "At Black Duck Software we continuously spider the Internet" for places to spam.
by steveoohh August 10, 2009 10:08 AM PDT
I work in IT at an older company that use old billing and provisioning systems. The systems run on mainframes, written is BAL and COBOL. Well, I guess they are, anyway, because in 15 years, I've never seen them. The systems I work on are unix, linux and windows, java(weblogic) , .net. on Oracle databases. They are even moving to open source platforms. There are lot's of interfaces to the old systems using MQ, Tibco, java messaging, even loading text files. The company would love nothing more than transition the old systems and their expensive maintenance contracts to new technologies, but they just haven't been able to. Yeah, I guess there's a ton of COBOL out there, and I even studied it in college, but in 15 years, I've never seen, written, or changed a line of COBOL.
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by scottlewis101 August 10, 2009 10:36 AM PDT
Because it didn't need to be seen, fixed, or modified. It just works.
by gggg sssss August 10, 2009 2:54 PM PDT
again, 15 years is way too young to have an opinion.
by ewsachse August 10, 2009 10:11 AM PDT
Twitter is not a programming language. COBOL is one, and so is the other languages you mentioned - Java and .NET. However, .NET is not a programming language; it is a runtime system, so points off for that one.

Who gives a rats behind about Twitter?
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by alegr August 10, 2009 11:18 AM PDT
I have very strong suspicion that those COBOL systems are migrated to newer technologies as fast as possible. Y2K debacle showed that you don't want to keep dragging until all the COBOL programmers die out or get permanent brain damage.
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by Remo_Williams August 10, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
"strong suspicion" = no real data

If COBOL is running your billing system and your billing system causes you zero issues, you keep it. The problem with COBOL is no one is writing anything *new*, and you can't keep a COBOL maintenance programmer around without work. To a greater extent, the mainframe technology is even better now than Y2K, so I could only imagine what my 15 year old code would be like on modern iron: likely faster, and maybe with some wrappers, even callable from a frontend other than C workstations. It would still process its records faster than anything written in Java or dot-NET, that's a guarantee.
by pentest August 10, 2009 1:36 PM PDT
Y2K had nothing to do with COBOL.

I am surprised no one is taking 2038(I think that is the year) seriously. Lots of embedded devices and legacy software is going to suffer a buffer overflow on UTC since 1970 sometime in that year.
by odubtaig August 11, 2009 5:50 AM PDT
Who says no-one's taking it seriously? That you're not sure when the limit will occur shows how little research you've done into this yourself (it's 3:14:07AM, 19th January 2038). Given how few problems were caused by Y2K, that we have over 28 years and that work has already started on resolving this I'm not overly worried.

Oh, and it won't be a _buffer_ overflow, that's what happens when an attempt is made to store data ouside the memory range allocated to a buffer. This will be an integer overflow as it will simply be a 1 added to a signed 32Bit integer of 7F FF FF FF (2,147,483,647) resulting in 80 00 00 00 which in a signed integer reads as (-2^31) or -2,147,483,648 which will represent 8:45:52PM, 13th December 1901.
by pentest August 11, 2009 5:15 PM PDT
integer overflows are related to buffer overflows and what it will revert to depends entirely on the system. It is a much, much, much worse problem than Y2K. I am surprised you don't understand why.
by odubtaig August 12, 2009 4:04 AM PDT
For the majority of systems it will revert to 13th December 1909 (I just skipped some detail there) and equating an integer overflow to a buffer overflow is an oversimplification as whether an integer overflow will cause a buffer overflow depends entirely on what that integer is used for and a signed integer should not be used in relation to pointers unless something very unusual is required.

I am aware that the scope of the problem is identical to that of the Y2K bug but that the number and variety of systems affected is much greater due to its affecting current, and not just legacy systems. I'm still not overly concerned. There is still plenty of time to deail with this, it's just a matter of investment of resources.
by nachostan August 10, 2009 7:37 PM PDT
anybody that claims Java and .NET are old and that PHP is new doesn't understand programming.

The reason people want Java and .NET coders over PHP is because they are real languages, applications are complex and often require more than just some server side scripting.
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by JigenIII August 10, 2009 9:26 PM PDT
Theory 1: Matt originally started with 2 articles, but later combined them to save time.

Theory 2: Article was actually written by Sarah Palin.
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by ian.waring August 11, 2009 12:13 AM PDT
MicroFocus sell tools to migrate Cobol apps to modern IT platforms. It's probably in their interest to hype up the size of their addressable market. Where does the 80% figure come from?
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by quintesvanaswegen August 11, 2009 1:23 AM PDT
When I saw the title of this article in my RSS reader, i went "what?" So i came here to read it.

The article just seemed a little all over the place. Twitter, then Cobol, then old languages like c#, then myspace and facebook... The article is either not focused or I missed the boat. C# is old? Sure like 10 years, what about c++, thats old. or vb6.0 which still has huge support even though MS has killed it. So we migrate onto the latest and greatest to keep up. But like the other guys have said, a php script aint no program man.

Q
http://quintesvanaswegen.com
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by odubtaig August 11, 2009 5:54 AM PDT
Got to remember Matt isn't a technical person, he's a business guy first and it does read a lot like a non-technical person trying to make sense of such things. What he needs to do is consult with someone on the tech side of things to check his assumptions.
by circuit17 August 20, 2009 3:30 AM PDT
The anti PHP people here clearly don't know much about the language or any software using it beyond basic web pages. They are just regurgitating myths they have read on the internet, or their own prejudices.

I've worked with multiple languages, including Pascal, C, C++, Java, Perl, PHP and a little bit of C#.

Of these my favourites are C++ and C. C++ gets top slot.

PHP is efficient and easy to use, has overall good syntax (being seemingly based on C syntax this is no surprise,) and as of PHP 5 allows proper object oriented programming (PHP 4 offered classes but without private and protected variables, which isn't really the same at all.)

Real programs can be written in Perl, Python, PHP and any other "scripting" language which has a similar level of maturity. The majority of PHP code I write is properly object oriented & modular and generally has little at all to do with output on a web page. I deal with HTML output maybe 5% of the time, if that.

Given a choice between PHP and Java, I choose PHP for ease of use. It's just easier (for me) to write good well structured code using the PHP syntax.

I have seen crappy "script" style code done in Java. I have seen crappy code which doesn't amount to "real" programming in every language I have worked with. Some of the worst code I have ever seen has been in Java and C.

I used to hate Java because 10 years ago it was a lousy and horribly inefficient language (based on comparisons between the same code written in Java and PHP at the time, so it would have fared even worse against a "real" language such as C, C++ or Cobol.) I'm growing up a little now and realising that I don't have enough recent experience with it to be pronouncing judgements.

We all need to learn to equate bad code with bad programmers and not assume a bad programming language.

after all, you can write "web scripts" in C if you want to. :)
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About The Open Road

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to the Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is general manager of the Americas division and vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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