Mac vs. Linux support for Windows users

Over the weekend I struggled to get Flash working on my Ubuntu 9.04 Netbook Remix build. I turned to Twitter and Google for support, and was dismayed by the response.

Some, like Canonical's Jono Bacon, were very helpful. The rest offered the somewhat standard Linux supporter's line:

"What are you talking about? Linux is as easy as Windows."

After trying to get Flash installed for hours - using Firefox's extensions directory, the command line, and everything else I could find - this wasn't super helpful.

Not that I'm much more helpful when others ask me for assistance. I'm a Mac user, and my typical response tends to be,

"What are you talking about? Mac OS X is even easier than Windows!"

In either case, telling the drowning woman that it's really easy to swim ("Just type "apt-get swimming lessons") or, worse, yelling at her for incompetence ("I can't believe you're telling me that you don't know what to do with a .dmg file! It's soooo much easier than Windows!"), really doesn't help to win people over to Linux or the Mac. Learning a new operating system is like learning a new language: talking louder doesn't improve communication.

Here's a hint for the Mac and Linux faithful: you won't convert Windows users by talking down to them. Focus on the positive aspects of your own operating environments and then demonstrate empathy and patience while showing newbies how to get around on Linux or Mac OS X.

Using such means they, too, will come to have the same superiority complex that we Mac and Linux users have.

Follow me on Twitter @mjasay.

[Bunkaido]

I find that LinuxQuestions.org is a great place to get help with even the most newbie questions no matter what your distro of choice might be. That's always my first place to turn, and to return the favor, I happily answer any questions out there that I can, as patiently as possible. I was new to Linux at one time too.

-- Bunkai
-- http://bunkaido.blogspot.com

[shinji257]

Lol.. One command I run on each new install (open a terminal first... -- partially ubuntu specific)

sudo apt-get install build-essential ubuntu-restricted-extras

This installs java and flash into firefox among a bunch of other multimedia extras. ;)

[Matt Asay]

Ooh, that's a good one. I'm going to use that command. Now. (Makes me feel cool to be able to use the Terminal. ;-)

[JosefAssad]

There are those of us who prefer to let regular joe users stay on Windows or Apple desktops. Not out of spite, but simply because there's lower hanging fruit in dematerialising a lot of the applications they use in server-based systems.

Who really wants to repeatedly walk people through flash installs for free after all.

[DHLC]

I am guessing that this is a MS Troll in Linux user clothing as this response is the EXACT opposite of the support I have had with all of the stupid questions I have asked on the Ubuntu and Kubuntu forums and via Ubuntu IRC (live chat) support channel.

[jbrianmoss]

I did a fresh Jaunty install on the weekend, and used "The Perfect Desktop - Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope)" - http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-ubuntu-9.04 - note I didn't use netbook remix though. I was able to get flash working by installing "flashplugin-nonfree" - see pg 3 of the article for more info on how to confirm flash is working fine. Please feel free to drop me a line if I can help further.

Brian

[danoja]

Just last week I loaded Flash and the Ubuntu 9.04 Netbook Remix on an eee PC netbook. (I wanted to replace that limited tab default interface with a full version of Linux.)

The process went very smoothly. If I remember correctly, when I tried to run a Flash media element, a pop-up box asked if I wanted to install the Flash component. I told it to do it and Flash installed automatically--just as smoothly as on Windows or a Mac.

[Matt Asay]

Something popped up for me, too, but there were three options/modules (if I remember correctly). I selected the first one, and then haven't been able to get it to show me the other two, which might have been the solution to my problem....

[odubtaig]

Get Synaptic up as per instructions in other comments (in the othe post) and install the flash-nonfree package. With any luck it should flag a conflict with the other plugin package which you should solve by removing it.

[Dan Kegel]

Indeed. For me, getting Flash working is easy, but I forget to do it when I reimage the family laptop,
and then my family is after me like hounds until I do it again. Really, it should be so automatic
that they can do it themselves.

[dumbspammers]

Never "show" someone how to do something. Make them sit down ant the keyboard, and tell them, "Now, do this as I explain it, step-by-step, so you'll remember how to do it next time, if you need to and I am not available to help." Then talk them through it. Nine out of ten users will learn how to do it *by doing it* and you'll have time to help Number Ten again when he needs it.

[billygt89]

I used ubuntu on my laptop... a real nightmare, only to get my wifi card to work !!! Then trying to install all the software I like... and finding cool free software like there is for windows !!!

My girlfriend's gotta a mac... hate it !!! Tried to import photos from my cam... mac uploaded ALL of them... couldn't select only a couple. Tried to uninstall a program... I almost got this response when I searched the net to get an answer : "Unin-- what ?" You can't uninstall on mac ?!! And it goes on...

why bother with mac unless your in multimedia... mac is soooo expensive above all !!! Why bother with linux.. yeah it's free, but it's so complicated to get a computer with no OS pre-installed...

Anyways... PC is the way to go for most people, including for me...

[Bunkaido]

"...it's so complicated to get a computer with no OS pre-installed..."

http://tinyurl.com/mo2l7g
www.emperorlinux.com
www.rcubedtech.com
www.thelinuxlaptop.com

As you can see, there are numerous options for pre-installed Linux on any number of major brand laptops, and if you choose one of the Linux distros that are intended for "mainstream" desktop use, such as Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva, or OpenSuSe, installing additional free applications is as easy as opening the package manager and checking a box next to the app that you want to install.

Please stop with the Microsoft fanboi posts that only misinform people. Linux isn't for everyone, but it's not anywhere near as complicated as the Microsoft camp wants you to believe.

[billygt89]

... PC with windows, that is !!!

[manojlds]

I never had problems installing flash in Fedora or Ubuntu. Yeah I had problems elsewhere, problems that wouldnt be there in Windows, but hey, there are some difficulties everywhere. Just know what you want and get the OS that suits you, all the problems included. Of course, dont go for OS X though. You have problems that can be at times unsolvable. Cos thats what Apple wanted.

[Police_States_of_America]

if ubuntu refuses to ship restricted extras, the first time you need those extras a pop-up should appear with the option to install them, ditto with all codecs and libcss. countless posts on the ubuntu forum about this. most users want stuff to "just work" not learn a process... and there's no reason they should have to most of the time.

[langdona]

The Ubuntu documentation seems quite good. I think this is what I used when I installed flash etc a few months ago and all seems to wotk OK.
https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/musicvideophotos/C/video-playback.html

[Atari05]

help.ubuntu.com - Lots of help and easy to follow instructions for many commonly asked questions and tasks.

However, and I'm not trying to talk your issue down. I'm surprised that you didn't "connect" the dots a bit easier. I quickly learned that there are MANY packages out there for ubuntu. So much so that anymore, if I see an app I want to run, I open Synaptic and do a search for it.

Actually thats how I got flash installed from the get. I figured "they would have to have one". So I did a search for flash and blamo, first or second in the list was flash-nonfree.

So I think my recommendation to you as Linux/Ubuntu user is always check your repo's, you will be surprised what you will find ! :D

[tktim]

I installed Flash on Fedora 10 with no problems. I don't remember all the details. I do remember thinking this was so easy. I think I just checked it off in the "Add/Remove Software" Fedora Repository. I think Ubuntu users are great, but for me Fedora always seems easier, especially when it comes to installing applications. Ubuntu doesn't want to be as cutting edge or up to date as Fedora, that's not their thing. I'm always amazed at people who say it's so hard to install in Linux. Usually they are using a Linux Lite version, but wanting to do the most advanced / cutting edge thing. Or their trying to install something not in their approved repository for their version of Linux. It like using Window 95 or XP but wanting to do something found in Vista or Windows 7. Then complaining how hard it was to do this Vista thing in Windows 95. How come you didn't turn to Flash (Adobe) for help? Flash (Adobe) does have help for Linux users. How come Flash (Adobe) doesn't get any blame, after all Flash is not part of Linux. Some Windows application vendors would complain that Microsoft keeps some code a secret so it hard to make their stuff work correctly or easily, but Linux is open source so vendors can see all the code. In Ubuntu's defense ,this is their Netbook Remix version, so it may be a little early for them to have worked out all the bugs. I know their are some jerks on all help forms including Windows forms, but basically most Linux forms are really helpful. My experience has been a positive one with regards to Linux help forms.

Fedora users working together with Ubuntu / Linux users.

[firecad2006]

why didn't you just go to http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer and download the flash plug-in you can download the .deb for Ubuntu.

[Matt Asay]

I did. Didn't work. I first had to go to the package manager and uninstall Flash in order to reinstall it. No idea why.

[odubtaig]

There's more than one implementation including GNU's Gnash (Ubuntu often doesn't label packages by their actual names if it's thought their purpose won't be clear... they may not have thought this one through) which doesn't have feature parity, no encryption support and no patented codecs.

I'm guessing you had to uninstall a non-Adobe implementation (if I remember right, flash-nonfree is second on the list when FireFox tries to install it and you selected the first one).

...and I'm sorry, I'm just nto buying this 'Adobe won't let them include it' line. Other distros include it and Canonical have a history of trying to please the Free Software purists who don't want anything closed even if there's no decent alternative. Point me to the documentation from Canonical that states this is the case. That's all I have to say on the matter.

[woadlined]

Great article. Being understanding and helpful of newer users should be the preferred instinctive response.

[handydan918]

Yo, Matt! You are usually spot on, but this time I think you have committed the basic error of assuming that Ubuntu==Linux.
The Flash installation issue is easily defeated by installing Mepis. It's already there. No CLI. No package manager. No incantations.
It even works right off the live cd....
And Mepis has far more useful GUI tools for configuring network cards, Xorg, etc.
IMHO, it is the most underrated distro out there.

Ubuntu has done great things in the supply chain, but that just goes to show that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
A ten million dollar purse can go a long way in that game....

[Matt Asay]

Interesting. I've never heard of Mepis but will give it a try.

[jezzali]

Here's the problem Matt, we already know that YOU ALREADY KNOW what to do.

You already know how to open up Synaptic and type "ubuntu-restricted-extras" in the search box. You already know that all you have to do is click the tick box, click 'apply', type in your password and click ok/install/whatever to confirm...

You already know its that easy... so do millions of others... so stop ************ everybody with this lame ass trash you're peddling...

Seriously, were you short of cash this week and needed to hit Microsoft up for some FUD money or something ?

[Matt Asay]

Actually, I *didn't* know how to do any of that. I'm a Mac user that hates the command line and had never heard of Synaptic until I ran into trouble. I started searching Google for answers and learned on the fly. But I didn't know any of it beforehand.

Nor should I have to.

[Fred_Richards]

Oh it's really sooo easy. You just post a question on, well you know, your CNet Blog and all these people will answer the question for you!

:)

[Matt Asay]

Well, that's how it turned out, but that really wasn't the intent. ;-)

[erwinsoo]

I normally dont key in commands into the command line in terminal. I just copy and paste using Ctrl Shift V. Typing into terminal is a real drag

[ASilva437]

I believe Linux Mint is a pretty good distro for those new to Linux. It's pretty much Ubuntu with a pleasing color theme, set up to resemble Windows, and I've heard it has Flash and the rest of Ubuntu Restricted Extras installed right out of the box.

You should try that, and see how it is.