January 13, 2009 8:37 AM PST

Microsoft should exit the Zune business

by Matt Asay
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Microsoft has built the world's largest software empire by doing many things right (and a few things wrong). It has managed to branch out into other markets like the game console business, but ultimately, it's a business software company. Always has been. Always will be.

Zune image

It is therefore with some amusement that I read on ZDNet about Microsoft's corporate hand-wringing over whether to continue to develop and sell the Zune, and what that might look like.

Microsoft should not be in the Zune business. Period. No amount of Apple envy should have taken Microsoft into the Zune, and its best option is a quick exit.

Let's face it: Microsoft is not cool. That's reality. It's an enterprise software company and, however much one may dress up enterprise software, it's still not sexy or cool.

Billions of dollars in profit, however, is cool, and Microsoft has that in spades. Sure, it risks losing out on the digital-entertainment revolution by not having a music delivery platform, but there are other ways to get into that business without trying to beat Apple at its own game.

In the Zune, Microsoft is playing to Apple's strengths. In products like SharePoint and SQL Server, it plays to its own. Microsoft needs to find a way to get into the consumer market without drowning in Apple's wake. The Zune is not it.

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to The Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. You can follow Matt on Twitter @mjasay.
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by Vegaman_Dan January 13, 2009 9:19 AM PST
I would disagree with Matt on this one. The Zune is currently making money.

If the Zune features can make their way to cell phones, then that too would be profitable. The iPod is getting long in the tooth and no amount of reshaping the same plastic brick will make it any better than it already is. The Zune keeps evolving and offering new features. Some features that people want, some that are met with less enthusiasm. But they are evolving and progressing whereas the iPod has become stagnant and rather old by comparison. I don't count the Touch in this as I don't believe the Touch is really meant to be an iPod when it's really an UMPC / PDA instead.

In the end, if it is profitable, that means you're making money.

Making money is 'cool.'
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by quadj January 13, 2009 10:33 AM PST
@Vegaman_Dan:

I would have to disagree with about the iPod. You cannot discount the iPod Touch as "not an iPod". That is the same mistake Microsoft does when it says that the Xbox 360 is the winner of this generation of consoles (and, oh by the way, we don't count the Wii as a next generation console). The iPod Touch is an iPod. There is no way around it. Therefore, the evolution of the iPod is the iPod Touch. This is why Matt is suggesting Microsoft should get out of the business. They can't innovate in a cool way fast enough to counter Apple's moves.

I personally agree with him.
by CDubber January 13, 2009 10:50 AM PST
"The iPod is getting long in the tooth and no amount of reshaping the same plastic brick will make it any better than it already is. The Zune keeps evolving and offering new features." - Vegaman_Dan

I agree with quadj, it sounds like *somebody* hasn't heard of the iPod Touch, hmm?

How's the air up there in Redmond, Dan?
by DrtyDogg January 13, 2009 11:36 AM PST
If you've seen some of his other comments on here he does claim to own an iPod touch. and he does have a point with it not being a "true" pmp. Yes it can and does play music but it's form factor is not best suited to do so. My cell phone can play music, but I don't always want to pull it out of my pocket, unlock the screen etc. just to skip a song. My PMP I can hit next while it is in my pocket, and I don't even need to get off of my bike. There is a place for a converged device like the Touch, but it will not replace my need for a music player.
by Penguinisto January 13, 2009 11:37 AM PST
The funny part is, Dan claims to own an iPod Touch. Is this correct, Dan?

Seriously though - Apple owns the PMP market, and nothing MSFT can do (short of a nuclear or bio-terrorist attack on the entire city of Cupertino, California) will change that anytime soon.

The iPod Touch is an evolution of the original iPod - one only needs to see the new Nano (and other models) to see how this is playing out... as these smaller models gain the features of the Touch, the Touch itself gains more features still, those features pass down to the smaller iPods, and so it goes.

The Zune isn't really evolving all that much. It is furiously trying to keep up, but aside from WiFi, has nothing compelling to make it stand out. Once you remove the form-factor as an equation (that is, include the iPod Touch), then the Zune falls flat.

Whether or not the Zune is profitable is another story. I sincerely doubt that it's very much of a profit if any at all, at least compared to the needs and money flows of a company the size of Microsoft. IOW, I sincerely doubt that there's enough cash to be had in the Zune to keep the company alive.
by jaxstephens January 13, 2009 11:52 AM PST
Vegaman_Dan,

I agree with the other commenters. Calling the iPod Touch not another iPod is missing the point. Eventually, iPods will largely be of the Touch variety, and the "Classic" interface (as Apple calls it) will disappear. They'll still always need something for the smallest iPods that can't adequately be controlled with a finger, though, so that will be interesting. Clearly, however, it's in their best interest to support one major operating system for their phones/PDAs/iPods/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.
by kojacked January 14, 2009 7:57 AM PST
I love how some of the commentators here equate the fact that Dan owns an iPod therefore he should worship Apple. Since he said something contrary to the Apple fanboy beliefs he must not really own an iPod since everyone knows you can't own an iPod and not worship Apple. Give me a break. It just goes to show how open minded Dan really is and how close minded you fanboys are.

Call me a Windows or Microsoft fanboy if you must but note that I have offered no comment nor opinion on the Zune no iPod because I've used neither (IOW, you'll label me a Micro$oft fanboy just because I made fun of Apple fanboys). If you don't worship Apple then you must be the enemy. It's sad when you start making yourself loyal to a particular manufacturer or brand rather than just using what you like.

Oh and per the article I agree Microsoft should get out of the Zune business since Apple owns the consumer marketspace. For that matter they should stop targeting consumers with their OS and make room for the Linux Desktop! [cue angelic chorus]. Sorry I just had to bring some open source to this column that is clearly not related to "the business and politics of open source". Good reporting Matt!
by rapier1 January 13, 2009 9:23 AM PST
Its too bad you feel that way. The zune is actually very good PMP with a really nice interface and, in my opinion, a more enjoyable host side software experience than iTunes. Maybe you should give one a try. Still, it doesn't really matter - they're in the business and they're not going to leave it anytime soon however much that might personally gall you.
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by Penguinisto January 13, 2009 11:41 AM PST
I prefer using gtkpod to iTunes... but then, Linux lets me do that ;)
by supoman January 13, 2009 9:49 AM PST
It appears that Microsoft's days of hijacking other people's ideas and products is fast approaching an end. Remember when they were paying people to switch to MSN? How'd that work out? And it seems they still haven't learned anything from that. They'd be much better served in shoring up the things that they do DO well instead of chasing every dollar bill around the internet.
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by mead0698 January 26, 2009 3:02 PM PST
I have had experience with Ipod and itunes, creative, samsung, motorolla and a 2 year of use of rhapsody and the original sansa rhapsody player. I recently received a Sansa View as a gift and was sorely disappointed. I then tried various sony and creative players. Upon a misinformed sales associate assurance the Zune would synchronize with my rhapsody library and channels which I have become addicted to as many others have as well. I was sure this was not correct but I am not immune to being wrong upon occasion. The Zune was in fact worthless with rhapsody and for that matter napster (which is a horrible platform for easy music synchronization.)
My initial experience with an 8g Zune and the Zune marketplace was enlightening for myself as someone who did not expect much of the versatility of the Zune. Suffice to say I was surprised. I now enjoy the use of a Zune 120 and have discovered the ease of subscription synchronization of my music, videos, and numerous automatically updated audio and video podcasts. For all of the other Zune cynics out there give it a try.
by cowatson January 13, 2009 10:01 AM PST
I have both the Zune 80GB HDD and the iPod 80GB HDD. BOth bought around the same time, and I like the Zune much better (especially because to upgrade you just connect to your PC, you don't have to buy a new one.)

That being said, I love the iPod Touch above all.

But where Zune tries to compete (HDD and smaller flash versions) I think it is better...love the subscription service over the single song purchase model too.
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by dascha1 January 13, 2009 10:26 AM PST
I agree Matt, I actually agree. Come to think of it, there was a product called "MovieBroker" years ago that you just installed on Desktop Windows. It was designed to broker/sell music, video from your PC Internet connection as a media source, and manage the songs you downloaded from the Internet content provider to your usb/ mobile device like PocketPC. Anyway it had a review in a PPC mag some time back but an acquisition of something like that back then would've stolen the wind out of Apple's sales had it actually happened!
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by dascha1 January 13, 2009 11:22 AM PST
Update: What do you know... the application mentioned is still out there and working(?!)... Here's a review from last year at a shareware site, but what I don't understand though is what's meant by the phrase "Remote Media" sources and if it works with Zune or just windows ce or ppc:

"Movie Broker 1.0 is an easy to use shareware application for your Pocket PC and Windows CE. Using this application can help you manage your media files in your Pocket PC. You can get desired tools and streams for your Pocket PC media files. You can also export or import your media files between your Pocket PC and your other appliances like Desktop, PDA and even Remote Media sources. Using this application you can copy and work on files of various types like documents, MPEG, WAV, MP3 etc. This application with self contained environment can make your media files available to you anywhere and anytime.

You can listen to your favorite music and audio files whenever you need or wish to. You can also open movie or video clips from this application. Thus this application can work as a perfect entertainer for you.

You need to have a network connection to get files from the remote source and then launch them."
by JuanGuapo January 13, 2009 10:35 AM PST
The Zune has no doubt improved a lot since its release. I was never impressed with it until the squircle came out. That was the only thing that really looked "different" than anything else I'd seen; otherwise, it's pretty average and is starting to look dated.

Apple really does own the MP3 and portable video player market....so why another "me too" product? I love to see competition between companies--prices go down, quality and innovation go up; it's a win-win situation. However, why on earth make another "me too" product like the Zune? So, on this point I agree they should abandon the Zune.

On the other hand, if they're going to make the Zune, make it better than the iPod by giving us (the consumers) something we either lack in the iPod/iPhone, or something the Zune can do better than anyone else. FM Tuner? Give me a break.... give me something on par with Video Conferencing (w/ integrated cam) or make it interface with my Xbox 360 so I can use it as a rear-view mirror in Forza (like the PSP was supposed to do w/ the PS3). In other words, give me something so compelling that I can't wait to throw my iPod or iPhone to the wind....buy a Windows machine...and say it was all worth it.

Nope, nothing yet....
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by SpeekEazy January 13, 2009 10:41 AM PST
I Love my Zune but if MS should choose to ditch it thats fine because i still have mine :). And oddly enough i have friends that have a zune as well.
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by lmasanti January 13, 2009 10:41 AM PST
"...but ultimately, it's a business software company."

I think that the strength lies in its lawyers, or better yet, in Bill Gates' father lawyer DNA.

From the original "rip off" of software to become DOS, to the enforcement contracts to "only provide Microsoft products" on OEMs, to the contract with Apple to copy the Look and Feel...

Almost everything in Microsoft's business life is around a [not so clear] contract.
This is --IMO-- why it could not compete on consumers' devices.
And as the last "software practice" (an irony to legal malpractice)... Do you remember the Standard Voting fiasco?
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by CDubber January 13, 2009 10:46 AM PST
" The Zune is currently making money." - Vegaman_Dan

Link please?

And at Matt Asay: of *course* Microsoft is cool! Why, that Allard dude shaved his head and legally changed his name to J. It's a one-letter name, man! Nothing is cooler than that. And he wears tight black jeans and t-shirts with ironic graphics. How much "cool" do you want? Microsoft is so cool, they're glacial.
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by DrtyDogg January 13, 2009 11:39 AM PST
Do you have a link that says otherwise?
by odubtaig January 13, 2009 3:03 PM PST
If I make the claim that MS is paying people to take the Zune away and you ask for a link, is it then fair for me to reply 'do you have a link that says otherwise'?

No, it's cod logic. The person to make the claim in the first place has to provide the proof.

I now declare that you have a donkey's brain. I will provide no proof, it's entirely down to you to prove otherwise because we are now playing by your preferred rules.
by MSSlayer January 13, 2009 3:03 PM PST
Vegehead made the baseless claim.
by sting7k January 13, 2009 11:00 AM PST
I think IF Microsoft can figure out that they need to unify their systems they will have a killer system. Zune, Windows, and Xbox all need to have access to the same LIVE system. Marry Xbox LIVE market place and Zune Market place, anything I buy on one I can move to the other and my PC.

Look at Apple, they are already trying this. They have iTunes on your computer, the iPod, and Apple TV. Microsoft has the most used desktop OS in the world, the second best selling game console, and Zune. How could they not be taking advantage of that? I rent HD movies on my Xbox 360 all the time and they look great. But I also still connect my iPod to my Xbox 360 to listen to music. Sometimes I will stream it with WMC but that is slow and doesn't always work very well playing in the background while gaming.

Microsoft is totally blowing it in, the Xbox 360 could be blowing the Apple TV away if they unify LIVE Market Place and Zune Market Place and let you transfer files around much easier.
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by JCPayne January 13, 2009 11:03 AM PST
No, no, no. Let them blow their money...

If they want to wake up one day and spend so many millions on the T-Mobile sidekick. Good, go ahead Microsoft 'cause I got rid of my Sidekick the month after the deal went through. I'll get an iPhone or Gphone or Blackberry instead.

If they want to spend soo many billions to acquire Yahoo! Go ahead Microsoft, 'cause I've already transitioned most of my stuff to Google and I can shut down my Yahoo accounts and discontinue the rest of my Yahoo usage at will. You wont see me on Live either.

If Microsoft wants to spend millions on making Verizon search hit them, go ahead because I can still goto the competition. I say let Microsoft spend, spend, spend because at the end if Microsoft actually makes a solid operating system like XP most people don't see a need to simply continue buying new ones every 2-3 years just because. Microsoft can force companies to buy their future O/Ses by contract but that's those company's problems not mine the smart ones will migrate now to save themselves the "Microsoft tax" on their business... I say let Microsoft blow their money.
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by Earl Benzar January 13, 2009 11:21 AM PST
I wish that one PC maker out there would have the courage to take Linux and make it palatable to businesses and consumers. As a business owner I am sick and tired of throwing money at Microsoft "upgrades" and their lack of focus. Let MS rot.

Sincerely,
Earl "burned by MS one too many times" Benzar
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by DrtyDogg January 13, 2009 12:58 PM PST
www.dell.com
by Gerry77 January 13, 2009 11:23 AM PST
I agree with the article Matt. I do differ in that I believe that Microsoft entered the portable digital entertainment delivery device as a defensive tool to help prevent Windows users from migrating to the Mac platform. One of the biggest effects of the iPod's popularity has been in exposing and converting numerous former Windows devotees to the elegance and simplicity of the Mac ecosystem. By having a viable digital music player it helps keep the believers within the Windows/Microsoft realm. So even if it never catches up to the iPod in popularity it'll have served it's purpose. Microsoft is only interested in protecting the market that it currently dominates and the Zune does its part wether it's money-losing entity or not!
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by Get_a_life_Leo January 13, 2009 1:02 PM PST
That would make sense if it were not for the fact that 90+% of iPod owners use Windows. Given this, I would say that the strategy to keep people from migrating from the Microsoft eco-system to Apple by diverting them to Zune is a dismal failure. I don't think Apple is a threat to Microsoft in any way. Windows has as much a lock on the desktop as the iPod has on music players.

The reason why Apple has made any gain in computer marketshare (7-9%) is because of the underperformance of Vista, not the underperformance of the Zune. A dollar invested in Windows is worth $100 invested in the Zune. Microsoft once said to Apple, its time to "knife the baby" (a reference to QuickTime, which, ironically is a distant ancestor of Apples music/media strategy that lead to the iPod). I doubt Apple gives a damn abut the Zune.
by ClarkWells January 13, 2009 11:24 AM PST
I absouluty love the zune player and music service. To all people who are skeptical and are just obsessed with paying for every song you download on itunes, you really need to try out a zune and get a zune pass. The Zune IS an amazing PMP.... I have had 2 ipods in the past, a G2 and a G4... I choose the interface and sound quality of the zune over both of them.

Apple dominates the market with iTunes.... everyone knows that.... but part of that is because people only know "itunes" and don't really know about Zune, or think "Oh it's Microsoft... it cant compete with Apple in something like this".... i mean Hell, Apple revolutionized the Digital Media revolution with iTunes.

But everytime i tell a friend about zune and actually get them to try it out, they all love it. The interface is amazing, the unlimited downloads for a flat rate can't be beat, and the player itself is great.

More people need to try a Zune... or at least the Zune 3.0 software. I think alot of people would be impressed. I really do love mine and would hate to see the service go. Hopefully that wont happen.
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by firestarter January 13, 2009 11:32 AM PST
What the hell does being cool have to do with selling a PMP. i dont think apple is cool and yet the sell ipod. if you want to give a better reason for microsoft to leave the zune then please rewrite the story but if its because they are not cool then this is just a fluff piece then.
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by Gishahni January 23, 2009 7:57 PM PST
Cool....ever heard of marketing?
by January 13, 2009 11:43 AM PST
YOU ARE COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT, MATT! CNET, come to your senses! This guy bashes Microsoft because they are a competitor to his company. He's biased and, more importantly, completely off-topic. "The Open Road"? Are you serious? It should be "The Microsoft Cliff", because he keeps hoping they will fall off a cliff. It's most of what he talks about!
Reply to this comment
by odubtaig January 13, 2009 3:09 PM PST
You're new here aren't you.
by Gishahni January 23, 2009 8:09 PM PST
Irrelevant? I've been thinking MSFT should be getting rid of the zune for a while now. So you would rather decide to completely ignore sales numbers and scream bias? Please, MSFT has lost their niche in the PMP area and need to cut their losses. MSFT would be smart to start offering an "AND" option to things instead of an "either/or" policy. AAPL was smart enough to with dual boot. Lets see if the giant can swallow some pride and start letting people incorporate iTunes into their windows media centers....
by Imalittleteapot January 13, 2009 12:29 PM PST
Yeah if they do maybe I can pick up one cheap when they sell them all off.
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by ecotony January 13, 2009 1:07 PM PST
I personally think that MSFT should continue with the Zune. It keeps Apple on their toes and keeps them pushing forward with innovation. Competition is good for everyone. Who knows, MSFT might build a winner someday, but that someday hasn't happened yet.
Reply to this comment
by grabulous January 13, 2009 2:18 PM PST
Microsoft desperately wants to be seen as a lifestyle company as well as a corporate buzzkill. All the splashy commercials with hippy dippy people going on about "I'm a PC" reminds me of the the OS/2 Warp commercials desperately grasping for users. Yes I am that old. I agree that the Touch is a little computer waiting for enabling of multitasking, a clipboard for copy/paste, and full bluetooth for a keyboard and even a keyboard form factor -Newton 2100 and eMate anyone?
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by odubtaig January 13, 2009 3:14 PM PST
You're 29? or am I just a turbo nerd?

Well, let's see, I have an iRiver H10 with an upgraded HDD and RockBox installed (for gapless playback and oggs) and I used to have a little Palm... something or other with a folding keyboard that clipped in the bottom and doubled as the stand in about 2003.

I'll get me coat.
by grabulous January 13, 2009 2:20 PM PST
D'ja ever notice that when you put iTunes on a WinXP netbook, it becomes a video iPod?
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About The Open Road

Matt Asay brings a decade of in-the-trenches open-source business and legal experience to the Open Road, with an emphasis on emerging open-source business strategies and opportunities. Matt is general manager of the Americas division and vice president of business development at Alfresco, a company that develops open-source software for content management. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.

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