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August 13, 2008 4:00 AM PDT

Hybrid makeovers help owners dump the pump

by Elsa Wenzel

Countless small start-ups and Detroit automakers are trying to revive electric cars from an early grave, although there's a long road ahead before electricity might serve as a "fuel" for the masses.

In the meantime, however, a handful of companies aims to put the power cord in the hands of drivers who want to transform their gas-electric hybrids into plug-in hybrids, or to replace the internal combustion innards of other cars with all-electric systems.

The businesses are touting plug-in hybrid systems that can be driven up to 40 miles on batteries alone, with average fuel economy of 100 miles per gallon. The cars use gasoline once the batteries drain.

It can cost more than $10,000 to install a plug-in hybrid system on a Toyota Prius. Is the limited electric driving range worth the expense?

Absolutely, according to Felix Kramer, founder of CalCars, which counts nearly 200 plug-in hybrid conversions around the country. The Palo Alto, Calif.-based nonprofit in 2004 converted the first Prius with batteries that power up from an electrical outlet.

The range of 40 miles or less, likely to expand as battery makers race to make advances in the years ahead, covers most small trips Americans make in a day, he said. Therefore, Kramer views plug-ins as an ideal second car for commuters who still want to roll out the SUV for a weekend getaway.

"A conversion gives them the opportunity to say, 'I'm driving the world's cleanest extended-range vehicle,'" he added. And early adopters will pay a premium for the plug-in option, as they do for luxury extras, such as leather seats, that offer no economic payback.

The battery pack for Plug-In Supply's conversion will leave room for a tire in the spare tire well.

The battery pack for Plug-In Supply's conversion will leave room for a tire in the spare tire well.

(Credit: James Martin/CNET News)

Kramer believes that car makers will give their blessing eventually to qualified vehicle modifiers to install plug-in systems. For now, a small but growing collection of mechanics and dealers around the country will perform the service.

Among the choices already available to consumers (scroll down for comparison chart), Plug-In Supply is making conversion kits based on an open standard from CalCars.

The Petaluma, Calif., company is selling $5,000 conversions that enable a Prius to drive a maximum 20 miles on full, lead-acid batteries, or $11,000 with lithium-iron phosphate batteries. Professional installation takes a day or two and costs about another $1,000.

The battery chassis can be installed on hinges to sit handily above the spare tire compartment, although adding the heavy lead-acid kit also requires boosting the car's shocks. By contrast, $10,000 conversions from competitor A123 Hymotion of Watertown, Mass., nestle lighter nanophosphate lithium-ion batteries inside the spare tire compartment.

Drivers can charge up by connecting a power cord from an exterior panel on the Prius to a 110-volt outlet, then waiting 8 hours or less.

Plug-In Supply has shipped 30 systems, and a factory in San Jose, Calif., should produce enough kits to ship two per day later this summer, according to founder Robb Protheroe.

He's seeking $5 million in venture funding to expand and attract a following before the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid is due to roll off assembly lines late in 2010.

Protheroe described having a backlog of 75 orders and said a dozen dealers are signing up to install his systems in California, Illinois, New Mexico, New Jersey, Texas, Florida, Washington, Oregon as well as in Italy, Australia, Canada, and Germany.

"Texas is wide open right now," said Bill Kelly, who is working to establish Protheroe's plug-in conversions at an auto service center in Plano, Texas. "A lot of people are scratching their heads trying to figure out why they bought their SUVs."

Installers of Protheroe's equipment include the solar-powered, female-owned Luscious Garage, which caters to hybrid owners in San Francisco, and plans to add a space for plug-in electric hybrid conversions.

Another shop in San Francisco, Pat's Garage, has serviced hybrids since 1999. Owner Pat Cadam has been performing A123 Hymotion plug-in conversions for more than a year.

"We both share in the idea that the more of these cars that are on the road, the better," he said.

Cadam doesn't believe that electric cars will come to mass market until around 2012. Toyota's 2010 plug-in hybrid plans, he noted, are limited to a run of several hundred vehicles for fleets only.

In the interim, Cadam sees expanding the number of plug-in cars as crucial to whetting the public's appetite for electrified cars.

A123 Systems offers to convert a Prius to a plug-in hybrid with its Hymotion L5 battery.

(Credit: Martin LaMonica/CNET News)

A123 Hymotion's other approved plug-in conversion facilities include Seattle's Green Car Company and four Toyota dealerships in Boston, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, and Washington, D.C.

The kit maker, owned by battery company A123 Systems, which is filing to go public, said it has begun shipping consumer-ready systems, with the majority of orders to ship by the end of this year.

Utility Pacific Gas & Electric and Google are among the high-profile Hymotion testers. Employees at Google's Mountain View, Calif., campus found the plug-ins achieve an average 93.5 miles per gallon. (The search giant's RechargeIT initiative gave $2.75 million to electric-car start-up Aptera and battery maker ActaCell in July.)

However, the safety of plug-in hybrids came into question in June when a Prius converted by Hybrids Plus of Boulder, Col., burst into flames. That setup used battery cells from A123 Systems, but not the same kind found in its plug-in conversion kits. A third-party investigation blamed improper assembly for the fire.

A123 Hymotion insists that its crash-tested product will disconnect a battery pack automatically in the case of an impact, and meets federal safety and emissions standards. Both that company and Plug-In Supply offer 3-year warranties and assure consumers that a conversion won't void a Toyota warranty, unless plug-in alterations directly cause a failure.

Protheroe suggested that the added plug-in batteries allow the original Prius batteries to rest, perhaps extending their life.

Kim Adelman, who aims to sell plug-in installations by November, considers his use of nickel metal hydride batteries--the same brew used in the Prius--an advantage over systems with high-density lithium-ion batteries, which can be unstable if punctured in a crash.

"Safety is No. 1, of course," he said. "No. 2 is making emissions better and using less gas."

Adelman's company, Plug-In Conversions near San Diego, has 20 potential Prius owners waiting to pay between $9,750 and $19,750 to enable an electric-only range of between 8 to 30 miles.

Other passenger car conversion companies in California that appear to be in early stages of development include OEMTek and EnergyCS.

More-expensive, all-electric makeovers are also available. For $55,000, AC Propulsion of San Dimas, Calif., will convert a Scion xB to run up to 95 miles per hour, lasting 150 miles per charge.

Some consider converting gas-guzzling road hogs more important than focusing on compact or hybrid cars that are already relatively green. Former Intel chairman Andy Grove called in July for electrifying 10 million large vehicles in the United States in the next four years.

In that spirit, engineers led by professor Eli Emadi of Chicago's Illinois Institute of Technology gutted a Ford F-150 truck to install a plug-in hybrid system meant to increase fuel economy from 16 to 41 miles per gallon.

"We are targeting pickups, SUVs and vans--that's the really big market," said Emadi. "If you start with a gas guzzler that gets 12 miles per gallon or a school bus that gets 7 miles per gallon and increase that, the impact is far bigger."

His team "hybridized" the Ford's conventional drive train and then turned it into a plug-in hybrid. Nickel metal hydride batteries take up to 5 hours to charge and enable the truck to run without gasoline for 15 miles. That adds about 15 percent of the vehicle's weight to the body but also improves its torque, he said.

Emadi has spun off the technology into Hybrid Electric Vehicle Technologies, and plans to produce up to 50 more conversions at $60,000 each by 2009. He said that scaling up the technology, with a hoped-for infusion of $5 million in venture capital, should sharply cause a price drop by 2010.

And Andy Frank, known as the inventor of the plug-in hybrid, has spun-off his technology by licensing it to Efficient Drivetrains, a Palo Alto conversion company.


Evangelists of electrified, hybrid cars argue that although costs need to come down to accelerate adoption, other technical hurdles are less daunting.

Improved battery technologies are key to expanding the electric driving range, but today's storage capacity is good enough for the majority of trips, some claim.

Those who doubt the viability of electrified cars point to the lack of a public charging infrastructure, which start-ups Better Place and Coulomb are trying to address.

Yet, advocates of plug-ins say the infrastructure to charge the cars already exists in the form of 110-volt outlets found in nearly any building. And some hope that if drivers plug in only at night, tapping into unused energy from the electrical grid, then adding new power plants will be unnecessary.

Plug-in hybrids have entered the national political spotlight, as politicians praise the potential for lessening the nation's dependence on foreign oil. Those behind electrified-car start-ups hope that government support will arrive with the next administration in Washington, D.C.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama in August proposed offering a $7,000 tax credit to Americans who buy plug-in hybrids as well as loans of $4 billion to makers of efficient cars. Republican opponent John McCain called in June for a $5,000 consumer tax credit for buying zero-emissions cars and a $300 million prize for a battery maker to advance electric car technology.

"No matter how it turns out I think we've had an effect on automakers," said Adelman of Plug-In Conversions. "The feeling is just like we had with personal computers in the 1970s. We knew it was gonna change the world, and in this case it has to."

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by anusinov August 13, 2008 6:17 AM PDT
Unless we will start building nuclear power plants even in California, it is all useless. It will just double your electrical bills.
Reply to this comment
by open-mind August 13, 2008 8:01 AM PDT
That's not correct. It will take several years before electric cars reach numbers that affect overall grid demand. Also, most will charge at night when the grid is way under capacity.
by ender21 August 14, 2008 7:12 AM PDT
Additionally, since it'll cost upwards of ~8 cents an hour to charge and the longest charge time is what... 8 hours? You're looking at 64 cents per charge on the higher end. If I have to charge daily, that's $19.20/month. Considering my savings on gasoline will well exceed that, I look forward to the possibility.
by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT
Except that you've spent $10,000 buying the batteries in the first place. That's 5 years' of gasoline at $4 a gallon. But in 5 years your battery pack will be worn out and need to be replaced for another $10,000. So, tell me again how much you're gonna save? Answer: Nothing. You're paying the same as you would for gasoline just for the battery pack, PLUS the charging costs. You're actually losing money.
by neosapiens October 7, 2008 11:14 AM PDT
A variety of independent researchers have concluded that millions of plug-in hybrids could be supported by charging at night and without building any new power plants. Also, even in states with high percentages of coal-fired power plants, there is still a pollution reduction in using electric drive over gasoline. In northern CA we get only 1% of our power from coal, so plug-ins are a big environmental win. Even in So.Cal., with its high coal power rate it would help local air quality without hurting Utah's air quality.

As to whether it's cost-effective to build nuclear plants, check out the www.rmi.org website and search for the article "Forget Nuclear". Amory Lovins makes a pretty good case for investing in far more cost-effective power generation and power conservation strategies. Wasting money on nuclear power plants would actually make global warming worse, since it diverts funding from much more cost-effective ways to provide power while reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and it takes far too long for nuclear plants to be built and to save enough CO2 emissions to make up for the huge emissions that would be released during their construction. Efficiency, solar-thermal, PV, wind and even natural gas power plants would be better.
by Creamsykle August 13, 2008 6:47 AM PDT
by anusinov August 13, 2008 6:17 AM PDT "Unless we will start building nuclear power plants even in California, it is all useless. It will just double your electrical bills."
======================================================================
Seriously? I agree that nuclear power is relatively safe, but what do we do with the nuclear waste this kind of power creates? Without a safe way to store this waste, nuclear power has more negatives then positives. If you're so worried about your power bill then install a windmill and some solar panels on the roof of your house and never pay an electric bill again; hell the electric company will pay you!
Reply to this comment
by jlfelder August 13, 2008 11:21 AM PDT
The answer to spent nuclear fuel is reprocessing. 98% of the fuel rod is still usable material. It is just that the percentage of U-235 has dropped too low. Reprocessing removes the small amount of fission products that can't be used in new fuel rods and returns the bulk of the spent fuel to the start of the process to make new fuel rods. The amount of true waste products that need to be stored is tiny. Yucca Mountain is needed because we don't seem to be smart enough to recycle our spent fuel.

Really the answer to the whole nuclear waste issue is to not make any in the first place, at least none that has weapons potential and a long life. The way to do that is the Thorium breeder reactor (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor ). This reactor uses U-233, which can't make a bomb, as the primary fuel. The fission of the U-233 releases neutrons, some of which are absorbed by a thorium jacket around the reactor, which transforms the Thorium into U-233. Without U-238 around to absorb a neutron, there is no Plutonium created, so there is no bomb making material coming out of this reactor. In fact the existing supply of Plutonium could be consumed by using to jump start the breading process to create the seed U-233 needed by new reactors. Plus the fission products of this reaction are nearly all very short lived (less than 50 years), so there is no need for long term storage. In fact several of the by-products are useful medical isotopes. The molten salt version of the breader reactor also has the advantage of continuous refueling and inherently safe.
by aztec92154 August 13, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
The research I've looked up lines up with Jlfelder's... We need to look into this form of energy and stop using "The Simpsons" as our primary source of information for the effects of Nuclear Energy on the environment.
by Commander_Spock August 13, 2008 5:49 PM PDT
Re: "When read comments about the nuclear waste, I for some reason ask myself if it would be practical to send the waste to outer space someday. We could send it on its way to Pluto or some far off distant planet...." Oh No! We will promptly have you take it back to Earth. Just kidding. ;-)
by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:17 PM PDT
There is so much ignorance about nuclear waste, it's sad.

First, reprocessing gets nearly all the hot stuff. The rest cools in a water tank for 6 months. By then it's low level enough to put in concrete sealed steel drums. Load it on a truck, ship it to a boat, then sail it to an oceanic trench and dump it over the side and let it subduct back into the crust.

The real problem is that you've been told for decades that ANY level of radiation increases your risk of cancer. The fact is, that's not true. Below a certain threshold, radiation is completely harmless.

Nuclear waste is actually the least toxic byproduct of energy production known to modern technology. Far less toxic than the pollution created by coal, oil and natural gas.
by alstatr August 13, 2008 6:58 AM PDT
When read comments about the nuclear waste, I for some reason ask myself if it would be practical to send the waste to outer space someday. We could send it on its way to Pluto or some far off distant planet. I know its kind of creating another problem but at least its not on Earth...

I am only half kidding on my suggestion, has anyone actually looked into this possibility?
Reply to this comment
by jlfelder August 13, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
Tons and tons of the stuff (without reprocessing, which would eliminate most of the problem by itself), and it costs tens of thousands of dollars per kilogram to launch something into just low earth orbit. You don't want to leave it there since eventually it will reenter the atmosphere and, unless you worked very very hard on a containment vessel that could survive reentry, scatter radioactive material over hundreds of square miles. So once in orbit you would have to launch it with an upper stage to accelerate the stuff out of the neighborhood, so to speak.

Spent fuel rods are a waste product only because we scare ourselves with boogy man stories of reprocessing producing weapons grade fuel. True Plutonium is extracted from the spent fuel and can be chemically concentrated to weapons grade if the "Bad Guys (TM)" got their hands on it. So we just need to make sure that they don't. Put a fuel-rod making plant to disperse the Plutonium withing tons of new fuel rods within the same facility as the reprocessing plant. That way weapons grade Plutonium is never where Bad Guys can get at it without a full military assault, huge trucks to carry the spent or new fuel rods and a still pretty sophisticated facility to break down the fuel rods and isolate the dispersed Plutonium. All not an operation that some group hiding in a cave half way around the world is going to mount. The way we treat fueling our reactors is sort of like buying a car with a full tank of gas and when the gas tank runs dry, throwing the car away and buying another car rather than just filling up the tank. Just dumb!
by pritchet1 August 13, 2008 7:40 AM PDT
For those with issues regarding nuclear power waste remediation, check here -

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Nuclear_Remediation

Hydrogen can "neutralize" radioactive waste via "Brown's" gas. Way Cool Tech!(tm)
Reply to this comment
by jstdadd August 13, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
I only wish that the proponents of nuclear power could explain to me why San Diego Gas & Electric charges me a "decommissioning fee" for the San Onofre Nuclear Power facility. I don't get electricity for paying this fee; I can see consumers in San Diego paying this for the next few hundreds of years until it becomes unnecessary to maintain this plant. And the land the nuclear plant is on is lost for all time, unless the waste, especially the used up reactors, can be properly disposed of. The facility tried to send a used up reactor for disposal over a period of four years (maybe up to ten years) and was unable to even ship it. Now it sits in storage at the facility 'forever' since there are no plans to move it.
by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:20 PM PDT
The answer is simple. Anti-nuke activists have scared people so badly that they think nuclear waste is the most toxic substance on the planet (next to carbon dioxide), so that fee your paying is some stupid politician reacting to hysteria born of ignorance to address a problem that doesn't exist, namely the need to entomb an entire nuclear plant when it passes its life because it will be DEATH INCARNATE for ten million years.
by alt_bob August 13, 2008 7:57 AM PDT
Shades of Sierra Club's "the sky is falling!" attitude that put the USA in this situtation. They now cry for solar panels and wind and claim engineers will solve quickly and make it cheap. Here was nuclear that was effectively cheap to start, but would not give engineers the problems and time to solve what to do or how to reuse the nuclear waste. Thus insisting we "rape" other countries for their resources and use our so we can have parks they want few to use.

Another thing - I read some articles on a ?pneumatic car" that would do over 55 mph and get 125 miles per charge. A technology well know and used in tools for years, yet it is not on the lists anywhere I can see. Sierra Club must have stock in wind and solar!

We need many solutions and many businesses as the greed of business and stockholders make them single foucused as the oil companies on bottom-line and not interested in other engery forms until the bottom-line falls - that is just good business. And that is why the enviromentalists of today are a religious cult vice truely caring for their human brothers and sisters and our planet.

Bob
Reply to this comment
by jstdadd August 13, 2008 8:55 AM PDT
Regarding the 'pneumatic car'...if you look into it a little more deeply, there is the problem of providing compressed air at several thousand PSI at convenient filling stations. Not too many service stations are going to invest in several hundred thousands of dollars worth of high pressure air compressors, and then maintain the reservoir of high pressure air, for delivery to the auto owner at a cost that would beat the cost of the same power output in gasoline.
by open-mind August 13, 2008 8:15 AM PDT
Electric conversions being offered by this company appear to be impressive:

http://www.lionev.com

I have no affiliation with that company, but was impressed by the "DIY" info on their site.
Reply to this comment
by jstdadd August 13, 2008 8:52 AM PDT
Unfortunately, the owner of that company has been convicted of fraud for activities through eBay where he took money and did not deliver. You will notice on the LionEV website that if you want one of their conversions, you must first pay a large 'deposit' so they can build your vehicle. They have delivered maybe two of their Ford Ranger conversion to people who ordered them, and there are several people who have purchased their 'conversion kits' and have waited months for the parts. The website often posts "awaiting parts" notices, for things that you can buy from 50 sources on the web.

Let the buyer beware!
by open-mind August 13, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
Jstdadd, thanks for providing that info on LionEV.

After some additional web research related to "LionEV fraud", it does appear that they may be committing fraud. Either that, or LionEV is doing an amazingly ****-poor job of providing their products and service to their eager money-in-hand customers.

In hindsight, sorry I mentioned them.
by benjaminstraight August 13, 2008 8:16 AM PDT
Awesome article. Cool
Reply to this comment
by ArtInvent August 13, 2008 8:16 AM PDT
Charging a plug-in at home will probably not double your electric bill. Your AC and maybe even your fridge use more power. Also, we don't need nuclear power to go clean.

Utility companies and consumers are steadily building more renewable power, such as the massive new solar facilities in the Mojave, wind in Texas and the Midwest, rooftop solar. Plug in vehicles will be the only vehicles that will be able to take advantage of that clean power.

If we, steadily and manageably, build renewable power, while gradually migrating to plug-in vehicles, we can go 100% renewable within 25 years. In so doing, we beat high gas prices, have much cleaner air, import no oil, avoid drilling offshore and in ANWAR, support locally produced energy and energy jobs, keep more money in the US, and oh yeah, that global warming thing - it's all win. Let's just do it.
Reply to this comment
by T543212345 August 13, 2008 9:36 AM PDT
These are all good points. One might add that the existing national electrical capacity is under-utilized at certain times of the day (i.e. at night). A number of power companies are working toward building a "smarter" infrastructure that will do things like automatically charge electric cars during off-peak times.
by BogusBasin August 13, 2008 1:14 PM PDT
I am against nuclear, but I would rather go with that option than drilling for oil. I am for almost any form of energy that does not add to global warming. I don't think we need to reduce our dependency on foreign oil. I think we need to reduce our dependency on any oil. Wind, Solar and Wave. Natural clean energy. We need to act now. No drilling. No more big oil. Republican or Democrat, this is a human issue.
by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:23 PM PDT
There is no such thing as renewable energy. Second Law, my friend. The universe is winding down. Live with it.

And solar power simply doesn't provide the energy needs of an industrialized nation. If you're going to use energy from stars, I prefer supernova fragments myself. Thorium is my personal favorite.
by make_or_break August 14, 2008 8:11 PM PDT
The universe is winding down. Live with it.

I think it's safe to say that EVERYONE alive today will not be around to care when that time comes.

Personally, I think we should be exploiting Yellowstone and its geothermal potential. Heck, when THAT overdue supervolcano blows there's not going to be any Old Faithful or pretty flora and fauna left for the Sierra Club to whine over. Come to think about it, there won't be much left EAST of there, period. Who'll need a Prius--fully electric or otherwise--when all your roads are covered with thirty feet of volcanic ash?
by TV James August 13, 2008 8:21 AM PDT
Cannot wait until I can get a plug-in car or until they start making home deliveries of gasoline. I hate the time wasted at the pump and the annoyance of it all.

When I get home I plug in my iPod, my bluetooth and my phone. Wish I could plug in my car. Sure, there's a cost shift, but if it were hidden in the electricity bill, it would be out of sight, out of mind.
Reply to this comment
by theBike45 August 13, 2008 9:49 AM PDT
McCain has offered a $5,000 tax break for plug-ins and zero emissions, which mysteriously this article did not mention. I might add that Obama has high hopes that there will be 1 million plug-ins like the Volt on the streets by 2015. If co, then obviously Obama's math ain't too goood - 1 million plug-ins, even if they use no gasoline whatsoever (approximately true) will only reduce crude oil demand by less than 1/4th of 1 percent. They will , in affect, have zero effect on this country's oil demand. (We have way over 200 milllion private transportation vehicles, which account for about half our oild demand).
Reply to this comment
by elsa.wenzel August 13, 2008 12:34 PM PDT
Thank you for the comment. I've added more details about proposed energy plans from McCain and Obama.
by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:24 PM PDT
Economic ignorance strikes again.

if you have to offer a subsidy, you don't have a viable industry. If electric and solar were economically viable, you wouldn't NEED to take money from one taxpayer and give it to another.
by neosapiens October 7, 2008 11:31 AM PDT
The plug-in tax break became law last week as part of the $700Bn bailout. You're right that 1,000,000 plug-ins is only a start and that another approach, like T.Boon Pickens recommendation to use CNG in big rigs is needed to make a real dent in foreign oil. The global recession has bought us some time to get our act together, but we have to all realize that the cost of foreign oil will eventually go back up, and we won't be able to do anything meaningful about other issues like education and healthcare if we don't stop the financial drain of foreign oil.
And I realize that talk is cheap. I've put solar PV and solar hot water panels on my house and I've put money down for the plug-in upgrade on my Prius. It's going to take me years to pay for it all, but I am doing something and not just talking about it. There's just no getting around the fact that we all have to make some sacrifices, whether we do it directly by what we buy or by paying higher taxes. The candidates might not be willing to admit that this is so, but it doesn't make it any less obvious or any less inevitable. We will all end up paying something for the financial system bailouts and if we don't stop buying foreign oil and start investing in clean energy, we'll all end up working for foreigners, since we'll have to sell our businesses and our land to them to pay the trillions of dollars in debt that we'll owe.
by fokkwp August 13, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
"with average fuel economy of 100 miles per gallon. The cars use gasoline once the batteries drain." Nonsense. Running on electricity does not mean you get more miles per gallon - you are getting the miles from electricity, not gasoline.
Reply to this comment
by BogusBasin August 13, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
If you drove 70 miles on electricity only, then the batteries died, then the gas powered motor came on and got you 30 more miles at 30MPG, you just drove 100 miles on 1 gallon of gas.
by Ormond Otvos August 13, 2008 2:45 PM PDT
It's adjusted for CO2 equivalent miles per gallon of gasoline.
by Ormond Otvos August 13, 2008 2:17 PM PDT
Don't forget 3ProngPower.com, which is installing at 1500 San Pablo in the garage of Green Motors, which only sells electric vehicles -- bikes, scooters, Zenn cars (which are real cars with new electric drive trains), and electric trucks with toolboxes and full enclosure.
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by garyschmidt34 August 14, 2008 5:28 AM PDT
I would love to know how many KWHR (kilowatt hours) it takes to recharge these cars. New Jersey KWHR cost about 15 cents and I can't tell from this article what the cost actually is???
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by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:31 PM PDT
It's easy to figure. A typical sedan like the Prius requires 100 KW peak power and about 38 KW operating power. You get about 60-90 minutes on a charge (not so impressive when you look at it that way, is it). So, assume 40 KW over 90 minutes for a total of 60 kw-hours, or about $9 to charge the car. If the car got 20 miles per gallon, the same car would take $8 of gasoline (at $4 per gallon) to get the same range.
by SactoGuy018 August 14, 2008 5:32 AM PDT
While plug-in hybrids are a good idea they definitely need better battery technology to make it viable.

Fortunately, batteries made from carbon-nanotube supercapacitors may reach production by 2010, and that will make plug-in hybrids much more viable because we can cut down the battery pack size and reduce charging times drastically.
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by markb1967 August 14, 2008 7:22 AM PDT
FINALLY, someone is doing something! Wish GM and Toyota would give us those batteries that they used in the Rav-4 and EV-1 back in the 90's, those cars got 90-150 miles per charge.
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by spurs11 August 14, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
it will double someone's electrical bill but not mine. my employer's bill....who's rich!!! if companies would accept the idea of working from home, it would save vast amounts of resources and especially for the common worker. i can do my job from anywhere there's an internet connection and most people are the same. in person meetings could still be held at rent-a-conference-room-for-a-day type places. what the hell is the point of driving to work to sit there all day with your face in a puter?
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by dddouchebag August 14, 2008 2:27 PM PDT
For those dissing nuclear energy because we have no place to put it have obviously never heard of New Mexico. WIPP has been doing just this for years. http://www.wipp.energy.gov/

Electric cars do NOT solve emission or energy problems. Where do you think the electricity comes from? Coal, oil, (uranium, if we're smart). So, with a bunch of electric cars, we're going to need a lot more powerplants, most of which are coal, oil, or natural gas. All of these pollute, and one of the biggest hurdles is that transferring electricity is incredibly inefficient over long distances. Of course, once we figure out a new source of energy, then electric cars are the way to go.
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by b_baggins August 14, 2008 2:34 PM PDT
I actually did the math a few days ago based on DOE numbers on gasoline burned in 2004 in the United States and the amount of energy in a kilogram of gasoline. I factored in the relative efficiencies if IC vs. battery/electric and came up with something like the 290 gigawatts of power. A typical power plant provides 500 MW. So, you'd need to build 588 new power plants to meet the electrical demands of the 2004 U.S. automobile use. Considering that we haven't been able to get approval for ONE power plant in the last 20 years, I don't think we're going to see viable electric cars any time soon.
by bjsnider August 14, 2008 6:12 PM PDT
youve got to be kidding me. at this point, the majority of our electricity comes from COAL power plants, which aren't close to as clean as an internal combustion engine. sift through the b.s. until renewable energy is off the ground, there are only NEGATIVE environmental reasons for switching to plug-in vehicles.

the reason politicians are pushing plug-in cars is because the US has about 400 years worth of coal reserves. right now, we are EXPORTING coal. unfortunately, energy independence is NOT environmentally beneficial. hopefully we will soon figure out a solution that is both environmentally friendly and decreases our dependence on foreign energy.
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by dodgeman007 August 14, 2008 9:48 PM PDT
there are 2 very large problems with sending nuclear power plant "waste" into space, first is the cost it costs about 10 grand for every single pound you want to send, thats a whole lot, and we have had many "mistakes" that have caused the rockets to blow up, we would be able to contaminate the entire planet at once if one of these blew up in the upper atmosphere so no given todays cost and reliability record thats not going to happen maybe in the future but i hope not.
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by farmer-dave August 14, 2008 11:34 PM PDT
How does the government collect the road tax ($.17 per gallon federal, state tax in addition) on these electric vehicles? We DO need to maintain our roads, bridges and tunnels.
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