GM eyes revamped hybrid power train for sedans
Updated at 12:00 p.m. PT with comments from GM representative.
Even as GM develops the electric power train for its Chevy Volt, the company has plans to design a hybrid platform for sedans, according to a report.
The hybrid technology will be used in a midsize sedan as well as other vehicles and offer better mileage than its current technology.
"What we are trying to work towards is 'Yes,' we will have other hybrid vehicles (besides the Volt) but we are trying to work towards a dedicated hybrid," Ed Peper, GM's general manager of Chevrolet, told GM-Volt.com, a site not affiliated with GM. "We think that's probably a better way for us to go longer term."
The hybrid Chevy Malibu: time for an upgrade?
(Credit: General Motors)GM currently offers a hybrid edition of the Chevy Malibu that promises up to 26 miles per gallon in city driving and 34 on highway. That's only slightly better than the 22- and 33 miles-per-gallon rating for the gasoline-only version--a situation that GM is seeking to improve on, Peper said.
"I think when we bring out a hybrid, and I think its very important, we've got to make sure it has significantly better fuel economy than a non-hybrid," he said.
GM stopped production of the 2009 Malibu but it will offer the improved hybrid system with the 2011 Malibu, a GM representative said on Monday.
The fuel economy with the new hybrid system will be on the order of 20 percent compared to the gasoline-only versions, he added. Rather than nickel metal hydride batteries, the newer hybrid system will use lithium-ion batteries supplied by Hitachi.
"This future system will have the capability to work over a wider range of vehicles," he said.
Offering more hybrid editions would complement GM's range-extended electric vehicle technology used in the Volt and potentially other cars. In announcing its departure from bankruptcy on Friday, GM repeated that advanced battery development is a "core competency" for the revived automaker.
A hybrid power train uses both the gasoline engine and a dedicated battery to power the car. When the car decelerates or brakes, the system charges the battery.
All-electric or range-extended electric vehicles are different in that they use the batteries and electric motor only to move the car. The gasoline engine in the Chevy Volt will be used to charge the battery for trips longer than 40 miles.
In addition to the Volt's electric power train and a revamped hybrid platform, GM also plans to offer plug-in hybrid vehicles across its four core brands. The basis for the plug-in hybrid will be from GM's "two-mode hybrid" system and will be available in 2011, according a GM representative.
Meanwhile, Honda on Monday said that it plans to offer hybrid versions of its CR-Z sports car and Fit Hybrid in Japan by the end of 2010.
Martin LaMonica is a senior writer for CNET's Green Tech blog. He started at CNET News in 2002, covering IT and Web development. Before that, he was executive editor at IT publication InfoWorld. E-mail Martin. 
I get that good of range on my 1980 Comuta-Car that I drove to work today.
Dave Pyatt
Alliance, OH
Plug In Electric owner -
'80 Commuter Vehicles, Inc. Comuta-Car
'74 Sebring Vanguard CitiCar
This is a gas-electric vehicle, a mode of operation that hasn't been done in automotive circles. The gas engine is only there to charge the battery, not physically coupled to the drive train.
I suspect the battery and motor technology may have improved in the last 25 years over your own vehicles, don't you?
Dumb A@@ Managers!
Sure, it would have been nice if GM kept developing the EV1 program, that I can agree on. But even if they had I don't think the 90's would have seen an electric vehicle for "normal" people anyway, the tech to make it work in mass productions didn't exist, and the tech that powered the car was inefficient and way too expensive, even for GM.
It seems no one ever acknowledges the fact that other car makers at the time also had EV's and that they all followed GM out of the EV game.
I think it's funny how some people will defend the EV1 but will attack the Volt. It doesn't make sense, would they really prefer a small compact (not to mention ugly) car that can only go 70-120 miles between charge, or a car that potentially doesn't even have to be charged? Or, for a modern example, would you rather have a Tesla that can go 150miles really fast but then has to be recharged? Or would you rather have a normal 4-door sedan that can go 40 miles on battery power and then continue to go powered via that electric motor for another 300 without having to be charge.
Remember, when you're driving an electric car you can't just call up AAA and ask them for 1200 Volts or Watts of electricity.lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc2rfdnWau8
Per Mr. Lutz: The EV-1 was canceled because each one cost GM $100K to make. They were so expensive that GM had to lease them to the customers, and that meant GM had to maintain them, and parts became an issue. The whole lot of EV-1 vehicles became such a financial liability that GM crushed them.
I've only got this to say about that: If Honda had moaned about the loss they took on every Insight they sold a few years ago, they wouldn't have the hybrid power trains they have now, nor would they have the "new" Insight.
Meanwhile GM figured out the world needed Hummers and Escalades. I'm now ever so thankful for the opportunity to bail out GM with my money as we look back and applaud their forward thinking!
GM: If you want me as a customer, you have a LONG way to go. I worked for an Olds dealership from 1980 to 1982. 'nuf said.
That's the key point there. At that point, gas was cheap, gas cars were relatively affordable and the EV1 was not. It was not the right time for the car.
By comparison I have the 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. In the city I get 35-40/mpg and on the highway I get 42-55/mpg.. Seriously, the American car company hybrid offering are a joke, that and the Ford Hybrid was priced almost 15k more then the fully loaded Civic I bought last year $21k.
I wish American Automakers the best but frankly I don't buy vehicles out of loyalty I buy them based on the price to performance and cost of ownership. So far American automobiles don't provide the price point to feature/quality that I am looking for.
GM does offer a line of full hybrids, including the Saturn Vue, that get much better gas mileage. In fact the Saturn Vue hybrid gets better gas mileage than anything else in it's class, including the Ford Escape hybrid (which uses a Toyota drive train.)
As for the EV-1, GM losts billions on the program. At the time they were built, there was little demand for the cars, and towards the end of it the parts were getting too expensive. You really can't fault GM for discontinuing it, but I do think perhaps they should have kept the technology and worked on it in the future. Even Bob Lutz admitted they made a mistake in that aspect, and it was the one he most regretted.
But all this doesn't change my mindset that hybrids are a waste of cash. You need $5/gallon gas just to break even on the cost difference by the time the car is paid off. Not to mention, the cars will eventually need a $5k battery change, which pretty much eliminates the advantages of them. And let's not forget that diesel engines actually offer better fuel mileage than hybrids, and cost thousands less, and don't dump a toxic 500 lbs battery somewhere in 5 years.
1) There's very little official word on battery costs yet, because no one has needed a battery replacement yet (due to wear and tear). It appears Toyota battery packs are $3000, but have only ever been used to replace a battery after an accident. According to some taxi services, their prius batteries are still fine after 200k miles.
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm
2) Battery toxicity is not, and never has been a problem with hybrids. They are fully recyclable, and toyota puts a $200 "bounty" on each battery to ensure it is recycled.
http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery
And sorry, but there are still no diesels here in the US that can match prius mileage. They infact DO cost thousands more - the best diesel sedan out there, the jetta tdi, costs $5000 more than the gas version.
This being said, I'm in no way against diesels. There aren't any that have matched up to the best hybrids yet, but there are some great diesels out there that get excellent mileage (like the jetta tdi), and some more environmentally friendly choices never hurt!
It's truly amazing how much ignorance or willful lies and distortion exist out there. A few minutes googling would clear it up, but some people seem to revel in their ignorance, or deliberately spread falsehoods. Strange.
We are a petroleum based society and economy. Instead of replacing every thing that uses petroleum to make them so called green... why not replace the fuel that all these products use with a green burning fuel that is a 1 to 1 alternative and will not require any special vehicle or product modifications at all.
Bio fuels are the best alternative to standard petroleum and ls9 can produce a 1 to 1 ratio of bio mass petroleum that burns clean. http://www.ls9.com
Billions being wasted on technology that cannot even come close to replacing petroleum is down right stupid..not to mention the environmental impact of the creation and disposal of these so-called hybrid green technologies
http://www.ls9.com
The debate is already here....you not looking at the true cost to make a hybrid vehicle and then add the cost of the infrastructure to support it.
Hybrids + bio fules? Hybrids are only eye candy for the public while still allowing standard petroleum to be used.
The government needs the tax revenue from petroleum and the Oil industry feeds them...that is why we dont have plug in at home electric or hydrogen vehicles because the government cannot regulate or tax when we plug in at home. The best solution is using the current infrastructure while replacing the fuel. Bio Fuels are easier to implement and will not affect the current infrastructure or consumer as much as Hybrids. This is all money and politic not the environment. The whole premise of Hybrid vehicles in lower fuel consumption and create a smaller carbon footprint.. but the contrary is more usage higher consumption and higher carbon footprint.
https://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv12n2/reg12n2-currents.html
A 20 percent improvement over 22 MPG city would be 26.4 MPG.
A 20 percent improvement over 33 MPG highway would be 39.6 MPG.
Is that really such a gargantuan breakdown?
C'mon GM. The Volt holds your future--not half hearted efforts that deliver little.
The Leaders of this Nation did not make a good Job either to get research moving in this area.
It can not work well if you use a current vehicle design, and attach a bit green thinking.
Forget hybrids. The big 3 are taking forever. I'm probably just going to buy Tesla anyway. Which is alot of people need to pay attention to. Everyone is waiting on hybrids and plug in but Tesla and Fisker are putting these other companies to shame. I while I understand the transition for the Big 3 will take a LONG time, it might take Tesla and Fisker garnering sales to get the rest of these companies to realize that they need to get on their stuff and stop tip toeing around the fact the the combustion engine is going to get replaced. Get past it.
- by liveoilfree July 26, 2009 7:01 AM PDT
- GM already HAD an Electric car, the EV1, and just needs to resume production. The two-mode hybrid system is a loser, because it ALWAYS requires use of oil to run the car (when there's high torque, the engine starts). The VOLT would be fine, but it's just like the EV1--they need to make it, and they are postponing it.
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