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May 18, 2009 1:07 PM PDT

Linux Netbooks: Hit Microsoft where it ain't

by Matt Asay

In open source or in product development generally, one of the biggest mistakes is to take on a deeply entrenched incumbent on its own turf. Almost inevitably, if you play someone else's game, even if you're a little cheaper/faster/better, you're going to lose. Inertia favors the incumbent, and there's a whole lot of inertia involved in switching vendors.

For this reason, I agree wholeheartedly with Bill Weinberg's suggestion that Linux's opportunity in Netbooks is to focus on the mobile side of the market, rather than bringing a traditional, personal computer bent to the market.

Weinberg writes:

...(O)ne strategic error made by purveyors of Linux Netbooks was to covet the volumes of the global mobile telephony market while following the business models and channels of the legacy notebook marketplace. Linux fans--.orgs, Linux ISVs, and device OEMS--unfortunately approached the Netbook opportunity as a downward extension of the desktop and portable PC business, with volumes of 297M units in 2008 (IDC).

Instead, the Linux ecosystem needs to envision Netbooks (and MIDs and tablets) as building on the worldwide mobile handset business, with its 1.28B annual unit shipments (Gartner) the most lucrative slice of which, smartphones, constitutes 14 percent (ABI) with 20 percent annual growth rates.

Microsoft owns the traditional personal computer market, and probably will forever. But don't lose hope: the best strategies going forward are disruptive, in the Clayton Christensen sense. Microsoft is weak in mobile. This is where Linux proponents should focus their "desktop" strategies.

Apple is gaining on Microsoft in personal computers as much because of its iPhone revolution as its beautiful laptops. If Linux wants to win in Netbooks, and it can, it must do so by undermining Microsoft, not by confronting its desktop dominance directly. Netbooks must be more "Net" than "book," just as mobile phones are more about "mobile" than "phone."

If this is true, Google's Android, which is targeting smartphones first and Netbooks second, may have the upper hand on Intel's Moblin, which aims at Netbooks first, and is largely designed as a Windows replacement.

Malcolm Gladwell recently reminded the world that David beats Goliath with a sling, not a sword. Linux-based Netbooks, playing David to Microsoft's Goliath, should approach the market with a mobile bias, rather than with a personal computer bias.

"Hit 'em where they ain't," said Willie Keeler, which is as true in hitting baseballs as it is in competing with Microsoft.


Follow me on Twitter @mjasay.

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to The Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mjasay.
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by monkeyfun14 May 18, 2009 2:34 PM PDT
The thing is Linux competing with Microsoft or Apple for the desktop market is like dogpile trying to compete with Google its next to impossible.
Reply to this comment
by Kwasiowusu May 20, 2009 5:51 PM PDT
@ Random_Walk , your list is immaterial, irrelevant and incompetent.
Furthermore, Windows runs a heck of lot more of the vital apps that businesses and consumers need than Linux has ever run. To most computer buyers, that's all that counts. People don't buy a comouter just to look at some funny panguin on it. They buy a computer to run the apps that they need.
by Police_States_of_America May 18, 2009 2:46 PM PDT
i was on dell.com today looking at netbooks. an ubuntu model sits at 279 and a windows at 299.

ubuntu certainly has the potential to become a player if they find a way to monitize and use any pull they may have to get REAL apps on ubuntu. we need adobe products, GAMES and other popular programs. its simply not enough to have 'similar apps that are almost as good'.
Reply to this comment
by monkeyfun14 May 18, 2009 3:05 PM PDT
But the $20 difference also gets you better support and a more familiar and easier to use OS.
by Police_States_of_America May 18, 2009 3:17 PM PDT
i agree w/ u on that. however the issue microsoft will face is that i dont need adobe apps, games or other popular apps for a netbook. i need google docs, open office, skype, pidgin and youtube. i have that with ubuntu.
by SF_Sys_Admin May 18, 2009 4:09 PM PDT
Ya, but for $20 - why not pick the OS that is better. $20 is negliglble difference. There is no good reason not to pick the windows one. It does everything the linux box does + more.
by JoeF2 May 18, 2009 5:19 PM PDT
It seems the Windows fanboys are out in force today...
Linux is as easy or easier to use as Windows, at least on Netbooks.
The Windows you get on Netbooks is XP Home, which has very limited connectivity. My Netbook, which came with XP Home which I immediately tossed, now runs Linux and can connect to the network in my office just fine.
by Police_States_of_America May 18, 2009 5:58 PM PDT
@ SF_Sys_Admin: i dont need windows to do anything in this case, didn't you read my reply? as far as i'm concerned windows has no benefit on a netbook and is merely a virus collector. although i do agree that windows is easier to use than ubuntu, though not by much.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:12 PM PDT
@ JoeF2 :
:"Linux is as easy or easier to use as Windows"

On what planet is that?
Dreamland?
This happens to be real life.
The open source crazies continue to live in cloud cuckoo land!

JoeF2 :
"The Windows you get on Netbooks is XP Home, which has very limited connectivity"

Every XP netbook that is selling today, comes with wifi, and is easily connected to the internet with no problems whatsoever.
Furthermore, a pretty high percentage of consumers who made the mistake of buying Linux netbooks, swiftly returned them, because they were expecting the Windows experience, and were expecting it to run all their normal Windows apps, which Linux netbooks just can't run.
There is a reason, Linux netbooks market share fell sharply from over 90% share, to less than 10% share in just one year, even as Windows netbooks market share rose sharply from under 10% share to over 90% share in just a year
by subslug May 18, 2009 6:28 PM PDT
Same with my Netbook, dumped XP as fast as possible.
Funny they never add the cost of the Anti Virus app that you Absolutely MUST run on the Windows version or else.

That $20 difference can quickly become a $60 + difference not to mention all the system resources your virus app is using up and slowing you shiny little lightweight netbook down to a crawl.

Anyone using the "lack of Games" argument on a Netbook should have their posting privileges removed. They obviously have no idea what a Netbook was designed for.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:33 PM PDT
@ Police_States_of_America , well I priced a very good Acer Aspire One Windows XP netbook for even cheaper at just $252 here:
http://search.live.com/products/Acer-Aspire-ONE-A150-1570-Atom-N270-1-6-GHz-8-9-TFT/?q=cheap%20netbooks&p1=%5bCommerceService+scenario%3d%22s%22+docid%3d%224A6AFAFE58A5B2A66DB3%22+do%3d%221%22+p%3d%22df5c7f1ba4404c05b3f423c4e307eee6%22%5d&wf=Commerce&FORM=EECL

And it comes with 120 GB hard drive, 1 GB RAM and Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11g, plus Windoows XP of course.
Why, it even comes with a Microsoft Office Professional 2007 (60 days trial).
by pentest May 18, 2009 6:37 PM PDT
Windows can't do even close to everything Linux can.
by monkeyfun14 May 18, 2009 6:37 PM PDT
@Seaslug


You don't have to pay for A/V
See more comment replies
by t8 May 18, 2009 2:53 PM PDT
I have to agree. To compete, you need to change the paradigm.
The Web is the best platform out there. So create a device that is the best Web device and you have a winner.
Reply to this comment
by chilabot May 18, 2009 3:23 PM PDT
"Microsoft owns the traditional personal computer market, and probably will forever."
Nothing lasts forever...
Reply to this comment
by t8 May 18, 2009 3:46 PM PDT
It is true that they own the boxed software market.

When the paradigm changes to Web based apps and services, then they will not own the market anymore. It will be Google's.

Eventually all that will matter on the software side is the browser and any OS will do as long as it loads a great browser. At this point, Microsoft will lose it's grip.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:55 PM PDT
@ t8 :"When the paradigm changes to Web based apps and services"

The open source fanatics have been talking about "changed paradigms" for ten years, and have gotten exactly NOWHERE, even as Windows continues to dominate the workld;s desktops.
But hey, keep on kidding yourself.

t8 " It will be Google's"

Google's Android is getting clobbered but good in the smartphone market right now, by Blkackberry. If they can't even win market share in smart phones, how do they propose to capture the netbook market share with the same linux based andriod, where linux has been a masive failure on netbooks?
by Super2online May 18, 2009 3:25 PM PDT
Your still fighting the same thing though- the familiar against the unfamiliar. We have read story after story about people bringing back netbooks when they realized it was a linux machine. I don't think this approach is going to give them the lead they are hoping for.
Reply to this comment
by JoeF2 May 18, 2009 5:22 PM PDT
No, you haven't read "story after story". You have read the sensationalist, unusual stories. People just using Linux on Netbooks obviously doesn't get reported, because that's just a normal thing.
Don't mistake what you read as reality. If all you would watch was local TV news, would you think that all cities are overrun by criminals?
by telic May 18, 2009 5:49 PM PDT
No, what you've seen are multiple stories about the _single_ real-world case.

Fact is, there has been only _one_ case of "high returns" for Linux-based netbooks -- MSI -- who admit to having internal QA problems with SUSE. Yet, this _lone_ case has been embellished (by incompetent journalists) and projected onto the netbook category as a whole -- despite contradictory reports from bigger players such as ASUS and Dell, who report that the return rate for Linux is as low as that of Windows XP.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:39 PM PDT
@telic May :"Fact is, there has been only _one_ case of "high returns" for Linux-based netbooks "

Yoiu are smoking the same thing the Iraqi Information Minister Mohamed Al Sahef was smoking when he said:" There are no American troops in Baghdad at all. We slaughtered all the Americans long ago".
And I am Mother Thesresa too.
Denial is the first name of Linix fanatics.
by pentest May 18, 2009 6:42 PM PDT
Linux should be very familiar to Windows users, except for the lack of malware, and that Linux is rock stable, and...

I guess people just like clunky OSes?
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:47 PM PDT
@ pentest, escept that Vista is actually more secure than Linux and Mac OS X Leopard:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-SP2-and-Windows-7-More-Secure-than-Linux-and-Mac-OS-X-Leopard-109192.shtml

And oh, did I mention Windows actually runs all your vital , needed applications, while Linux and Mc OS X don't?
by telic May 19, 2009 3:42 AM PDT
@Kwasiowusu:

Security? In the Pwn2Own Hacker cash-prize competition, Vista and MacOSX were breached, while Linux (Ubuntu) stood secure...

http://tinyurl.com/2rz7er

"So at the end of the last day of the contest, only the Sony VAIO laptop running Ubuntu was left standing."

The West Point military academy chose free Linux (Fedora) to fend off a cyberspace war from the NSA super-spy organization...

http://tinyurl.com/4k3tb5

Did cadets with Linux beat the NSA's sophisticated assault? "They terminated it. With extreme prejudice."

HP and Dell netbook partner Canonical debunks the "high returns" nonsense...

http://blog.canonical.com/?p=151

:)
by bashmohandes May 18, 2009 4:25 PM PDT
Linux is not winning desktop.
When Windows 7 releases, all these Linux boxes will disappear, even Mac OSX market share will freeze.
Reply to this comment
by t8 May 18, 2009 5:23 PM PDT
And then you will fall out of bed and wake up.
by zelrik May 18, 2009 6:12 PM PDT
OH yeah ? I have some good news for you :
http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2009/20090518_win7_rc1_market_shares_slide_microsoft_optimistic.htm

By the way, Linux is not gonna go away, Microsoft used his power to shut it down for years and Linux is still growing. You cant win against a vendor but you cant win against communities and you cant win against free.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:21 PM PDT
@ zelrik

Now why don't you read this, and weep?
"Windows clobbers Linux on netbooks with over 90% share"
http://blogs.computerworld.com/study_windows_clobbers_linux_on_netbooks_with_over_90_share

@ zelrik :
" You cant win against a vendor but you cant win against communities and you cant win against free."

Now that's funny, Windows has been winning against Linux on the world's desktops/laptops for years, and in just the last year, Windows has proceeded to totally annihilate Linux in netbooks too, proving that you can win against the combined open source community, and win against so-called 'free" anytime.
Meanwhile, like Scott McNealy said" Linux is free like a puppy is free". You could get it "free", but its gonna end up costing ya.
by subslug May 18, 2009 6:37 PM PDT
Oh no it's the old "this next version of Windows will do Linux in for good" argument once again. Those sure never get old.

Guess I better enjoy my Linux while I'm still able to, sorry those last three or four versions of Windows that was gonna be the end didn't work out, surely this next one will do it though. /Thumbs up
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 6:42 PM PDT
@ subslug :"Oh no it's the old "this next version of Windows will do Linux in for good" argument once again"

Naaaah.
It's the ol, "the old 7 year version of Windows(XP), has just destroyed Linux market share in netbooks in the last 12 months."
Microsoft doesn't even need a new version of Windows to clobber Linux. Any old version will do.
by zelrik May 18, 2009 6:49 PM PDT
@Kwasiowusu , ahahah, that article you showed me was written by hmm Preston Galla! I dont need to read that article, I know the guy. I am not interested in lame sophism.

Windows winning? Why it's market share is eroding years after years? Why I upgraded from XP to Ubuntu Linux 2 years ago ? Am I a nerd or an early adopter?

I'll tell you something, 10 years ago I was laughing at Linux. Today I am not.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 7:10 PM PDT
@ zelrik
:?ahahah, that article you showed me was written by hmm Preston ?

Umm..it?s a fact that XP has supplanted Linux in the netbooks market. It?s been reported by NPD and by practically every tech publication out there including here:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/01/26/linux-keeps-dying/

:?Windows winning? ?

Sadly for you, Windows is not only winning, it?s been winning for decades.

:?Why it's market share is eroding years after years??

Windows has 90% share of the worlds desktops/laptops.
What is the Linux market share again?


?I'll tell you something, 10 years ago I was laughing at Linux?

10 years ago, Linux had less than 2% of the world?s desktops/laptops. Ten year later(today), Linux STILL has less than 2% of the world?s desktpops/laptops. Linux has gone exactly NOWHERE. How about that eh?
And I am still laughing at linux
by zelrik May 18, 2009 7:22 PM PDT
@Kwasiowusu


NPD talking about Linux is like my mother (she doesnt know what Google is) talking about Linux
NPD is wrong, so you are. A lie coming from a dictactor, a 10 years old kid or a company... is still a lie.

PS : The earth being flat was a fact too back in the day.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 7:30 PM PDT
:"NPD talking about Linux is like my mother (she doesnt know what Google is) talking about Linux"

LMAO!
Denial is the first name of the Linux fanatics.
Sorry, but every single highly reputable market share measuring establishment has Windows clobbering linux in the netbooks market. Dataquest, IDC, everyone.
You can run but you can't hide. Linux is getting clobbered but good in the netbooks market, by a 7 year old operating system called Windows XP.
Microsoft doesn't even need a new operating system to beat Linux. That's pretty pathetic for Linux
So sorry.
by zelrik May 18, 2009 7:43 PM PDT
@Kwasiowusu : 1 000 000 000 people lying doesnt mean it's not a lie! Stop your sophism!

I am well aware of what the data is like and I am also well aware of what methods Microsoft is using. I am also very well aware of what that number from NPD means. I read a lot you know I think about what I read means (understand : not like you).

Throwing numbers from your hat is one thing, understanding them is another.

I am not a Linux fanatic dont get me wrong. I know where Linux is sitting at right now and I know where it's going to be in the coming years. But what makes me mad is liars, I hate them.

I am done with you.
See more comment replies
by chuckscherl May 18, 2009 5:29 PM PDT
Linux will remain in the Land of the Nerds until the developers put together a fool proof way of installing software like Windows. I have tried a couplee of flavors of Linux and they are invariably makee me go to the command line, or install some othere prerequisite program ... at which time I quit.

If the developers can accomplish this, then Linux will be able to compete with Window quite favorably
Reply to this comment
by zelrik May 18, 2009 6:10 PM PDT
You did not try the right distribution.
by pentest May 18, 2009 6:40 PM PDT
3 mouse clicks is too hard for you?

You do realize that there are as many cases in Windows where the command line is required don't you.

Besides, the command line will always be more powerful and flexible than any GUI.
by monkeyfun14 May 18, 2009 7:50 PM PDT
@pentest

I have not once been required to use the command line,
by telic May 19, 2009 4:28 AM PDT
@chuckscherl:

A Linux-preloaded PC doesn't demand use of the command-line interface (CLI).

In fact, HP has "disabled" CLI on the Ubuntu-based Mini 1000-Mi netbook.

Funny, how Microsoft prioritized PowerShell CLI for Windows 7...

http://lifehacker.com/5082266/powershell-comes-with-windows-7

:)
by chuz13 May 18, 2009 6:04 PM PDT
omg peple still using windows !! let me tell you something i use linux im not a geek it is more stable and safe and has the best eye candy around and it is not a resource hog and you dont have to be a geek to use it i can run all windows games on it belive it or not you can run any windows program on it or if you choose find the equivalent to it and you dont have to be a geek just look around and read !!! windows is made for dummys it dosent chalenged your mind linux does it gives you access to its inner working wich micro$oft wont. i like mac wich linux and make came from UNIX im not IT guy or have a degree im just the average joe trying to make the best in this tuff econmomy thats all the funny thing is that everything that i have been able to do with linux i have read in blogs ect and the comunity were there is a will there is linux basically you can do anything with it
Reply to this comment
by adamfitton May 18, 2009 6:10 PM PDT
I reviewed this issue a little while ago and identified that Linux best chance of achieving a critical mass involve its use of vectors.

You can read my short post on the matter at
http://adamfitton.blogspot.com/2009/02/linux-via-vectors.html
Reply to this comment
by chuz13 May 18, 2009 6:11 PM PDT
omg i forgot windows 7 hahaaha that is the same thing as vista it sucks they cant get anyhting right go mac go linux : )
Reply to this comment
by FireyIce01 May 18, 2009 7:57 PM PDT
Actually Windows 7 is pretty good. I've got it installed on my extra computer (which alternates between Hackintosh, Various Flavors of Linux, XP, and Win7 releases) and it's pretty darn snappy. Of course, this won't change the fact that my primary computer will be an Apple Laptop, and my primary media center/home storage server will be Linux. There isn't a game made (that I want to play) for windows that I can't play on linux or mac. The entire suite of tools available for linux is huge. Anything adobe makes has an equivalent, sometimes better, version in *nix, the open source developers (sometimes hundreds or thousands of people) put lots of efforts into adding the features that they want, rather than having to wait for adobe to innovate. The biggest issue with Linux is hardware support, and this is the fault of the hardware manufacturers, not of linux. Drivers will be written, eventually, but the mfrs. spend all their manpower making it work in windows. The times are a changing though.

Also, using Wine (a collection of Windows APIs for linux) almost any application that runs in any pre-vista release of windows can be installed in linux.
by pentest May 18, 2009 6:38 PM PDT
With ARM chips being used with the next gen netbooks, Linux has a built in advantage.

The fact that Linux supports multiple platforms and thus considerably more hardware is a huge advantage that is going to pay off.
Reply to this comment
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 7:00 PM PDT
@ by pentest:"With ARM chips being used with the next gen netbooks, Linux has a built in advantage"

Just keep kidding yourself will ya?
If Windows has already clobbered Linux on netbooks running on Intel atoms, why the heck would the same linux tunning on ARM, win any market share for the same linux?
http://blogs.computerworld.com/study_windows_clobbers_linux_on_netbooks_with_over_90_share
It's the operating system and the familliar Windows experience. Most normal consumeras don't give 2 hoots about ARM chips in their netbooks/laptops if that laptop is not gonna run Windows. That's all they care about, Windoiws.
by zelrik May 18, 2009 7:25 PM PDT
I dont care about Windows but I do care about typos.
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 7:33 PM PDT
@ zelrik May :"I dont care about Windows but I do care about typos."

Naaaah.
It's more like you don't care about facing reality, but you sure as heck care about putting your head in the sand, blocking out reality, and living in dreamland.
by zelrik May 18, 2009 8:06 PM PDT
@ Kwasiowusu , You forgot that I used to be a XP user (as many Ubuntu users these days). Oh yeah the truth you cannot handle : Ubuntu is more popular than ever : 10 + million users which represents already more than the claimed 1% Market Share provided by M$'s buddy : Net Applications ( http://zelrik.blogspot.com/2009/05/net-applications-big-joke.html )
by Kwasiowusu May 18, 2009 8:26 PM PDT
@ zelrik :"You forgot that I used to be a XP user (as many Ubuntu users these days). "

So you claim. Anyone can say anything on the internet.
Meanwhile, there can't be that many of you ubuntu users out there, when linux desptop market share is still hovering at under 2% worldwide can there?
After over 15 years of trying, all linux has manged to get a great big whopping..wait for it..less than 2% ,market share worldwide. That's not exactly what you'd call progress is it?
by zelrik May 19, 2009 5:07 AM PDT
"So you claim. Anyone can say anything on the internet."

You do claim a lot of things too. Yes I used XP before, as well as windows 98, what do you think.

"Meanwhile, there can't be that many of you ubuntu users out there, when linux desptop market share is still hovering at under 2% worldwide can there?"

Here : total PC market size worldwide : 1 500 000 000 , 1% of that is 15 000 000 isnt it? How credible is someone that cannot do the math.

Note there are 100 000 000 Linux users worldwide, which is far more than the claimed 1%

"After over 15 years of trying, all linux has manged to get a great big whopping..wait for it..less than 2% ,market share worldwide. That's not exactly what you'd call progress is it?"

You dont understand that the Linux community used to not care about its market share. That trend is very recent with the push made by Canonical.
by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:53 AM PDT
@ zelrik :"Here : total PC market size worldwide : 1 500 000 000 , 1% of that is 15 000 000 isnt it? How credible is someone that cannot do the math"

# 1. The fact that Linux has 1% of the PC mrket today, doesn't mean Linux has 1% of the totalo installed base pof all personal comouters on the planet does it?
Linux market share used to be mucxh lower before.
Enough with the vooddo math friom you already.

@ zelrik :"You dont understand that the Linux community used to not care about its market share"

Linux people "don't care" about market share?
LMAO!
Now that is really really funny.
Where were you when Linux Torvalds promised to "put Microsoft out of business using Linux"?..and that was over 10 years ago.
10 years later, not only is Windows as dominant as ever, Linux is stuck in as tiny a niche as ever.
Some progress.
Some "putting out of business"
Linux fanatics have been promisong to destsoy Windows market share for as long as I can remember. They just keep shifting the time line every year they fail to do it, that's all.
Will you excuse me while I luagh at you clowns?
by pentest May 19, 2009 6:42 AM PDT
Wow Kwas, your boss at the MS shill department must be leaning on you hard.

MS will have to spend millions and divert a lot of resources just to get its crappy OS to run on ARM's. Linux is already there. Linux has more hardware support and software than Windows. That is a fact, just because it makes you cry doesn't change it.

With one distro and a few tweak you can run the same OS on a very small embedded device or a supercomputer cluster with thousands of processors without additional programming. All that support is built right into the kernel. For MS to do that with Windows, lots of programmer time and effort has to be wasted for each additional device.
by Genestealer May 18, 2009 9:52 PM PDT
Hey. It's not the people that chose Windows, it is Microsoft that forced it down people's throats. It is because Microsoft's monopoly was eliminating its competitors since 80's.
So stop f'in bashing that Linux and Mac are POS because they can't gain market share. It is because Microsoft doesn't let it.
Accept it, if there was competition but no monopoly we would have seen something like Windows 7 at least 5 years ago.
Reply to this comment
by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:10 AM PDT
@ docster87:"go ahead and jump on me, but I gotta say that just cause an OS is used by 90% of computers doesn't make it the best for everyone"

It makes it ths best for MOST computer uers on the planet, who have made informed decisions to walk past the Apple/Linux isles in the computer shops and go buy Windows PC's with their hard eraned money.
by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:30 AM PDT
@ Genestealer :"Hey. It's not the people that chose Windows, it is Microsoft that forced it down people's throats"

Just keep putting your head in the sand and kidding yourself will ya?
Nobody is forced to buy a Windows computer when they walk into Best Buy. The isles are full of Apple macs, which consumers CHOSE to walk past, and go buy Windows PC's.
You seee, consuners have plenty of sense, and are not as stupid as the Apple poseurs, who are idiotic enpough to spend THREE times as much on averahe\ge on an Apple laptop, with a lower spec than a a lower priced Windows pc.
by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:32 AM PDT
@ Genestealer:"So stop f'in bashing that Linux and Mac are POS because they can't gain market share. It is because Microsoft doesn't let it."

Now why don't you tell us the last time you walked into Best Buy and anyone forced you at gun point to buy a Windows PC instead of a Mac or Linux PC?
Just tell us all about it will ya?
by Genestealer May 19, 2009 7:30 AM PDT
@Kwasiowusu

Are you retarded or are you just pretending to be one?
You didn't even understand what I said.
by Genestealer May 19, 2009 11:14 AM PDT
@ Kwasiowusu:
I wasn't talking about distributors that sell Windows boxes. I'm talking about Microsoft that forced them selling only Windows boxed from the very beginning, that's why everyone is choosing Windows, because they have used it forever. And last time I was at BestBuy I didn't see ANY Apple computer, but i don't really care about them either.

If you haven't read this, then do it, it's only about 30 pages.
History of Microsoft's AntiCompetitive Behavior
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090421111327711
by telic May 19, 2009 11:29 AM PDT
@Genestealer: "Microsoft's monopoly was eliminating its competitors since 80's."

Most Windows zealots are oblivious to PC history, so they truly don't understand how Microsoft's OS monopoly was built by locking manufacturers into restrictive (and NDA) contracts, at a time when there was no other consumer OS for IBM's new PC. Under contract, OEMs were required to pay Microsoft a royalty for every PC they sold, whether or not an MS operating system was ever actually installed on those PCs. This effectively stifled OS competitors, as the PC makers would still have to pay MS, even if they were also to pay for a non-MS operating system. Only much later, in the 1990's, were Microsoft's anti-competition tactics judged to be illegal by US and EU governments. Billions of dollars of antitrust fines have been levied against Microsoft because of their systematic corruption of the PC market. These court cases are ongoing in the US and Europe, even today.

It's asking too much to expect the average PC user to understand the inertial effects of Microsoft's longtime vendor lock-in, because end-users really haven't known anything else in their lifetime -- and most people are afraid of the unfamiliar, and they're reluctant to learn new things, even when it's for their own good. Many moons ago, such people were hostile toward the suggestion that Earth isn't flat.

Compared to Microsoft's decades-old monopoly, consumer Linux has been in the mainstream market for only about 18 months -- yet the Redmond behemoth is already bleeding buckets of revenue by having to sell WinXP for a song, in order to subsidize Windows in the cheap netbook market. Thanks to Linux as a market force, Microsoft must promise a leaner new Windows 7.

Consumers are the real winners, on price and selection, yet Windows zealots regard Linux as an unwelcome insurgent.

!
by docster87 May 19, 2009 11:43 AM PDT
When MS won the browser wars back in the 90's, what did they do? NOTHING. Not until Firefox started real innovation did MS actually work to make IE better (like adding tabs). Why back a company that doesn't innovate until forced to? Why didn't MS introduce us to tabbed browsers a decade ago? MS puts a ton of development to crush competition, but without competition MS lacks the desire to forge new ground.
by Genestealer May 19, 2009 3:18 PM PDT
@telic: "Thanks to Linux as a market force, Microsoft must promise a leaner new Windows 7."
That's what I'm talking about. If Microsoft wasn't anti-competitive, we would have seen Windows7 several years ago. But not only that, we would also have more choice between OS'es. And those thousands of applications that Windows zealots claim they need would be not only for Windows, they would be cross-platform.
by docster87 May 18, 2009 10:33 PM PDT
go ahead and jump on me, but I gotta say that just cause an OS is used by 90% of computers doesn't make it the best for everyone, just the most popular. I loved DOS, I enjoyed win3.1 and stood in line the day win95 came out very happily. I took win98 & win-me, but the love was gone. I didn't know that I could try something different... After XP, I was so sick of Windows that I bought a Mac, just to see what was different. After 6 months that underpowered laptop became my main computer over a higher powered XP desktop that I had built myself. I kicked myself for sticking with the popular OS for as long as I did.
Right now I got an iMac that is running winXP in a window and I've just loaded the new Ubuntu in another virtual machine window (just to play & see for myself). So with Mac I have all three. Can Win7 run MacOSX in a window? How can so many people hate bananas if they have never seriously tasted one? I loaded up a linux virtual window so that I can make an informed opinion of it myself, I've heard it sucks, it is great, it is hard, it is easy... Only way for me to really judge is to seriously try it myself. And not just for one task or one day, but play with it now and then for months.
People need to use whatever OS they need. I don't need Windows, but many people still use Windows. I don't care. I don't want to call them names or laugh at their choice. Please let me have my Mac and I'll let you have your Windows and we can both be happy. I really don't see why so many people from either side need to degrade to 3rd grade name-calling and faulty logic attacks. Calling me an idiot for hating Windows is not going to get me to dump my Mac and switch back.
I personally didn't see the use for Mac - but rather than believe what others claimed, I went out and tried it. I love it. Works for me but I can see how Mac won't work for everyone and I'm happy that my OS isn't the most popular, helps keep me and the Mac out of trouble.
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by DonaldStark May 19, 2009 5:23 AM PDT
The problem with linux netbooks is that no retailer takes the time to show the customer the way linux, in this case ubuntu, is set up. They just want their money and that's it. If a retailer took 5 minutes to show someone around ubuntu and show them how much they can customize it, how productive one can be, and how secure, stable, and fun it is to use there wouldn't be so many returns and there would be a lot of happy customers who would more than likely find interest in installing ubuntu on their desktop.
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by jezzali May 19, 2009 5:24 AM PDT
This article makes some good points that I believe are compelling.

What tires me though are the number of ignorant Windows users posting comments who clearly have no idea what it is like to use a current Linux distribution today. I don't need the "thousands" of supposedly "essential" applications that some here boast Windows has. I don't know anyone with Windows-specific needs that go beyond a single application. The majority of users are not so encumbered by such a dependency. And its NOT harder than Windows either, that is a myth that has been perpetuated for far too long. A Linux system, aside from updates is virtually maintenance free, while the average Windows system requires ongoing maintenance.

I have great applications on my Linux system and have no need for any Windows applications. I have an intelligent Package Management system that wont break my PC by installing updates that it shouldn't. I have stability, reliability and security the likes of which Windows users can only dream of, and I don't need third party antivirus and anti-spyware apps. All my favorite apps these days, like DigiKam, KTorrent, Kopete, Quassel, Amarok, Kontact, Kdenlive, K3B, Eric Python IDE, K9Copy, (yes I'm a KDE user) and more, either don't run on Windows or their Windows counterparts are poor by comparison. I'm only a casual gamer so the free games like Nexuiz, Glest and a few others are fine for me. I have a wonderful free operating system that will never lock me out of my own computer or treat me like a criminal. And there's so much more but I wont rave more here.

Suffice to say, I'm happier with Linux than I ever was with Windows, and I should be allowed to say so without having to suffer the neurologically challenged diatribe of myopic luddites who have never used anything but Windows. Not everyone thinks or feels the same way you do.
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by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:38 AM PDT
@ jezzali :" don't need the "thousands" of supposedly "essential" applications that some here boast Windows has."



90% of the workld's computer uers do though. That is why Windows has over 90% of the personal computer market, even while your precious Linux is stuck at a measely less than 2%.

For most offices in the planet, Microsoft Office is a must. You see, they need it to run their businesses.

You see, unlike you, most computer users buy a computer to run the applications they need, not to fight OS wars, or make a stupid politcal statement, or express their anti-Microsoft hate.


[CNET editors' note: Personal attacks deleted.]
by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 5:44 AM PDT
:"Suffice to say, I'm happier with Linux than I ever was with Windows"

Obviously 90% of the computer using population on the planet are not. That's why they chose Windows and have rejected linux by the hundreds of millions.

:"and I should be allowed to say so without having to suffer the neurologically challenged diatribe of myopic luddites who have never used anything but Windows"

That's rich coming from some foaming at the mouth, wild eyed , Microsoft-hating linux fanatic, who choses his operating system to fight OS wars, instead of looking on the computer as merely a tool to run all the applications he needs.
Again, most comouter usres on the planet don't give 2 hoots about Linux. All they care about is to get a machine to run applications that they need. Windows satisfies that requirement, so they buy Windows. Period.
Linux is "free" like a puppy is free.
by docster87 May 19, 2009 11:10 AM PDT
@K-man; MS has released a few fair versions of MS Office for Mac. Most people that run a non-MS-OS have used Windows in the past and likely use Windows at work. These are informed people that choose a personal OS that works for them. Get over it. Have you seriously tried anything other than Windows?
For years I was scared to leave Windows. Why get a Mac? It won't run the thousands of apps I have installed (like someone needs that many apps?)... After switching I discovered that what I need, I still have. iLife is a personal (non-professional) media apps <in my idiot opinion> that beats the pants off any of the media apps I used to use with Windows. And guess what? iLife can't run in Windows.
Besides, I can run XP in a virtual machine plus I have it in bootcamp so I can boot directly to XP and run it with 100% of my computer's power. If I need some strange app that isn't on MacOSX, well, I can still run it. With my Mac I can run all Window apps along with all Linux apps and all Mac apps. So I do believe that my idiot Mac can run MORE APPS than your Windows PC.
Just cause I'm in the minority group doesn't make me wrong. Your arguments on having access to apps just doesn't hold water for me, since I can run more apps than a standard PC. Your argument of MS Office doesn't work for me either since I can run both Windows' Office & the Mac version, plus I prefer iWork (which can create PDF's, where Office can't). And your argument of Windows being so heavily entrenched on 90% of computers? I just don't care what everyone else is doing - I care about what I'm doing, and my Mac lets me do just that.
by zelrik May 19, 2009 6:11 AM PDT
#1. The fact that Linux has 1% of the PC mrket today, doesn't mean Linux has 1% of the totalo installed base pof all personal comouters on the planet does it?

Sorry my bad. If you count servers and stuff it's much higher than that. Thanks for pointing it to me. Math is not compatible with Voodoo by the way

"...and that was over 10 years ago. " I am sorry but I wasnt using Linux back then as I told you. And as I told you : me not equal to Linux fanatic. There are idiots everywhere, M$ doesnt have the monopoly on that either.

I should make you notice that I am not insulting Windows users. You are the only fanatic here.
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by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 6:33 AM PDT
@ zelrik:"If you count servers and stuff it's much higher than that"

Severs?
Tell me this: How many servers are sold per year worldwide?
As compared to how many desktop/laptop PC's?
It's not even close.
Vastly more desktops/laptops are sold than servers, like less than 3% servers.
Not to mention Windows dominates server sales as well anyways.
You lose either way.
by zelrik May 19, 2009 7:53 AM PDT
@ Kwasiowusu

You do seem to love hanging around dont you? (Ok same as me right now but I wont stay for too long, I need to get some real work done here)
Who is paying you to spend your days around here?
Ok I will let you continue your propaganda here. You can declare victory against me all you want but I am sure the readers already decided of the winner. Also, unfortuantly for you there are enough Linux users to keep you busy here.
by vikinzer May 19, 2009 6:15 AM PDT
I totally and completely agree with you on this one. Google has it down pat on how to approach this bad boy. I wish Android were doing better than it is, which I think has more to do with carrier than the actual abilities of the OS. However, if they can fix those problems and then move into the netbook market I think things could go very well for Linux in this segment indeed.

I think the other thing that may well help is the movement to ARM processors in netbooks. For people who really do want them for what they are designed for (web browsing, some basic word processing, maybe some video chat) then the extra battery time that will come from ARM processors will be a huge boon. It will also set Microsoft on a huge development catchup game. In reality it shouldn't take too much to recompile and tweak windows. We have seen from how long the delay between release candidate leak and official release candidate availability that when Microsoft moves it is forced to carry a lot of extra administrative luggage with it. I think this is potentially a good time for linux. Only time will tell though.
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by Kwasiowusu May 19, 2009 6:43 AM PDT
@ vikinzer :"Google has it down pat on how to approach this bad boy"

Goog'e is getting clobbered by Blackberry/Apple/Windows Mobile in the smartphone market. How do you think they are going to do in themuch tougher netbook market, where linux has just lost massively in market share from 90% to just 10%v share in just one year?
Android is just another form of linux after all. It's not gonna do any better in netbooks than other Linux versions did.
Consomers simply don't want Linux on their laptops/netbooks.

@ vikinzer :"I think the other thing that may well help is the movement to ARM processors in netbooks"

ARM will go as far on netbooks as other processots hae gotten on laptops..which is exactly NOWHERE. ARM is not the first "alternate" chip used in laptops. there habe been plenty before them. Al of them failed.

@ vikinzer :". For people who really do want them for what they are designed for (web browsing, some basic word processing, maybe some video chat) then the extra battery time that will come from ARM processors will be a huge boon. It will also set Microsoft on a huge development catchup game"

Oh puleeze.
ARM is getting nowhere on netbooks. Even if it did get a small market, Microsoft already has Windows Mobile, which already runs on ARM, and has been running on ARM long before andriod was even written, no?
There is no point in Microsoft porting Win 7 to ARM.

But hey, just keep on dreaming will ya?
by zelrik May 19, 2009 6:18 AM PDT
#1. The fact that Linux has 1% of the PC mrket today, doesn't mean Linux has 1% of the totalo installed base pof all personal comouters on the planet does it?

Sorry my bad. If you count servers and stuff it's much higher than that. Thanks for pointing it to me. Math is not compatible with Voodoo by the way

"...and that was over 10 years ago. " I am sorry but I wasnt using Linux back then as I told you. And as I told you : me not equal to Linux fanatic. There are idiots everywhere, M$ doesnt have the monopoly on that either.

I should make you notice that I am not insulting Windows users. You are the only fanatic here.
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by sci062999 May 19, 2009 6:57 AM PDT
I am quite OK regarding the current Linux situation on Netbooks. It forces Microsoft to sell XP cheap. Some Linux Netbook distribution will fail. So what? It is free and open-source. It doesn't cost much to spring another Linux clone. Meanwhile Microsoft have to continue the OS war with Linux in the Netbook, embedded devices, smartphones... ultimately consumers win. EVerybody has more choice. If I count all the gadgets I have, I uses Linux more than M$. Even my Sony LCD TV runs embedded Linux.
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by Hellcat May 19, 2009 3:26 PM PDT
True but that won't happen for many years. The only thing that will kick MS out of being #1 is a totally different design of an OS. Windows, mac os and linux look to much alike and still use mouse and keyboard to access. Maybe when someone comes out with good voice recognition navigation for an OS and maybe a virtual touch system (like Minority report or Earth Final Conflict), then MS will no longer be #1 (unless MS comes up with this new OS). I'm thinking 10 maybe 20+ years.
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Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to the Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is general manager of the Americas division and vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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