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November 20, 2008 5:00 AM PST

On second thought, Microsoft's 'I'm a PC' ads are still unbelievably lame

by Charles Cooper
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Some marketing genius decided it would be a splendid idea to plaster the subway station I arrive at in the morning with posters promoting Microsoft's "I'm a PC" campaign. So twice a day, five days a week, I'm face to face with one of the worst advertising spots in Madison Avenue's history.

Then when I get home and turn on the television, the same ads--this time in full motion color with sound--are all over the airwaves.

(Credit: Microsoft)

Get me an ice pick so I can drive it between my eyeballs and get it over with already.

I'm obviously late wading in here, but I wasn't swept up in the first round of harrumphing when the ads first hit in September. Even though I never thought the spots were very interesting, I figured Microsoft would improve upon them. Eventually. After all, this was part of a $300 million ad campaign that Microsoft planned, in part, to counter Apple's successful Mac versus PC series.

Silly me. I think Rory Carlyle's tongue-in-cheek summary says it all: "I'm a PC and my commercials are terrible."

No doubt there's someone high up in the Redmond bureaucracy who believes it's possible to corporately manufacture cool. But it just won't wash. When I was a kid, an advertisement for Bic pens ripped off a popular counterculture phrase of the era with the corny television refrain, "Write on." (Get it? Write on, not "right on." Ugh.)

As contrived as that was, it paled compared with this stinker from IBM for its now-defunct line of PS/2 computers...(How you gonna do it?...You're gonna PS/2 it") Vanilla Ice couldn't have done worse. A friend who worked in Big Blue's marketing department at the time candidly allowed that the jingle would have had better success as a WASP rap ditty.

The production quality of Microsoft's "I'm a PC" spots is higher, but technical excellence alone can't compensate for the core problem: conceptually, the ads fall flat. Maybe it's me but parading a bunch of goofs all declaring that they're "a PC" and I'm thinking it's "Stepford Wives" time. If the idea was to counter the impression fostered by Apple's series of lacerating Mac ads, Microsoft should rethink its original assumption. Now that Steve Ballmer says he's no longer thinking about Yahoo, he should devote a few brain cells to cleaning up this mess.

The ads simply grate. As John Gruber put it in a post a while ago:

"And so what makes Microsoft's new "I'm a PC" commercials so jaw-droppingly bad is that they're not countering Apple's message, but instead they're reinforcing it. That the spots themselves jump between dozens of different people who "are" PCs, that the spots make a point of emphasizing that there are a billion Windows-running PCs worldwide, this only emphasizes that "PC" is not a brand name but a generic."

"Microsoft's new ads emphasize the same message as Apple's: that the Mac is the one and only brand-name computer in the world."

Write on. Err, right on.

Charles Cooper has covered technology and business for more than 25 years. Before joining CNET News, he worked at the Associated Press, Computer & Software News, Computer Shopper, PC Week, and ZDNet. E-mail Charlie.
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by sparrowhyperion November 20, 2008 5:35 AM PST
I think Microsoft should have just reversed the PC vs Mac commercials. Show some cool celebrity for the PC showing what the PC can do, and use some overpriced looking artsy craftsy bohemian spouting messages that add up to, No you want to do it our way for the Mac.
Reply to this comment
by alstatr November 20, 2008 5:48 AM PST
I think that would have made for some great commercials. I wish apple would let me rename the names of my pictures within iPhoto. And I know I can export them to a folder > rename them > and import them again but it is not a good option. I can also import them using image capture and rename them before I import them into iPhoto but I want to use iPhoto.
by mmichaels November 20, 2008 5:56 AM PST
Now THAT would be funny! Make the Mac guy look like a dope-smoking hippie rambling on about something to do with pretty colors.
by Philips November 20, 2008 6:08 AM PST
There are few people out there who can outwit Hodgman...
by ausernamenoonehaschosen November 20, 2008 7:41 AM PST
Alstatr, you can rename your photos in iPhoto. Click on the name in the info window (bottom lieft) and change the name.
by Perry_Clease November 20, 2008 7:59 AM PST
"Alstatr, you can rename your photos in iPhoto. Click on the name in the info window (bottom lieft) and change the name."

It doesn't change the file name, just the name it displays in iPhoto. If you look at the file via the finder you will see it is still the original name. It is no secret that I am a big Apple Fan Boy, but I wish that Apple would fix this situation. Do what I have done several times, give Apple feedback. Under the iPhoto menu in iPhoto is an item to "Provide iPhoto Feedback", it will take you to a form on Apple's website. It is the same for other iLife products. Complain about it, the squeaky wheel get the grease.
by mathue_tax November 20, 2008 12:55 PM PST
I guess what I see and don't see in these commercials is much to recommend Vista. Couple this with the really bad webcam footage they are using from single users in some of the commercials. Why on earth would I want to do a video chat and look and sound like a REALLY badly compressed YouTube video? I suppose they have deliberately done this to make it look gritty and genuine but it just comes off as looking awful.

All in all I don't understand where MS is putting this 300 million into, and why aim some of the ads it at Apple with their 3% world share. It just has this bizarre overkill taste to it and I can't be the only one that gets that vibe.

The HP commercials do a better job of promoting Windows than MS's ads do.
by gogmaerik November 20, 2008 7:02 PM PST
I think people should realize its just a f^&king computer. To those that can't separate that fact, and believe that it's some lifestyle choice that shows some non-conformist extension of their personality......GET A F&*KING LIFE! Both platforms can access porn and email just as easily, but mac boots up 25 seconds faster so I guess there is that bonus.

written from my macbook pro, but just as easily could have been written by my vista fujitsu tablet.
by Renegade Knight November 21, 2008 11:46 AM PST
That would be simple and effective if they had the right scriptwriters. It's not like Mac doesn't leave plenty of ammo to work with laying around.
by imacpwr November 22, 2008 10:28 PM PST
Alstatr..

Stop, you're NOT a PC so stop thinking like one.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#iphoto-organize-3
by Mr. Dee November 20, 2008 5:40 AM PST
Mac vs PC is just as unsuccessful, if it was making an impact, it would be on over 1 billion computers. For a Company that is said to pioneer personal computing, you would have expected them the dominate it by now. You and John Gruber fail to see something, no matter how uncool Microsoft and Windows may be to your niche its still the number one choice whether we like it or not. It has the most apps and some of the best, some of the coolest form factors and its obvious plethora of choices. Apple is another example choice in the world of PC's, if I want to run Windows on it I can. So, your conclusion that I'm A PC is uncool and does not make any significance, really doesn't matter, the world will continue to choose Windows and Office whether you like it or not.
Reply to this comment
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 6:51 AM PST
Eh? Set unrealistic expectations much?

By your logic, the Dodge Ram commercials should've sold 100 million trucks. freecreditreport.com should have the entire computer-using Internet as its customer base right now.

Also, not every pioneer manages to make it, else we'd all still be flying airplanes made by Curtiss-Wright instead of Boeing and Airbus.

Apple nearly killed themselves by bad management and hubris. Fortunately for them, they learned their lesson and are now coming back. MSFT is starting to hemorrhage customers now because of Ballmer's hubris and bad management. And so it goes...

/P
by protagonistic November 20, 2008 6:56 AM PST
Let's see, Mac desktop and laptop sales are up, a lot of my PC friends are asking me if I saw the latest Mac - PC ads, and more of my Windows using friends are taking a serious look at buying a Mac. By just about any standards but yours that would seem to make the ads pretty successful.

None of the people I know want to go to the MS site and see if they can view the latest I'm a PC ads. Quite a few of them do go to Apple's site to see if they have missed any of the ads. The author is right, the MS ads are very lame and MS should go to the ad agency and ask for their money back. And the lamest part is at the end where they flash the message about a world without walls because you are using Windows. Someone had their head you know where on that one. If you have no walls you need no Windows.
by faboumen November 20, 2008 7:04 AM PST
You said twice "whether we/you like it or not." Just think about it. Such arrogance always leads to downfall over time, and you are already seeing it happen, but slowly. Apples commercials aren't meant to to result in "over 1 billion computers" being Macs -- they are doing JUST fine at the rate they are growing now. Their commercials work since they do poke fun (and ARE funny) at the so called top dog -- even though they have managed to confuse what "a PC" is, in the minds of a lot of consumers. MS has only cared about competition and not customers, so they seem so distant from customers and seem to have no idea how to be impactful even with so many millions in marketing.
by Kaiser.a November 20, 2008 7:38 AM PST
If the Mac vs PC ads were so unsuccessful why did Microsoft bother to answer back? Don't you that Microsoft is spending 300 millions because they are losing out. Couple of percentage points gained by Apple may not look like much to you, but it does to Microsoft
by ausernamenoonehaschosen November 20, 2008 7:45 AM PST
The first time my wife saw one of the "I'm a PC" ads she said, what in the hell was that suppose to say. I think most of the public probably thinks this too.
by kelmon November 20, 2008 8:36 AM PST
Yes, I have to agree with the other responders here. The "I'm A Mac" adverts have given Apple exposure that, in conjunction with the Apple Stores, has been highly profitable over the last few years. It is unclear as to whether the "I'm a Mac" adverts have actually made a sale but they have at least introduced people to Apple, that there is an alternative to Microsoft Windows, and that they might step into an Apple Store to see what the fuss is about. In contrast, the "I'm a PC" adverts have introduced us to a company that we all know, usually don't like very much, and has said nothing that would make us buy a Windows PC.

I consider myself a realist - the world probably will continue to buy Windows for the foreseeable future unless someone produces something better (definition of better clearly depending on the audience) and Microsoft effectively sets fire to their business in a similar way that Apple did in the early 90s. That said, Apple's marketing has worked sufficiently well that it is helping them to make record sales so it's working out nicely for them.

At the end of the day, you need to generate sales from your marketing and Apple is doing that whereas Microsoft still seems to be "out to lunch".
by wango2007 November 25, 2008 10:54 AM PST
We hate "dirty tricks" ads in politics, but somehow Apple seemed to get away with their negative ad campaign against Windows. But Apple has been as unethical in their ads as any desperate politician.

Apple had nearly 30 years to get market share, but Jobs failed back then and is failing now. The Mac OS only has a tiny share of the market, and Mac sales have only edged upward by a little in recent years because the Mac now runs Windows.
by alstatr November 20, 2008 5:43 AM PST
The one thing that I think about each time I see a "I'm a PC" commercial is that Microsoft has missed the point of advertising; convince me to buy something. They tell me almost nothing about Windows and why I should buy a computer with Windows, not that Apple's commercials are exactly explaining why I should buy a Mac but at least they, in an entertaining way, explain differences between a Mac and a Windows PC and do some selling of features. All I get from the "I'm a PC" commercials is that a lot of people use them...something most people already know. I do think that the "I'm a PC" commercials with brief explanations of things you can do with a computer running Vista are a step in the right direction but seems like Microsoft has wasted a lot of money getting to the actual advertising.
Reply to this comment
by Good_Reverend_Gibbs November 20, 2008 5:54 AM PST
See Windows Mojave Expirement Commercials. The users talk about the things they like in Windows Vista.
by supoman November 20, 2008 6:14 AM PST
The idiot that come up with the Windows mohave commercials should be shot. Maybe they were in elementary school when the OS/2 Warp commercials were out but they are doing the exact same thing!!! And you see how well that turned out for IBM!!! If the OS is so slick and cool SHOW IT!!! And besides. Vista proves that window dressing(no pun intended) is not all it's cracked up to be. You actually need a stable OS beneath all the bells and whistles.
by alstatr November 20, 2008 6:17 AM PST
I forgot about those ones. Those were probably the more successful commercials of the campaign.
by sbeat November 20, 2008 6:27 AM PST
As a quick note to your earlier comment about renaming photos in iPhoto: do a search for "renaming" in the help, and the second or third down should be a topic called "Renaming a photo." From there the help file will explain how to change the title of a single photo, or batch change a group of photos. The file name itself is not changed, but any prints with the title visible will show this new "title" (I believe it saves the title in metadata). Additionally if you were to subsequently export the image(s), there is an option to export with this title rather than the file name.
I am using iPhoto '08, but I believe its the same in previous versions.
Hope that helps.
by alstatr November 20, 2008 6:37 AM PST
sbeat, I do know about this option. I would like the filename changed because I upload the photos on a website that I manage. I'm using gallery2 to display the photos for a running website. There are meets the team goes to each year and I would like the photos to be named lccinvite2008_001.jpg and so on so that users can download photos outside of their album structure they still know enough information about the picture from the filename. It may be overkill but I have upwards of 10000 photos on the website and it helps keep things in order.
by sbeat November 20, 2008 7:39 AM PST
I'm sorry about that alstatr, I misundertood your actual need. And with that number of photos, I certainly don't think logical naming is overkill at all.
by behni November 20, 2008 8:18 AM PST
alstatr: I refuse to use iPhoto for exactly this reason. I use only Photoshop (for resizing, etc) and Graphic Converter (viewing).
by javajeff818 November 20, 2008 5:47 AM PST
The advertising campaign is really bad and reinforces "low quality" as an underlying theme when many people submit low quality videos. These low quality videos can never compete against high quality professionally shot advertising. I also agree that PC is an incredibly generic term considering that there are many operating systems that support it. Why does Microsoft not promote Windows? That is their competitor to the Mac OS. The good news is that I know exactly how to counter the MAC ads, but they would have to pay me for the answer.
Reply to this comment
by Kev_Orng November 20, 2008 8:33 AM PST
If I was trying to counter the Mac ads I wouldn't hire any of those people who think it's all caps like an acronym.
If you go to the trouble of holding down the shift key to type MAC, then you must think the M A C stands for something, and therefore have demonstrated insufficient understanding of the product. How do you expect to develop an effective campaign against a product you don't understand? But more importantly, before I choose another agency, what exactly do you think the letters M.A.C. stand for?
by kelmon November 20, 2008 8:40 AM PST
In reality, Microsoft doesn't really need to market Windows in a similar kind of way that Kleenex doesn't really need to market their tissues - their product is already synonymous with something. The problem here is that Microsoft is just throwing money away when they don't need to. If I were a Microsoft shareholder then I want to see sales generated by the marketing being performed, or at least that the flow of customers to competitors ceases.
by Good_Reverend_Gibbs November 20, 2008 5:50 AM PST
I think this article is lame and most likely written on a Mac. I agree with Mr. Dee's final comment about the world will continue to choose Windows and Office whether you like it or not. Apple has run commercials trashing Windows for years. Give MS time to hone their skills at commercial making. I'd like to read reviews on the "beige" commercials. Anything Microsoft does no matter how great or terrible will always have stones thrown at it. That has always been the nature of the MS vs. Apple war. Here Cooper, you can have this for free -- The next Windows is called Windows 7? What, they couldn't get the first 6 right?
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by protagonistic November 20, 2008 7:01 AM PST
If they "hone their skills at commercial making" like they debug their OS I guess I can look forward to never seeing a good ad from them. :-)
by dhavleak November 20, 2008 5:51 AM PST
Mr. Cooper -- you have it dead wrong. Dead wrong.

I'm a PC, and I loved those ads. Apple ads are all about being pretentious. Trying to be cool. Being snooty, holier than thou, etc.

The PC ads just take the high road. The message is "I am secure with who I am, and my uniqueness in this world, and I'm a PC".

I repeat -- you got it Dead Wrong. The flavors of people in the PC ads represent the flavors of PCs you can get in the real world. They represent the real uses that PCs get put to. They do so without apology, without false pretenses and false arguments, and most importantly, without putting the competition down.
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by tipoo_ November 20, 2008 6:33 AM PST
i'm a pc and i agree.
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 6:54 AM PST
I'm not a PC - I merely use them (and most of them don't run Windows).

Unlike the "PC's" of this world, I'm not intellectual sheep. ;)
by protagonistic November 20, 2008 7:04 AM PST
You are the one who is wrong. Most people I know can remember watching at least one Mac vs PC ad. Most do not remember seeing the I'm a PC ads. And most of these people use Windows. If an advertising line is that forgettable then it has to be classed as a failure.
by kelmon November 20, 2008 8:45 AM PST
"Apple ads are all about being pretentious. Trying to be cool. Being snooty, holier than thou, etc."

Actually, they're about telling people that there is an alternative to Windows. Perhaps they come across to you in the way that was intended but let's not forget that only a few years ago, most people hadn't heard of Apple or knew that you could buy a computer without Microsoft Windows. In this respect the adverts work very well and I have no doubt that they contribute to the dramatic increases in sales that Apple has been experiencing.

Sorry, but the article is spot on - the "I'm a PC" adverts do nothing to increase Microsoft's sales.
by CrashPad63 November 20, 2008 12:09 PM PST
No penguine youre just a lonely pissant who cant seem to come to terms with your own inadequacies.
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 2:01 PM PST
Defensive much, Crash?

Oh, wait - you're a PC. ;)

/P
by imapc999 November 20, 2008 4:23 PM PST
I'm a pc and I also agree that this article is another hyperbolic display of Mac insecurity.

Those I'm a PC/Mac ads have gone on for so long. Who, but the most insecure company would unflinchingly run negative ads plastered across the front page of the NYTimes and a vast assortment of other media for several years without a break. Apple just can't get the picture that all style, no substance doesn't sell computers. I would hope that computer users are more layered, complex, and substantive than to fall for fanboy propaganda. clearly they are. Look how long it has taken for Microsoft to fight back with their ads. They don't care about Apple's whiny ad campaign. Microsoft just laughs all the way to the bank with a 90% market share.

And I love the average joe image of the PC. That's who I want to identify with. Not the haughty, self-absorbed, uppity clown fanboys from the Apple camp.

I'm a designer, a filmmaker, and a gamer and I use a PC.
by Dalkorian November 21, 2008 12:01 PM PST
by dhavleak November 20, 2008 5:51 AM PST
I'm a PC, and I loved those ads.

by tipoo_ November 20, 2008 6:33 AM PST
i'm a pc and i agree.

------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, the mentality of masochistic winblows apologists never fails to amaze me. Hint for you both - you are likely people, not PC's. You USE PC's because you're sheep who feel scared when you're responsible for your own computer, so you shill for the one company that feels it's their right ... no, make that their OBLIGATION ... to control what your computer does. While you're jumping through hoops trying to get a handle on WGD, the malicious software removal tool, anti-virus, spyware, adware, crapware that came pre-installed, defragging and running scandisk to check for disk errors the OS is trying to hide from you - real computer users are getting real work done. Not scanning the machine for cruft, not defragging the file system again and again, not reacting to BSOD's whenever they try to do something ordinary (what junkware OS crashes that hard verifying backup disks? Only winblows ex-pee, when the files were created with sp3 and verified on a machine running sp2. Ubuntu had no problems verifying the disks. It didn't crash in any way and it didn't force me to reinstall the entire OS due to curruptions caused by those crashes either. Ex-pee did though. Notice the backup disks were CREATED with ex-pee to begin with!)

Winblows apologists are all disgusting masochists. Period. Winblows is nothing more than a game console to me, if I want to WORK with my computer I boot Ubuntu. At my job, my computer is a Mac - in fact virtually all computers here are Macs (the big server runs AIX, we might have a masochist or two who still demands winblows on their laptops throughout the entire company). No virus issues whatsoever, these things "just work". It's not just a saying, it's a fact of life.

It's no wonder winblows apologists like these boring, please kill me now commercials from their owners. M$ tells them what they want to hear, "everyone else is just like you - be like the rest - follow the crowd, don't ever lead". It's comfortable for them and they need all the comfort they can find.
by jessiethe3rd November 23, 2008 6:01 AM PST
Seriously... this is well spoken and well said. The high road.
by jessiethe3rd November 23, 2008 6:04 AM PST
Seriously... this is well spoken and well said. The high road. And for the idiot that talks about "intellectual sheep" let's be honest here - any moron buying a Mac or a PC and doing it as a status symbol (which of course is predominant in the Mac community) is not only a sheep they are also a slave to their own ego and finding happiness in a name brand.
See more comment replies
by ps_martin November 20, 2008 5:52 AM PST
This whole Microsoft and Crispin Porter + Bogusky campaign is a fairly lame attempt at manufacturing
'coolness'. Fast Company ran a cover story in their June 2008 edition on Alex Bogusky and asks "Can this dude make Microsoft cool?" I think the answer is pretty obviously, "No."

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "Cool is as cool does." One thing "cool" wouldn't do...spend $300 million trying to convince people that it really, really is cool.
Reply to this comment
by miroslodki November 20, 2008 5:56 AM PST
Charles,
On the contrary

I think these commercials put a real human touch to the real life enabling capabilities of a Microsoft platform - sort of reminds me of the feel of TED (http://www.ted.com/)
Others have commented that Apple/Mac's are less elitist in their positioning - that's one spin on perspective
The other is that Mac's closed architecture is actually further afield from Microsoft on the closed vs open source scale.

don't get me wrong - I enjoy the wittiness of the Mac spots and Microsoft has earned some of the stones being thrown at it - but I also think there are some people that would tear down whoever was in the #1 spot just for the sport of it.

cheers
Miro
I am PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg

http://miroslodki.wordpress.com
Reply to this comment
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 6:55 AM PST
Closed?

http://www.apple.com/opensource/

...where's MSFT's equivalent, and why isn't the core of Windows open source like OSX' is?
by Dalkorian November 21, 2008 12:02 PM PST
There you go again Peng, torturing winblows apologists with facts. They don't like that, it makes them scared.
by dhavleak November 20, 2008 5:59 AM PST
Man, this article annoyed me so badly I ended up having to post a second time. Here's what's bothering me: the latest Mac ad that seems to be playing on TV has pc-guy doing some budgeting at the table, putting the lions share towards advertising, and a pittance towards fixing Vista. Finally after Mac-guy is done, pc-guys decides fixing Vista isn't worth it, and decides to put everything towards advertising instead.

Here are the issues I have with this ad:
1. Consider how many Apple ads you've seen over the years. Consider how many MS ads you've seen over the years. Apple *definitely* has a larger advertising budget than MS -- much larger.
2. Now consider the relative revenues of the two companies -- MS is larger by far.
3. So basically, it's *Apple* that skews it's budgeting heavily towards advertising.
4. There's nothing wrong with Vista.
5. We've already got SP1 for Vista, with SP2 supposed to be coming next year sometime, and Win7 in the works as well. So MS is spending **** loads of money on engineering.

So what I can't understand is -- how is it that you (Charles Cooper) have no problem with such disgusting and deceitful ads from Apple, but you'll write a whole ********* column dissing the PC ads??
Reply to this comment
by protagonistic November 20, 2008 7:15 AM PST
When even MS seems to be saying we are going to release Windows 7 instead of fixing Vista you have to wonder. The ad seems to have struck a sore point with you. That usually happens when the point being made is true. These Mac vs PC ads would not be possible if it were not for the reputation MS has of releasing new OSs instead of fixing the one they already sell.

It is perception rather than reality that makes an ad work. And the Mac vs PC ads are quite good at pointing out perceived problems with Windows. But when perception and reality are close to matching each other then the ads become very effective.
by The_Decider November 20, 2008 7:27 AM PST
MS is spending ****loads of money on ****ty engineering.

There is nothing wrong with Vista? A bloated resource hog that offers nothing of value for the wasted cycles and excessive memory use, whose lame security roadblocks have already been broken isn't wrong?

There is nothing right about Vista. Epic Fail.
by kelmon November 20, 2008 8:51 AM PST
The problem with the "I'm a PC" adverts is that they don't work, which is what the article was about. It's spending money for no benefit and continuing the thing that we all know, which is that Microsoft doesn't know how to market its products. In contrast, whether it is because they are lying or not, Apple's marketing does work and they've got the sales figures to back it up with. It's all about getting the most sales for your marketing buck.
by ssicomputers November 20, 2008 8:53 AM PST
@protagonistic

You do realize that Windows 7 IS Windows Vista, right? I love the mac fanboys already using Windows 7 as some sort of justification that Vista is failed, dead, or whatever. Especially when MS is actually just adopting Apple's model (though not intentionally, i'd admit) of incremental "major" upgrades.

So, in actuality, Windows 7 IS fixing the OS they already sell. Much like Snow Leopard is going to be an incremental fix of all the problems that Leopard currently has. (admit it, there are problems.)

And to answer your perception v. reality point: Yes, the Mac ads are wonderful at skewing perception towards what they want people to see as reality. Unfortunately, Apple has done a great job of extending the perception of a reality that effectively ended 12-14 months ago. Specifically, Vista is a very stable OS at this point and actually has the 3rd party driver support it should have had at launch. Not to mention the fact that app compatibility is vastly improved, and current hardware spec'd properly w/o crapware from a big OEM runs Vista quite well.

I can personally attest to over 8mos. of consistent easy installs and happy customers with new builds running Vista. Now, what I attest it to is the big OEMs nasty habits of all kinds crapware that tends to make a new machine run badly to begin with. Add to that underspec'ing due to the race to the bottom in pricing and you get a perfect storm of perceived "Vista" problems.

My customers tend to come in with Mac v PC ads in their heads, and while we don't pressure-sell them, we encourage them to give Vista a chance and have our lowest-spec'd system running it in our showroom. Usually, once we show them that it runs fine, doesn't have any problems and especially doesn't have the problems that the largely disingenuous Mac ads say they do, they trust us and follow our advice. That being said, if someone absolutely wants XP, we don't push them.

However, my Vista customers are infinitely easier to support and i've had less calls and spyware issues from them than my XP customers.

It all comes down to knowledge, quality and service. That's why we try to steer people away from the big OEMs. Coincidentally, that's what Apple has done well in the past with their service.
by ssicomputers November 20, 2008 8:57 AM PST
@The_Decider

Your comment is an epic fail. Why don't you go to your bedroom and let mommy and daddy talk?

Seriously. Weren't you paying attention when OSX was exploited and cracked faster than Vista was in a hacking challenge? Choosing to forget that Vista has had less vulnerabilities than OSX has since launch?

Vista is finally a good secure MS OS. I sincerely hope you Mac folks finally get above 20% market share, hell, i'd love to see 50% because then you'll finally be targeted by the malware writers because it'll finally be profitable to do so. That's when we'll see how Apple does answering exploits and locking down their OS. They really haven't been tested yet.

You obviously haven't touched Vista on decent hardware. It runs great.
by Kev_Orng November 20, 2008 9:03 AM PST
@ssicomputers; I've been on Leopard for about three months now and I've only had one major hang, which I think was caused by After Effects, not Leopard. I've had no other bugs or glitches. Before that I was on Tiger 4.11, and I haven't seen a decrease in stability. Admittedly, I jumped straight to 10.5.5, so I missed the version .0 - .4 hiccups.

I'm a power user working with processor-intensive programs most of the time, like Final Cut and AE.
by ssicomputers November 20, 2008 9:12 AM PST
@kev_orng

Fair enough. I'll never argue that MacOS is a stable platform. That being said, there have been reports of problems, be it touchpad issues, app issues, bugs at launch that needed patched, etc. It's interesting that you had to point out that it was an app that caused your hang, because that's typically the only issue that i've seen with Vista on a properly built PC... third parties. Which, admittedly, will always be a problem for Windows, due to the nature of the openness of the platform.

Apple's biggest strength is the closed nature of their hardware. MS has to support infinite combinations of hardware, third-party drivers, third-party software, accessories, etc. That's where most of its problems lie.

Vista itself is extremely stable. I've not had one bluescreening Vista PC in a year that wasn't caused by hardware. I've had a very very small number of hanged machines and/or boot loops, again, mostly due to hardware. Unfortunately, Apple has done a great job of making people believe THEIR Vista reality, not the one that exists.

Now, Vista certainly has some shortcomings... memory utilization is its big achilles heel, and they will be answering that with Windows 7, which at this point is basically an incremental major-minor upgrade a'la Apple. I'm not arguing, actually. I'd like to see major fixes not a more semi-annual to annual basis. I think that would go a long way to fixing some of their problems.
by Kev_Orng November 20, 2008 10:06 AM PST
Currently my biggest gripe with Vista is that I have this co-op student sitting here complaining about the idiosyncrasies of Vista on his personal laptop, and I'm wondering when he's going to stop trying to make his personal computer play nice with the office wifi network, and start logging footage like he's supposed to.

Our oldest edit suite is a 13-year-old Windows NT4 box running Avid. And the OS may look clunky and dated, but it seems pretty solid to me. Sure, it's not allowed on the Internet, but it does the job very well, so kudos to MS for NT4. but of course, I have to go say, quit fiddling with Vista and get on that NT4 machine and get to work!

I'm working on the Mac Pro. WinNT is for Co-op kids.
by The_Decider November 20, 2008 11:08 AM PST
ssicomputers,

You should learn something about computers before putting that word in your handle.

That "exploit" was a year in the making and they held off on it for the contest.

Meanwhile, Vista and XP get owned by 12 year old kids every day. I would spend time explaining the difference between an exploit in a lab and in the wild, but you obviously don't have the background

OSX is not perfect but it is infinitely more secure than and Windows based OS. Anyone who claims XP or Vista is more secure than OSX has no business using a computer.
by The_Decider November 20, 2008 11:10 AM PST
ssicomputers,

Forgot to add: Another sign of a clueless computer user is one that trots out the security through obscurity myth. Windows gets ripped apart every day because it is easier. 12 year old kids can do it, but can not exploit OSX(or Linux).

Apache on Linux is the #1 web platform, by far. Guess what gets exploited the most? MS servers. Why? BECAUSE IT IS EASY.

Attackers go after the low hanging fruit, nothing is lower then Windows.
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by irondog1970 November 20, 2008 5:59 AM PST
The "cool" ads are the HP adds that show people what they do with their laptops. The HP adds are good. Microsoft has a different problem in trying to sell an operating system.

"Mojave" shows that Microsoft failed in its launch of Vista. If you have to convince your audience to re-introduce themselves to the latest & greatest operating system--that is ipso facto a failure.
Reply to this comment
by alstatr November 20, 2008 6:21 AM PST
I would agree on the HP ads. If I were in the market for a PC it would be an HP because they sell me on things I can actually use the computer and windows to do. This is the point that I think Microsoft is missing with its current ad campaign.
by fidlrjiffy November 20, 2008 8:34 AM PST
That is exactly the point! Don't try to sell the operating system, sell the apps, sell the functionality. Every Mac vs PC shows things that Windows does perfectly well. Sell it! Sell the vast galaxy of software at Best Buy for your home, your kids, that you can't get for the Mac. Sell what the Mac does out of the box is fine but beyond that you're pretty much out of luck. Sell Windows Update! I mean how cool is it that you get things that make Windows better for free. And not because Windows needs fixing. Imagine if your car got tweaked for better mileage every once and a while instead of having to buy a new car. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the car, now does it?
by Renegade Knight November 21, 2008 11:53 AM PST
True that. HP does a great job with ads. Mac adds just tell me how cool I am. PC adds just tell me that "I'm part of a big crowd". HP adds say, "check out what you can do, and we can help?"
by ducttape36 November 20, 2008 6:07 AM PST
I think the low quality videos help appeal to the masses. Just like a pair of jeans in the mac commercials do vs a guy in a suit. but that aside, I think mac is dropping the ball on their ads as well. I know when I saw the ad making fun of microsoft for spending money on advertising, i couldnt help but think it was hypocritical . After all, how much did they spend on advertisments? and they have the guff to knock advertising-- in their own advertisment? Their ads are getting to the point of fanboy bickering, and we have enough of that on the internet. Frankly, I'm sick of both campaigns. Mac need s new campaign, and microsoft should at least go back to the Gates/Seinfeld thing. at least that was interesting to watch.
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by Zandora777 November 20, 2008 6:07 AM PST
I am not an Apple user. However, these "I'm a PC" ads are retarded, and they make me want to hide the fact I use a PC. They were trying to give away T-shirts w/ this moniker on them at WinHEC earlier this month, and most people wouldn't take them. This is the worst ad campaign in history.
Reply to this comment
by man_w_balls November 20, 2008 6:21 AM PST
"4. There's nothing wrong with Vista."

LOL! Dream on, hamwort.
Vista FAIL
Mac WIN

Mac OS X is faster on the same hardware than Vista. I have done this experiment on a laptop with 1.8GHz Intel CPU, 512MB RAM, etc. The lowest-priced mac (~$500) is faster than the lowest-priced Vista PC (~$300 ?) because THE SOFTWARE IS BETTER. Vista is an admitted failure, and corporate IT infrastructure is the evidence. The most elite hackers have moved from Windows to OSX86, because they can now do it all on one box.
Reply to this comment
by tipoo_ November 20, 2008 6:36 AM PST
you kind of stabbed yourself in the foot there by saying the lowest priced PC is 60% the cost of the lowest priced mac.


which is wrong by the way, there is no mac that starts at 500.
by pjhenry1216 November 20, 2008 6:49 AM PST
Ummm... the "most elite hackers" use neither Macs nor Windows. Macs still get cracked a lot faster than Windows. I doubt these "elite hackers" would opt for Macs. They'll go for a Linux distro.
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 7:01 AM PST
"you kind of stabbed yourself in the foot there by saying the lowest priced PC is 60% the cost of the lowest priced mac. "

Heh - the "lowest priced PC" is a bucket of grey-market parts flying in loose formation, and are generally regarded as disposable. See also eBay.

--

"Macs still get cracked a lot faster than Windows."

If that were true that the malware world would be swimming in OSX malware. Yet all they managed was to eke out one convoluted trojan for it. Millions upon millions of machines, most not running A/V and most running 24/7... you'd think a criminal smart enough to research software flaws would've taken advantage of it by now.

Oh, that's right... by and large they can't. Meanwhile, millions upon millions of Windows machines are turned into some script kiddie's personal property on a daily basis. Therein lies the diff between the contrived 'contests' you cling to and the real world.
by ssicomputers November 20, 2008 9:05 AM PST
@penguinisto

You have no grasp of basic economics. Why would a malware writer even BOTHER with a Mac exploit when they can attack 90% of the market (in other words, PCs) for the same effort.

There have been numerous tested vulnerabilities in MacOS, and a vulnerability is an opening for an exploit. All it takes is for someone to create the exploit.

That being said, Vista has had less vulnerabilities in the same period of time to date than OSX has. When it becomes profitable (maybe when Mac finally gets over 25% of the market in 2050?) to do so, then you'll start having to deal with what us PC folks do.
by Kev_Orng November 20, 2008 9:57 AM PST
@ssicomputers. Why would a malware writer bother with Mac? Because we mac users are notoriously cocky about it. That's reason enough. I'm sure you understand the hacker mentality well enough to know that anybody who walks around claiming, "You can't hurt me, I am invincible" is going to get beaten within an inch of his life by bad guys who take that as a personal challenge, and damn the economics of it.

By all social standards, I should be inundated with with viruses and trojans that pop-up messages like, "Hey, invincible Mac guy, I just deleted your User folder"

Economics, pfft. Hacker cred to the guy who makes the exploit possible and repeatable over the long term, and without having to send someone in to direct the browser to a certain page. Problem is, the biggest security hole in computing is the one between the users ears, and hackers have to rely on that to crack the Mac. And I know I'm safe there.

I know I'm not invincible. But I've never been cracked. My virus checker routinely comes up empty.
by The_Decider November 20, 2008 11:13 AM PST
ssicomputers,

You obviously know nothing about the hacker community, nor do you understand computers.

Don't you realize that MS adds functions into their API that anyone can use to spy on the user and take over the machine? MS is insecure by design.

IE has access to kernel level functions. IE is always very, very easy to exploit. Guess what that means?

Once again, Windows is the low hanging fruit, which is why it gets attacked.

Marketshare and security are mutually exclusive.
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 12:25 PM PST
Kev_Orng nailed it...

Seriously, in the Windows world, you can gather up a quick pile of zombies, sure... but then you have to defend them from another bot-herder's theft, worry about having enough of them stay alive for long enough to make them useful, and deal with crap machinery.

Now contrast that with millions of potential bots where the owner never knows you're there, never bothers to scan for threats, no competition from other bot-herders, and all the machines are pretty homogenous in makeup.

Crap - forget economics - which one do you think will generate the most profit?

Of course, this assumes that OSX was somehow as easy to crack as Windows. Fact is, it's not. Not by a long shot. The skills curve required to crack a Mac limits the number of people capable of doing it down to roughly a literal handful (...whereas any script kiddie can pop a 'doze box and keep it).
by dk jones November 20, 2008 6:26 AM PST
the MS ads are lame for the reasons stated by Mr. Cooper, however the HP ads are interesting & informative & they use celebrities to hype them(for those who think this is a plus or necessity), although they don't identify the celeb until the end. although i use Macs because they work for me, i like the HP ads, because they inform the viewer/ home user about what you can do w/ an HP PC as far as photos, music, other entertainment, etc... maybe this is why i recommend HP to my Windows using buds over Dell(besides, i think Dell sucks for home use, but is good in enterprise).

so maybe HP has kinda figured it out, they're not hyping an OS, they're hyping their computers & the experience one can have w/ an HP. similar, but different from Apple because Apple does both the hardware & OS, but both companies are still promoting the end-user experience, something the MS ads don't do.
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by pjhenry1216 November 20, 2008 6:51 AM PST
I don't see the Apple ads promoting any end-user experience. In fact, Hodgeman does almost all the talking. The "mac guy" just kinda stands there looking like a slacker while trying to point out flaws in anything Microsoft.
by srynningb November 20, 2008 6:31 AM PST
Well I have a PC at work and two at home. I got an iPhone three months ago, and it's incredible. So now I'm talking my wife into getting an iMac next time. It's not the commercials that do it for me. It's the products.
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by narratorjuan November 20, 2008 1:03 PM PST
I agree with this totally. I loved the fact that the iPod and iTunes worked so effortlessly on the family PC that when I branched out on my own and needed a computer, I went with iMac. Everything works with the minimum of fuss and I haven't looked back.
by bsharkey November 24, 2008 1:10 AM PST
iMac? they still make those?
by jonsjava November 20, 2008 6:32 AM PST
I'm a PC, and I use Kubuntu Linux.

and to explain myself. My wife and I both use linux as our primary OS (gotta have windows for the VPN to work), and we use PCs. PC just stands for "Personal Computer". This term applies to any computer that is not a server (hm....well, I run a HTTP server on my PC, so I guess that isn't right). Ok, a PC is personal-use computer. So, with that said, back in the old days, we just called them 2 different things: "IBM Clones", and "Macintosh computers". They were both PCs, but vastly different.

So, after all that rambling, I think I can close this off with this:

"I'm a PC, and I don't come from Redmond".
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by tipoo_ November 20, 2008 6:37 AM PST
I love how the latest Mac add states that Microsoft spends too much on advertising...and they say it IN AN AD!!!
Reply to this comment
by The_Decider November 20, 2008 7:33 AM PST
MS does spend too much. $300 million for crappy ads is excessive. If the ads were good, it wouldn't be a waste. Let's not discuss the $10 million to Jerry Seinfeld for those retarded ads with Gates.

That is the very definition of wasteful spending.

That $300 million could get more than a few competent software engineers that could create a solid OS.
by thelemurking November 20, 2008 6:38 AM PST
If I was Microsoft, I would do a commercial about Apple nearly going under in the late 90's and show that suit guy breaks out his check book and bails out Apple from total destruction.

I guess when you are running a business, instead of trying to be hip and cool, you actually have money to do stuff like drop large sums of cash to help out your competition.

I would love to see the little hip kid weeping on the streets outside of Microsoft HQ asking for a dollar so he can get something to eat, and the suit guy shows some heart and helps him out.
Reply to this comment
by Skingers November 20, 2008 5:07 PM PST
This is one of the most prevailing pieces of misinformation out there in history of Apple vs Microsoft and people still continue to be ignorant of the truth of this matter.

Microsoft did not "bail Apple out" of anything.

Microsoft agreed to buy $150M of non-voting stock because they got caught stealing code from Apple's quicktime. This often wrongly referred to "bail-out" was a part of an out of court settlement to compensate Apple for this intellectual property theft.

Here's the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Apple_v._Microsoft.2C_Intel.2C_and_San_Francisco_Canyon_Company
by ducttape36 November 20, 2008 6:43 AM PST
you know what, ive always enjoyed the microsoft online ads voip ads like the ones that you see occasionally on this site. they should do more like that.
Reply to this comment
by Penguinisto November 20, 2008 7:02 AM PST
Agreed... but most consumers have no idea what VoIP is. OTOH, you are right in that they can take that angle.

(OTOH, IBM does that on TV now...)
by ballmerisanape November 20, 2008 6:57 AM PST
Macs are PCs too...
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight November 21, 2008 11:56 AM PST
Yes they are.
by bsharkey November 24, 2008 1:07 AM PST
as much as they would hate to admit it, yep. but then it is part of their selling point for laptops aimed at students ("runs Microsoft Office!!")
Showing 1 of 3 pages (120 Comments)
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About Coop's Corner

Charles Cooper has covered technology and business for more than 25 years. A graduate of Queens College and Columbia University, Cooper received the Excellence in Journalism award from the Northern California branch of the Society for Professional Journalists for column writing.

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