Red Hat's Fedora 11: So easy you'll forget it's Linux
Red Hat has taken heat over the past few years for allegedly neglecting the personal computer in favor of more profitable enterprise servers. It's a fair critique: Red Hat is an enterprise software company, a decision it made years ago, and to good effect.
But anyone thinking that Red Hat has somehow forgotten consumer markets in its rush to win the enterprise need only try the final release of Fedora 11, its community-focused operating system for desktops and laptops. I've been evaluating Fedora 11 for the past week and find it polished and professional while meeting or beating Windows in key performance areas.
Reading through Fedora 11's feature list, the geek in you may get giddy seeing the use of ext4 as the default file system. Not me. I don't care about the underpinnings of the operating system. I just want it to work.
This is, in fact, Fedora 11's biggest selling point: it just works. And fast, too: from powering on to logging in takes 20 seconds or less. Beat that, Windows!
(Ironically, if Windows hopes to catch Linux in boot-up performance, it's going to have to turn to Linux, like DeviceVM's Splashtop, for help.)
This, however, is an experience I've been having with several Linux distributions, including Moblin Beta 2, Ubuntu 9.04 Netbook Remix (reviewed here), and OpenSUSE 11.1. While none is perfect, the same is true of my preferred Mac OS X and Windows (Vista or XP). They all work, with little or no fiddling required.
In fact, as an experiment I've been leaving my Linux-based Netbook around the house and have given my children and wife free rein to use it whenever and however they want. My wife looks up actors on IMDB. My daughter writes a school paper. Not one of them has struggled to perform these basic tasks, set up the wireless, etc. Everything just works, and works in a way very familiar to a Mac or Windows user.
This is the state of "desktop" Linux today: it really has nothing left to prove. It took years to become user friendly, but it has arrived, helped along by the world's move to browser-based computing. At this point, the only thing that Fedora and the other Linux distributions can do is embrace and extend the Windows or Mac computing experience, because they've largely matched them (especially Windows).
Perhaps it's not surprising, then, that Ubuntu's Mark Shuttleworth has targeted the Mac as the "desktop" operating system to beat, with plans to do just that.
In fact, my only real complaint with Fedora 11 is that it doesn't yet have a Netbook-focused "spin." I'm not alone in seeking a "Fedora Netbook Remix," but Fedora Mini, as it's called, is not yet ready for prime time.
In the meantime, yes, Fedora 11 provides support for cross-compiling Windows applications directly on Fedora Linux using the MinGW environment, and yes it provides the latest and greatest in open-source software like Firefox 3.1 for Web browsing.
Just don't expect it to be weird/geeky anymore. Those days for the Linux "desktop" are gone. It still needs some spit and polish but, again, so does Windows. The Mac is the closest any 'desktop' operating system gets to being both beautiful and super user friendly. Linux, however, if Fedora 11 is any indication, isn't far behind.
Follow me on Twitter @mjasay.
Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to The Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mjasay. 
However, there are still a couple of things that need to be worked on, and the primary thing is going to be audio and support for 3rd party, closed-source applications.
It will be intresting to see how the latter will be addressed: experience from the server world shows that, generally, interoperability with 3rd party proprietary application is relegated into the "supported Linux" niche: which exists for the server but has yet to be seen, massively, for the desktop.
If any desktop Linux wants to capture the 3rd party developers, it needs to be more static as a target to program for. This is why RHEL is so successful in the enterprise.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?CS=19&kc=6VAFF&oc=dncwzl1&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=566643&acd=10495476-1260291-
This is an AWESOME deal and, when you buy a system with Linux pre-installed and tested, you avoid the types of issues you bring up.
1. Open Firefox
2. Navigate to a site I know has flash (I use Strongblade.com)
3. When the "Install Plug-ins" bar comes up along the top of the page I click the button
4. I select the Adobe Flash Player
5. I restart Firefox, I am done at this point. No .exe, no navigating to Adobe every time I set up a system.
I've gotten everything running on my systems without needing the terminal once. For my iPod I have a choice of running Rhythmbox, Amarok, Banshee, Songbird or more. I am not stuck with iTunes and whatever else they want to bundle with it and cram down my throat.
Installing or updating my system (ALL apps.. not just the Microsoft or Apple ones) I simpler too and doesn't require all these applications "phoning home" and using up resources/bandwidth until they are done delivering all my information (good luck Googling to find out what all they are sending and even more luck VERIFYING that it is *all* they are sending)
1. Navigate to System > Administration > Synaptic (for Ubuntu)
2. Enter your password (not some Administrator password you also have to remember)
3. Click "Refresh"
4. Click "Mark Updates"
5. Click "Apply"
And unless you go install something completely different than the 12k applications available in the repositories, *all* applications will be updated.
Now I understand, this is Ubuntu not Fedora. Fedora is good for people who know what they're doing with Linux and is a great distribution but for a "cutting edge" Windows users, something like Ubuntu is better to get your feet wet.
1. Open Firefox
2. Go to Adobe.com, click on the "Get Adobe flash player" image at the side of the page.
3. On the download page, it will ask you to select the method of packaging for the Linux plugin. In the drop down menu, there is a "YUM for Linux" option (assuming that you are using Fedora). Click that and download it (you will be given an RPM file in the Download directory). Close Firefox once it's done with the download
4. Open your file manager (this will depend on a few things but if you use Gnome, like I, then it's either Nautilus or PCMan. I would suggest you use Nautilus) and click on the RPM file then following the prompts (you will be asked for your password and/or root password).
5. Once that is done, pull up either terminal or PK. In Terminal type, "sudo yum install flash-plugin"[ignore the ""](this is assuming that you have /etc/sudoers set properly... if not, then you type out "su -c 'yum install flash-plugin'"[again ignore the ""] and plug in your root password when asked). In PackageKit (PK), simply search for flash-plugin, check it and click apply). Once that is done and everything is installed, Start up Firefox.... and enjoy flash.
In Fedora, for some reason or another... using Firefox's AMO to install flash is disabled. I assume that Adobe having a YUM repo all to itself would be the reason. Dumb I know, but basically if you set up the repo, you are not on the hook for getting and installing the updates yourself... since Adobe updates the repo RPM itself, and you get it when you update your system.
The 1990's called and they want their FUD back.
Installing Flash in any modern distro is trivial - you click on "Install Flash" in the browser. Unless it's already installed, as in Linux Mint (for example).
Perhaps you should try USING Linux before exposing your long-outdated notions of yesteryear.
I run various Linux distros from dvds from iso images that I had downloaded. Have not found 1 (one) single distro that does not annoy me. Some come close to be real good like Mint, Dreamlinux, SimplyMephis and Mandriva but there is always something that turns me off. It is just too many bugs for general population to accept it.
If you want something that just works that is Mac always and Windows most of the time. Linux has a long way to go to be there.
Big selling point of Linux is supposed to be it is free. Windows has more free and more programs than Linux.
OS is not free but that is included in price of new hardware so you still get it dirt cheap.
Most annoying in Linux for me are simple things. Like Mandriva can't remember where gadgets were and mixes xfce and kde, Mint had terrible flash support, SimplyMephis is good but has absolutely zero support (support is done by
LinuxQuestions.org and there is new post there every 10 seconds so chances to get any reply are close to zero) etc.
Anyway i agree completely with you. If you want things just to work Mac and Windows. Linux is just too much talk by Linux evangelist. Talking about Linux desktop only.
I think you would gain from a support group or "geek" to help you out (if you don't want to pay someone). There is no shame in that.
Like yourself wrt Linux, many have found Windows (or Mac) to have problems here and there.
Moving to Linux is an investment. Once you get used to it, the positives become more obvious (everyone that likes Linux has their reasons).
If spending hundreds here and there (sometimes much more) is not a problem, you may be curious about Linux and/or like it but possibly would not dump Windows or Mac or whatever.
Personally, I like Linux quite a bit. It's a good feeling to be able to create your own things and call your own shots. Linux needs more work so that more people (besides the more technically inclined) can take advantage of all of that creation potential. Lots of people like to create, but it has to be focused on their hobbies/interests.
PS: By far, Linux has the most amount of open/free "plumbing" and utility apps that work well. It's also the easiest plaform with which to grab free/open applications on an ongoing basis. It's the easiest and most inexpensive platform with which to grab cutting edge free/open applications. That encourages the most innovation at the application level. Seriously. With most of the software industry coding for Windows, the Linux community can still hold their own. Where will Linux be in five years as it continues to attract developers and industry partners? Microsoft's and Apple's platforms will stall when these two stop being able to pull in the heavy profits. They have been making real cuts for a little while now. The pressure should keep growing for these two. How many cuts can they (in particular Microsoft) make? When will growing Linux overtake them for good?
Second I'd like to know what commands these people are typing. I use Linux every day of my life as my main OS and don't HAVE to type any commands. I simply choose to do so because its easier than bothering with a GUI in many cases. But the GUI method exists. Its pure FUD because none of them will ever tell you just what apps they aren't able to install or have to resort to the GUI to get to work.
1. any one of them will be highly successful, as an alternative to Windows.
2. major commercial software companies will port their software to Linux (e.g. Adobe, Intuit, etc.).
I understand the business rationale for having a unique Linux distribution, but one UNIFIED distribution might, in fact, generate a significantly greater demand for Linux, resulting in even more opportunities for all of the companies to sell support, training, consulting, custom software development, etc.
Honest competition is rarely a bad thing.
Funny thing, though. When I tried installing Windows XP on my laptop it was a pain in the backside getting all those darn drivers. Linux, on the other hand, detected everything and for the proprietary WiFi drivers it was like 3 clicks and then it worked and that was the only driver I had to do anything for.
I gave up on Windows trying to get the video, wifi, ethernet (yes! the ubiquitous ethernet drivers were not included! how dumb can THAT be?!) drivers, first trying to determine the manufacturer, then finding the drivers on the website!
As for the problem of incompatibility, I don't think that's true. The Web is the great unifier. As for Office docs, I specifically tried opening up a few PowerPoint presentations, Excel files, etc. Everything "just worked." Granted, I don't have serious pivot tables and what-not in my spreadsheets, for example, but then, neither do most people.
Matt - but then, neither do most people.
I think you need to make a correction there. Do you have some special software installed on your Linux based PC that checks all 1 billion Windows PC around the world to know if its a majority that does not need Pivot Tables and special effects in their PPT's? I don't think so, so don't assume things you don't know.
LOL
I bet you even believe that, don't you.
What is not compatible in Linux? All formats are supported, office, audio, video, many many windows games run better in Linux, etc. The point of the web is that the OS connecting is irrelevant. I can connect any linux box without any issues to a network full of windows machines.
It is funny how idiots like you don't understand that the command line is infinitely more powerful and useful than any GUI. Of course CL in Linux is 99.9999% optional, just like Windows.
I start to think that the FOSS community is a bit slow when they don't attack these things head on. Its not up to Fedora to get MS Office. That is a choice on the part of MS to build a Linux version. So please explain how Fedora has isolated itself via MS not building a Linux version of Office.
I mean really...some of this FUD really makes people look very stupid and I don't think they realize that.
Kinda like a joke someone told me a year or so ago. It's the 10th annual "This is the year Linux takes over the Desktop" party. After a while, the claims just begin to fall on deaf ears and nobody shows up to the party.
As I said, I'm gonna take it for a spin but it will need to be something special for me to say it's a better experience than either Windows 7 (because Vista really does stink) or Mac.
Simply put, if you look at Linux now and don't care for it then its safe to say you just like Windows and thats fine. Just stick to the Windows blogs and forums and don't question the Linux folk when we are excited about new releases. Remember there are many out there questioning the excitement over Windows 7.
That solution already exists through application called gThumb which is probably not installed on Ubuntu by default. On Fedora 11, simply group select those pictures, choose open with gThumb and can view them in slideshow mode. Hope it helps.
Bluetooth works flawlessly.
Networking is flawless and stable.
I haven't had any compatibility issues with SMB networks/CIFS. I connect to a Vista desktop regularly for a shared music folder. I don't know if there's a GUI applet for this. Anyone else know?
I read in a couple previous comments complaints about lack of software for linux, a fair point, but I haven't had any problems with my basic tasks, word processing, uploading photos, etc.
One annoyance I've had is SELinux's tendency to pop up when I'm doing basic admin tasks... like in the printer add tool. It hasn't yet shut anything down completely, but it obviously has some kinks to work out. With basic computer use, I should hope never to see that annoying SELinux icon pop up.
Honestly, I'm happy that F11, Ubuntu, SUSE, et al have so many nifty GUIs to appeal to Win/Mac users, but I couldn't care less. I use linux because I like linux. I'm all for being inclusive, but I'm not going to obsess over mimicking some other OS's interface.
I have run CentOS -- the free version of Red Hat -- a bit, and it likes my hardware a whole lot (the 2.6.18 kernel is the best I ever used on my Gateway Solo 1450 laptop).
But RHEL and by extension CentOS don't have a huge repository of applications like Debian, Ubuntu, Mandriva and ... Fedora.
So just due to the package choices, Fedora is something I really should be running. ... Except that Ubuntu is already running so well, and has long-term support, that I'm reluctant to pull it.
Even though I see how/why Red Hat doesn't want to produce an LTS version of Fedora (and the 18 months of support each Fedora receives is pretty good), I think both RH and Fedora would be well-served by an LTS Fedora that, like Ubuntu, offers 3 years of support on the desktop and five years on the server.
That's not as long as RHEL, so they're not totally eating into that market, and the RHEL support via actual engineers over the phone or e-mail has got to be worth something.
I've heard that the upgrade process for Fedora from release to release is getting better, and with the debacle that was my attempt to upgrade (instead of reinstall) OpenBSD 4.4 to 4.5, I probably should be just doing reinstalls anyway, but a commitment on the part of both the Fedora Project and Red Hat to users of Fedora with even a three-year term of support on both the desktop and server would go a long way toward me picking up Fedora as a production system.
Fedora runs the EPEL repository which can be used as an addon for CentOS and RHEL. Fedora contributors with build system privileges can choose to maintain EPEL branches for Fedora items not in RHEL, with the understanding that updates in EPEL are to be more conservative than updates in Fedora
EPEL grows as a function of the manpower to support it. Take a look at:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/collections/
EPEL 5 is at 2564 source packages at the moment...where has Fedora 11 is at 7842.
The numbers aren't directly comparable as EPEL does not include material made available in CentOS/RHEL already which is easily over 1000 source packages .
Doing a little yum repolist on my F10 and CentOS with EPEL enabled I think I get an easier to understand comparison based on the number of binary packages.
Fedora 10 -i386: 11,416
CentOS-5 - Base: 3,272
EPEL 5 : 4,971
Total: 8,243
While EPEL doesn't bring the full package total up on my CentOS box all the way to F-10 binary count, EPEL does have a significant number of packages housed in its repository based in the Fedora build system. If there are things in Fedora but not in EPEL that you need for your CentOS or RHEL install, you should think about stepping up and joining the contributor base as a maintainer for EPEL in coordination with the existing maintainers for the packages you need.
-jef
Are you saying Windows would have to "turn to Linux" if it wanted to be slower?
Fedora 10, I seem to get about 30 seconds to get to the Login screen from boot on this old p4.
Both are on the same system. I am currently using Windows 7 RC and Fedora 10 on a Dual boot setup.
As always, your milage may vary from system to system... but from what I have found, if this is how Microsoft seems to want to support netbooks, it's in for ALOT of complains.
I think a desktop Linux "app store" (like those for smartphones) is the right way to go. A "market place" for software developers & commercial software companies to "sell" their products to Linux users, would provide developers & companies more incentive to port their commercial applications to Linux.
For user interfaces, I just pick a cross-platform GUI toolkit, so I have no WM or DE issues.
i was hoping cnet would hire more grown up and educated people, but apparently not! you can be a mac fan or windows fan, wouldnt bother me, heck if u want be a prostitute (not saying u'll be successful but!) but as an author of a moderately renowned site, shove your fanboy ideas up your you know where and dont give us your opinions... if you think Fedora is so great (with which i dont disagree), compare it systematically with windows and mac and say the advantages or disadvantages of all systems. i've been using windows 7 RC on my laptop and i'm getting boot-up time between 15-20 seconds constantly! so if you're so uneducated and unknowledgeable about what's going on around u, just do everybody here a favour and shut the f*** up!
i'm not saying windows is perfect, nor is any other system! but at least it works on multitude of hardware systems and there are greatest number of applications written for it... unlike mac's closed system. all i'm saying is that..... you're a ******! not a legit author!
Just look at it's ugly desktop, it will def. remind you of LinSux
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUSn-jBA3CE
To the Author I wanted to know what you thought of Ubuntu 9.04. I know you reviewed the remix version for netbooks but what do you think of it for Desktops? And how do you compare Fedora 11 to Ubuntu 9.04?
Also, the time when someone whose only OS experience is with Windows had any 'geek cred' passed a good while ago.
Amen.
Sadly, Ubuntu still lives on hype alone and is years behind the others. It still has a chance to become a good distro.
Ubuntu doesn't live on hype. It lives on actually working and having a strong community. I found Ubuntu by using Fedora and looking for answers to questions that I seemed to always find in the Ubuntu forums. So eventually I tried Ubuntu...and amazingly I no longer had questions because everything worked. Now this is not to say that something was wrong with Fedora. I understand where they put their time and efforts and greatly appreciate it. But at that time I needed a working system that I could use everyday. Now you can call that years behind if you want but I call it progress. And OpenSUSE has just run like a complete DOG everytime I tried it.
The other thing that gets me is the ridiculous hate that comes out of some Fedora folk from developers to users towards Ubuntu. Is it jealousy that Ubuntu receives so much attention? Well buckle down, make sure everything works out of the box and build a helpful community and then your distro can have the same attention. Ironically when you visit Ubuntu forums you can find help for all the other Linux distros because it looks like Ubuntu users are very open to Linux period. You don't see this type of distro bashing towards other distros over there very often.
I just tried a Fedora 11 Live CD on a Dell laptop that has wireless internet.
I did NOT have to install any drivers, all I had to do was click on a button that said, "click here to connect to wireless network." Choose my network from the list, and it connected! That's it! It worked. Everything worked. WOW. I didn't have to type anything or answer any questions about my hardware. Linux has come a long way. Much better than Windows.
A fully tweaked XP can boot and run faster than Fedora 11 out-of-the-box. Of course this is not a fair game, as I have no experience in tweaking KDE/Gnome desktop. However, on my personal experience, the statement
"(Ironically, if Windows hopes to catch Linux in boot-up performance, it's going to have to turn to Linux, like DeviceVM's Splashtop, for help.) "
is not true, with some massive registry cleaning, unnecessary services disabled, BootVis and shell replacement.. it is possible to race Linux on boot-up performance (from power off to login screen, even to fully loaded desktop.
I observe both OS desktops from 4 perspective, ease of installation, speed, how "user friendly" is the desktop, and look/special effects.
Ease of installation:
Windows wins hands down. Even I have to repeat the install of my Fedora after 1 hr of bad install, cause during partitioning, I made 2 partitions (ext3 and swap) instead of 1 partition and use LVM. The result is I have superblock error, run fsck and unable to fix the problem so I just do it over. Package selection is hard, especially for new users, as the purpose of some packages are not clear (I just go ahead and install them, with the risk of making my fresh install bloated more than necessary). I even have language supports for languages I never use even once in my entire life, lucky I saw them and uncheck them all.
Maybe if there are packaged linux as there are XP releases that target specific usage, it would be easier, like XP Home, Server 2003.. etc etc. On linux case, maybe linux for corporate desktop, linux for web server (with nothing but a pre-configured apache/php/mysql and other web-server related technologies.. ruby support.. all that stuff), linux for corporate server (samba/LDAP/mail/whatever that relates).. Other than having a bloated OS :)
Speed:
Comparing fresh installs on XP and Gnome/KDE.. Gnome can ALMOST catch up with my previous fresh XP, with slight lags now and then. However, KDE lags like hell.
User friendly:
Gnome is easy to use.. I would even say that it is as easy to use as Windows desktops. You can see what's where. But KDE is harder for first time user. The add/remove software is not working without internet connection (there's way to change this but u have to use some googling first).
Looks:
Gnome is ugly. Fast, usable but ugly. KDE is beautiful.. It has more special effects than XP, and widgets, sliding this and that.. I think KDE is comparable to Vista and MacOS X... with one weakness..
Fonts on GTK apps wont follow KDE themes without some sort of gtk-qt engine.. and I end up with small fonts on desktop but huge fonts on my firefox, pidgin and other apps. I have no time to fix this yet so I will have to work with gnome desktops for now, to avoid straining my nerves :P
I run all these OS on :
Pentium IV 1.8A, 768 MB RAM, 32 MB NVidia graphic card.
- by datcompros June 15, 2009 3:27 PM PDT
- It amazes me how fast linux gains momentum. You see something linux is doing and you are just saying "Wow, this is really cool." Then you wait just a few short months and then you are saying the same thing all over again. I guess in a nutshell it is refreshing to see something as amazing as linux and as the community.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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Showing 1 of 2 pages (56 Comments)We have tested Fedora 11 recently with some of our builds of our customized phone systems and security appliances (which we use Fedora for the base OS). We were using ubuntu up until about a year ago when we really needed something more solid.
Nonetheless, Fedora 11 has proved this to be true once again. It provides us with solid stability and a true server OS. The boot times with KMS+Plymouth are actually very good and they work with all of our binaries that we use.
If you haven't used Fedora in sometime I really encourage you to give it a shot I think you will be very happy.
Thanks,
Jeremy
jeremy@datcompros.com