Toyota: Electric cars 'too expensive' for mainstream
Electric vehicles are the clear favored technology for concept cars at the Frankfurt Motor Show this week. But Toyota, the leader in hybrid cars, thinks that the high cost of the lithium ion batteries will keep electric cars from penetrating the mass market for another decade.
Over the past three years, Toyota secretly tested lithium ion batteries as a potential replacement for the nickel metal hydride batteries now used in the Prius, according to a Bloomberg report
In its tests, Toyota concluded that lithium ion batteries were safe and reliable, but the higher cost doesn't justify a complete shift over for Toyota's hybrids, executives said. As a result, the company will remain with nickel-based batteries for most of its hybrid cars, according to the report.
Toyota will start testing plug-in Priuses that use lithium-ion batteries but is sticking with current nickel-based batteries for most of its hybrids.
(Credit: Toyota)The lighter weight that lithium ion batteries offer over other battery types has led automakers to that technology for all-electric sedans such as the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt extended-range electric vehicle.
Toyota, too, this week unveiled a plug-in Toyota Prius based on the 2010 model that uses a lithium ion battery. It expects to start leasing them to fleet operators early next year. But when it comes to the "mass market," the company still considers costs and range of battery-electric vehicles a barrier until 2020.
"Electric vehicles of today are less costly than in 1990s, but if you compare them with the other vehicles out there they are still too expensive," Executive Vice President Takeshi Uchiyamada said at a news conference at the Frankfurt show. "Unless there is a very big breakthrough in battery costs I don't think electric vehicles can take a large market share."
Among the many electric-vehicle concepts expected this week are four sedans from Renault, including the Fluence ZE which can work with Better Place's automated battery-switching stations.
Martin LaMonica is a senior writer for CNET's Green Tech blog. He started at CNET News in 2002, covering IT and Web development. Before that, he was executive editor at IT publication InfoWorld. E-mail Martin. 
I think we knew that.
Do you mean THAT "liberal" administration? As in liberally bring oil executives to secret meetings in the WH? As in "liberally" offering incentive to oil and gas production and consumption, that administration?
You conveniently ignored Ford? Ford was the first to come out with a gas-electric hybrid called the Ford Escape. Ford's forward looking strategy made it the ONLY one of the three auto companies that did not seek government bail-out money. Ford is surviving on its own today.
This sort of blind and ignorant attitude is what will kill our industries. The inability to adapt to changing needs and changing reality. The inability to innovate, to compete and to take advantage of change.
Putting on blinders, however pretty they may be, will not change reality.
I agree with you that the Volt will not rescue GM, and will probably not make money for them. However, do you think Toyota made money on its early Priuses? "Sound business decisions" mean planning for the oil-constrained future. Also, you should understand how much support Toyota gets from the Japanese government in terms of R&D subsidies and, more importantly, a weak Yen policy. You should also consider the tax breaks that the southern states in America give Toyota to attract manufacturing jobs-- states that are net beneficiaries of federal tax dollars. The credit you give to Toyota is only partially deserved because, unlike domestic auto companies, they have the tailwind of Japanese industrial policy, rather than the headwinds from high health-care costs and poor public education that our auto makers face.
You may not believe in climate change, but you should at least understand that it takes more than simply cutting taxes for the wealthy to improve the business climate of America. It's all about global competitiveness. Watch Ford during the next few years and you'll see how it is done right. I can assure you, Alan Mullaly is not "chasing idyllic liberal dreams fostered in the falsehood of the global warming epidemic"?
Wikipedia: "With fully charged batteries, enough electrical energy will be stored to power the Volt up to 40 miles (64 km). This distance is capable of satisfying the daily commute for 75% of Americans, whose commute is on average 33 miles (53 km). After 40 miles (64 km), a small 4-cylinder gasoline internal combustion engine drives a 53 kW (71 hp) generator effectively extending the Volt's potential range to over 300 miles (483 km) on a single tank of gasoline."
On the other hand, the Nissan LEAF is 100% electric and has ZERO tail pipe emissions.
The Volt isn't a purely electric car, it's an ERV with a generator.
I personally worked in the auto industry in Detroit for the past 4 years. In response to skillydog saying GM cannot make sound business decisions...the problem is, they think they are! The American Auto industry is such a sea of red tape and is full of self-serving workers who are only in it to climb the corporate latter so they can be "awarded" with a bloated salary and golden parachute. I literally watched an executive order more fleets of an SUV 3 years ago that wasn't selling - his theory? Build it and they'll buy it. My company built so many of these huge SUVs that our company literally had to rent parking space at the Detroit airport to store the SUVs no one bought. Oh yeah, this guy's still employed, while thousands of good, hard working people suffered for his idiocy.
Also, when the US is forced to pay Union Laborers more than a teacher would make in an annual salary, you can start to understand why American car companies simply cannot build a smaller, more economical car. Especially when labor forces in other countries work for much cheaper wages. The American auto industry is dead and will not be resuscitated, no matter how much money Obama throws at it with both hands.
GM is a liar; Lutz is a failure at all the things he tried, a three-time loser (chrysler, Exide and GM).
GM has some nerve, pretending to know anything about cars; they are BANKRUPT, that means FAILURES.
If we want electric cars we will buy them for ourselves if they are affordable, but we will not pay for YOUR overpriced electric car because some zealot with a messianic complex is good at reading off of a teleprompter.
What planet do you live on? I think your tinfoil hat is a bit tilted. But thanks for illustrating the wacked out right-wing point by mrcobbynot1.
Unlike GM, Nissan, BYD, Aptera, Tesla, which have a clean slate for retooling, they can select whatever battery technology that makes more sense to them to base their vehicles on considering the unpredictability of oil in the coming days and the mass production of lithium. When the oil starts to get more expensive and the Lithium based batteries are produced en masse, prices of the batteries become cheaper and become more justifiable.
GM Volt provides excellent transition as it will allow the car owner to have a choice to go pure electric or in combo with high mpg flex fuel depending on prices. The pure electric have cornered themselves immediately into electric power source only, while the plug-in hybrids that have an option for pure electric mode and flex fuel will have the widest choices of vehicle fuel sources in the planet. So whatever fuel, be it biomass based, fossil based, or electric from wind, solar, coal, nuclear, are just among the few the choices you can get. And you'll select the one that make more sense to you during the transition when there are mood swings in the prices as both the oil, coal, and electric power plants does their pricing strategies in response to panic driven consumer base.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/15/gm-voltcom-chevy-volt-want-list-tops-50000-members/
in 2007, Toyota sold 181,200 Prius's in North America, and 281,300 worldwide, that is close to $6.7 B in sales and will be growing some more as gasoline passes the $4/gallon mark again.
http://www.engineersedge.com/technology_news/posts/910.html
There are many factors to consider when improving our electric grid, and we've done nothing to address any of them. There are issues now with trying to do grid tie-ins with wind and solar power installations. Yes, in the first few years, there probably won't be many issues with the grid, but what if gas jumps to $5 or $10 overnight? People clamor to buy electric, the grid isn't ready, and we've got issues. Ten years?? I hope we're still not talking about hybrids and batteries in 10 years or we're in serious trouble. I think that if there was going to be a big profound development in batteries, we'd have seen it by now, or at least a hint of it.
http://www.nyiso.com/public/webdocs/newsroom/press_releases/2009/Alternate_Route_NYISO_PHEV_Paper_062909.pdf
http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=204
Clearly grid capacity/infrastructure is a long-term concern, and that's why it is being addressed by companies like GM. But it is not a short-term concern, nor is it a show-stopper.
This is why GM's Volt means so much... because it doesn't require the monstrous battery for an ALL and ONLY electric... and it doesnt require a complete infrastructure change across America!
Good one!
Hey buddy, I have some magic beans in my pocket, wanna buy some?
The existing Nickel Metal Hydride batteries are perfectly fine for all-electric no-gas, no-oil EVs, and are still running on pre-chevron-lawsuit NiMH batteries from before Nov., 2002.
Just because Lithium is too expensive, you draw the dumb idea that existing NiMH is too expensive.
No wonder the people realize journalists are liars.
Toyota made a sensible decision.
I own a Prius with NiNH batteries and have a friend who owns a Porsche which has been converted to EV and uses Lithium-ion batteries.
L-ion batteries are a lot more expensive than NiMH batteries and will need to be replaced 2 or three time in the life of a car. EVs are a developing technology. It is not like there is an alternative. Oil is GOING to run out.
Well actually, there is an alternative. It is the horse and buggy or walking.
Energy spent getting mad is wasted. Besides it is no fun.
- by namegame96 October 4, 2009 11:33 AM PDT
- You guys should watch "Who killed the electric car" It is the arrogant oil corporations keeping battery technology creeping along at a snails pace. Car manufacture's are just their pawns.
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