Wanna buy a Prius? It'll cost you

With gas over $4 per gallon, on average, across the country, there is now a carpet bagger economy on the Toyota Prius.

Many dealers will still sell a new one at MSRP, but you are likely to wait 10 to 12 weeks before seeing a car. Yes, if you act quickly you can buy a used Prius, but this is where the real price gouging occurs. Case in point, a basic 2007 Prius with no options and 29,000 miles will cost you around $27,000. If you bought a brand-new car identical to this in 2007, it would have cost around $24,000, and Kelly Blue Book, the authority on used car prices, says that this car is worth just under $23k today.

Obviously, there is a new supply-and-demand curve in the market. Nothing illegal mind you; this is capitalism at work, but it just doesn't seem right. Gas may go up to $6 per gallon, or oil may go down to $80 per barrel; no one really knows, and there are bulls and bears forecasting both extremes. Since rationality has given way to speculation and panic, my advice to would-be Prius buyers is:

1. Do the math. A nicely equipped 2007 Honda Civic EX with equal mileage carries a suggested retail price of about $18,300. Assuming 30 miles per gallon for the Civic, and 45 miles per gallon for the Prius, it could take around 13 years to recoup the extra money for the Prius at $5 per gallon (assuming 12,000 miles per year of driving). Now I know that there are a lot of assumptions in this formula, but suffice it to say that when you do the math, the Civic seems like a better deal overall--not to mention that the EX has a Sunroof to boot.

2. Wait. Delaying a Prius purchase could have two benefits. First off, buyers get to see whether the price of gas goes up or down. If it does go down as some predict, the Prius premium is likely to disappear faster than a Lakers fan after the NBA finals. The other advantage to waiting is that the highbrow Prius will finally get some competition moving forward. Honda is rumored to have a 2009 hybrid Fit and brand-new five-passenger hybrid--with better gas mileage than today's Prius--waiting in the wings. Rumor also has it that VW, Hyundai, Ford, and others aren't far behind with high-mileage alternatives of their own. Finally, in 2009 or 2010 Toyota will introduce its own next-generation Prius that may offer plug-in capabilities and better gas mileage as well.

Supply and demand are constant market conditions, but shortages come and go. Is a used Prius really worth a $3,000 to $4,000 premium? The answer to this question can be summed in two sagacious words: caveat emptor!

Jon Oltsik is a senior analyst at the Enterprise Strategy Group.

[ballmerisanape]

Just drive the speed limit. I get an extra 100 miles per tank now that I am chilling out and going the speed limit in the right lane. It's that easy... and saves a good amount of cash.

[Dalkorian]

Good advice of course, the decreased wind resistance at the speed limit will have a noticeable effect. One thing I'd like to point out though, the most damage you'll do to your fuel mileage is when pressing down the gas pedal (compared to holding it down at speed), because the fuel system will give an extra squirt of fuel for acceleration when the pedal is pushed. If you can find a center lane, where there might be less merging traffic, it might help even more. One other thing I probably shouldn't mention is the fact that if you can find a big rig to follow, they tend to punch a large hole in the air and tend to modulate their speed pretty well (they don't often vary their speed unless it's necessary to not run someone over). Tailgate one of them and get maybe another 10% fuel savings (JUST BE CAREFUL AND ATTENTIVE DOING THIS, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S "SAFE". Don't force yourself closer than you feel comfortable with, even at the legal 2 second following distance you will get some "drafting help" off one of those road monsters).
I have a large gas guzzling 4X4 truck, so I know all the tricks. Including the one that saves me the most - biking to work daily (I'm lucky that I have that option, not everyone does)!

[scot11]

I own a New 2008 Prius. (Dark Blue, purchased Jan 2008 for 24,500 with option 5). You're missing the bigger point, the Prius emits a claimed 70% less emissions. And not to mention the Prius is actually bigger. Sit in one. Sit in the back. I'm 6'2" and fit fine with the front drivers seat all the way back. Carry a 5' dresser. Try that in the Honda. Then post your comments. Do the REAL math. :-)

[winddealer]

What about this BIG POINT....What most hybrid owners convieniently forget while "doing the math" is the $2000 or greater cost and enviornmental impact of replacing the batteries when they they no longer hold a charge in five years. Let me guess, you'll sell the wonderful emission saving vehicle and transfer the cost to next buyer. That's nice.

[tonis01]

If you do the "REAL MATH', lets not forget about the $5000 battery replacement cost that you'll be forking over at around 100,000 miles. It may emit 70% less emissions, but lets not forget about the hazardous waste effect to the environment when disposing of the battery that you'll be replacing.

[ancl87]

You are ignorant if think that your car is better for the environment than anything else on the road. The REAL MATH shows that your car is worse than most trucks for the environment due to the batteries and im not talking about the disposal of them either. I am talking about the making and shipping of the material for those batteries.

Here is some great writing on the nickel factory.

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/03/which-is-greener-prius-or-hummer.html

"As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?dead zone? around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius? battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist?s nightmare.

?The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,? said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn?t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ?nickel foam.? From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?"


Sure eventually that initial cost of shipping and refining will eventually even out to say an explorer but it is after a ton of miles. I would say well over 125-150k. Now while that is something that is attainable I do not know many people who keep their cars for more than a few years or even get close to 100k in mileage. Unfortunately the Prius has become the prada bag of the green movement. Eventually it will no longer be cool and people will move on, well before many of them reach the level to make the hybrid worth its total environmental impact. Also it gets worse with each hybrid out there. The ford escape hybrid is so bad it should just be outright outlawed.

You want to have low emissions ride a bike. You want to drive by a high MPG diesel and run it on deep firer oil. Can't do that buy a regular car with good mileage but do not buy a hybrid. Chances are you are just some fake environmentalist who has the Prius to show off. Just look at your post you even tell us the package you get. It's nothing more than a Prada bag for those who are going green to be cool. Do some research next time you want to save the planet.

[dailofan]

Saving money on gas - nice.
Reducing repiratory disease causing pollution - priceless!

[b_baggins]

The air in the United States is the cleanest it's been since the 1900s.

We have a localized pollution problem (big cities) caused by environmental regulations (impossible to build new roads to improve traffic flow).

The automobile is not the problem. Environmentalists, like they always have been for the last 30 years, are the problem.

[velcrofog]

Aw, come on. Like environmentalists have anything to do with roads going through big cities. They protect marshlands and forests, not high-rises and parking decks! "Better traffic flow" can be achieved by knocking down enough buildings to put new lanes in everywhere, or it can be achieved by substantial investment in, and use of, public transportation. But big city traffic congestion is emphatically not the fault of environmentalists. They'd all like to see you ride a bike instead.

[vkp7]

I drive a Silver Civic Hybrid 2008, ( Purchases in May 2008 - Paid $700 below the MSRP ). Its a much better car than Prius as far as performance goes. Its true that Prius give on an avg. 5 miles more to a gallon when compared to a Civic but Civic is overall a Better buy purely because its a good mix of performance and gas mileage. !

[cat27sav]

I agree with all your comments; however, if you can't afford the price of the Prius, a Civic or the new 09 Corolla can be a cheaper alternative. I just bought the 09 Corolla for 18,100 out the door and I am averaging 36.5 mpg.

[citizencontact]

This may be a case of individual decisions can not account for massive change possibilities. While it may be true that an individual making a decision on a single car sale might save money, it does not account for the potential of a significant portion of the market making a decision based on its overall effect. If instead 5,000,000 potential buyers decided to make a pooled purchase several advantages can be made. First, the incentive for change in car models might change even more drastically. Economies of scale might be reached more quickly. Also, whereas one person saving 133 gallons per year by purchasing a 45mpg vs. 40mpg might not see savings, 5 million pooled purchasers deciding to pick only 45mpg+ cars could greatly impact savings. For example, this might lead to gas prices sinking as 5 million cars that level of decreased demand would impact the market more significantly than with individuals with short term savings goals. Of course, any individual outside of the pool might find even greater short term savings in costs brought about by the rest of the market. The only way to influence the purchaser that only considers their own short term interests over the interest of the rest of the market should be saddled with financial disincentives for purposely being inefficient (essentially extend the gas guzzler fines till they can impact purchases).
Daniel

[voyager529]

...Odds are if you're buying a brand new Hummer, you're not going to have a problem paying another $1/gallon for gas.

Joey

[b_baggins]

Let's not forget the disadvantages. Lithium-ion batteries are not cheap because they require toxic chemicals and rare substances to make.

You get millions of people buying hybrid cars, and you can guarantee battery prices will skyrocket.

[motorush]

change the way you drive instead. a prius will do severe damage to the environment actually.
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/03/toyotas_prius_is_less_efficien.html#more

[citizencontact]

I think it is important to cite where you hear certain claims. However, I did some research and this appears to be less than serious evidence. Not quite a hoax, but seems intended to confuse people and let people rationalize buying expensive gas guzzlers. Read http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf . Perhaps the history of tobacco companies attempts to discount science with paid studies rigged to raise doubt explains this effort as well. I think it is better to ask how to improve cars including the Prius rather than dwell on reasons not too. And by the way, it was the Prius display that shows energy use that has helped Prius drivers change the way they drive. More cars should give immediate and useful feedback to help people drive more efficiently and safely.

[winddealer]

Not to mention the cost to the enviornment to manufacture, dispose of the batteries and the cost to replace them in the future when they become incapable of retaining a charge. 10 years? who knows?

[OldBaldGuy2008]

It's amazing how invented hate fiction keeps spreading around the internet. The "report" you refer too has already been repeatedly proven to be completely bogus ... a fabrication of made up "facts" and "data" which prove nothing ... except that people who repeat them haven't bothered to learn the truth. One of the "facts" from this report says that a Prius will only last about 100,000 miles whereas a Hummer will last over 300,000 miles and be used for 34.96 years. If people would quit spreading this invented "report" around, perhaps other people would be more likely to believe some real facts.

[jmbuchan]

Bought Prius [level 2] in December 2007 from teachers' credit union for $1200 UNDER sticker, after previous car @ 130,000+ miles needed $500+ component replacement. That vehicle was averaging 28-30 mpg. Sign from on high that it was time to move to a new vehicle. Prius averages 47 mpg, plus now buying at ARCO for circa 10 cents less per gallon than previous purchases at local Chevron station. Prius? It isn't the coolest-looking car, but I smile at it every time I have to fill it with gas!

[b_baggins]

You paid $24,000 for a new car rather than $500 to repair an existing car?!?

No wonder you bought a Prius.

[Dalkorian]

What does the gas station have to do with anything? I promise you your previous car would have run fine on the cheaper Arco gas. Enjoy the smile you get at the pump, "nothing is free" and that smile will invert when it comes time to replace those toxic batteries.

[wango2007]

American's are happy with their cars, especially their SUVs. We need a public policy that accommodates that.

No one should have to ride around in an ugly little Prius, and many of us don't like that look of smugness their drivers have, like they're saving the environment or something. We all know that one big volcano could eliminate all environmental gains, all Kyoto Protocols in about 5 minutes.

[velcrofog]

Okay, you're fishing, but I'll bite. Americans were happy with their slaves, too. Of course, driving an SUV is nowhere near as bad as owning a slave; my point is that sometimes morality means giving up something we are happy with. And by the way, in the average year humans emit about 50 times as much carbon as volcanos. Even an occassional big one doesn't change the effect of human-generated carbon emissions. Finally, "smug" comes on all kinds of faces, and the owners of big'ol testosterone machines are certainly not immune. A few people actually need SUV capability, but for the great majority, they are--or were--clearly nothing but a status symbol.

[john_zocco]

Are you for real? SUV sales have nosedived. As far as Americans being happy with their SUV's, I doubt they're happy with their gas bills. The only public policy we need is people who have gas hogs like you should pay twice as much for their gas as people like me who drive fuel efficient, environmentally friendly cars. And yes I have a Prius, and I love the way it looks. Better yet I get 50 mpg. What do you get Mr. Whiny, 14 mpg, if you're lucky?

[ballmerisanape]

btw... I drive a Mustang and get 30mpg on the highway (going the speed limit) and 26 mixed driving. I get my cake and eat it too.

[tonis01]

I'm still enjoying my 1999 Honda Civic EX that gets 37mpg at 65mph, with 166,000 miles and the original clutch and rear breaks. Not a thing (other than general maint) has gone wrong with this car since I bought it. Long live Honda!

[motorush]

Good comments on this topic from TopGear. An M3 out-treehugs a Prius.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl3jLLrmpKs

Its not what you drive that matters, it's how you drive it. In the long term, a Prius does more environmental damage than a Land Rover Discovery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2007/09/throttling_guzzlers.html

[jag0]

Hmm...if this article is legit then it is a real eye-opener. I was planning on buying a Civic Hybrid within the next 2 years or so but if this keeps up, then I'll just get a really efficient gas engine car instead.

[ferretboy88]

i'll stick with my Honda Civic. it gets 40 on the highway and about 34 when I drive from town to town. More than enough for me. plus I saved $10,000 plus on the price and don't have to replace expensive batteries.

[Seaspray0]

Wango, the utility vehicle serves a purpose... towing, hauling, work vehicle that needs the power and chassis and ACTUALLY GETS USED for that purpose. Stick the word "sport" in front of it, and you've turned it into a gas guzzling luxury tank for snobby suburban commuters who will never use it for it's utility purposes. Status symbol? Only in the SUV owner's dillusional mind. To the rest of us, it's needless poluting of our environment by an idiot who doesn't give a damn about consuming all our resources. It's not a "smug" look, it's a look of hate. I don't drive a prius, but if you see my face, it will be the same look. To me, it'd be worth seeing the price go to $10/gallon just to hear you whine at the pump about how much it costs to fill your SUV. Maybe that's what it will take to wake you up to how the rest of us feel about them.

[b_baggins]

Ah, ya gotta love self-righteous tyrants.

News flash for you. It's none of your d@mn business what somebody else drives.

Second news flash for you. The whole environmental movement is designed to brainwash you into thinking that the planet is dying unless they get to tell you how to live.

Third news flash. You fell victim to the brainwashing so quickly because you are obviously the kind of person who loves feeling morally superior to others and telling them how to live their lives.

[MadLyb]

Yay! No Toyota Pious for me.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe in reducing our consumption and waste, but I just don't feel the need to drive a 4 wheeled badge of honor and an ugly one at that.

Thanks for speaking out on the topic.

[wango2007]

by Seaspray0
that's what it will take to wake you up to how the rest of us feel about them.

-----------------

I suppose that's the real problem, isn't it. The "rest of us" is really just a tiny number of zealots who are smug about some imagined entitlement. But SUVs would continue to rule, because that's what people really want, if the zealots did not cry wolf and want to shut down drilling. Oil is a natural resource, not something to be ashamed of. There is lots of it and supplies need to be exploited. "Environmentalism" is a fools paradise... like I said, one big volcano anywhere in the world will wipe any and all environmental gains --and the smugness of the faces of the misguided do-gooders.

[b_baggins]

These people have all forgotten their third grade science. The class where they learned that carbon dioxide is plant food, not a pollutant.

But, it's really never been about saving the planet. It's always been about some self-righteous jerk thinking because he is more intelligent and more moral than you, he has the divine right to tell you how to live.

[ender21]

How so? If my car saves on pollution by, say, 100lbs of carbon dioxide per year, then that's ALLOWING for the actual *natural* environmental disaster to occur *naturally.* If a volcano erupts in a large city that has only your gas-guzzling SUVs spewing co2 everywhere, then it'll be the pollution from the volcano + pollution from the cars, whereas with zero co2 from cars, it would only be the volcano. Your logic is severely flawed, but I can see you're just trying to make an argument and ruffle feathers. That'd be great, if your argument actually made sense. I live in the greater Los Angeles area... thankfully no volcanoes near me. But I'd like to not add to the asthma causing smoke from the fires!

[gsmiller88]

Many used car lots are notorious for high prices anyway. I know someone who last year bought a two year old Mini with over 40,000 miles on it for around $20,000 (before the financing). The MSRP for a new Mini? $18,700.

[jmarkmediallc]

Well this is the truth!! I am in the Toyota Business and have been telling people this for years. If you want to save the planet, sure go ahead and buy a Prius or one of our other Hybrids. But if you want to SAVE MONEY...Dont' Buy a Hybrid.

I built a page on our website that I would like to share. It is based on gas when it was $4.00 a gallon. One great point here is resale value. Hybrids are always great at resale...if you don't pay OVER sticker for them. Just remember this..think back to when Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf South and gas went over $3.00 a gallon. Hybrids were going for $5,000.00 OVER MSRP in many places.

http://centennialtoyota.com/HybridAlternative.cfm

[AlaskanGrown]

Dad drives a Prius in so cal and has a HOV lane sticker. 48 mpg avg plus access to the carpool lane is priceless. Time is money so while you get 35-40 in your civic which is awesome you are wasting time in traffic not to mention gas. So if you live in a major metropolitan area it may be worth it to get a Hybrid. I personally drive a 92 escort that I paid 800 bucks for and get an average 32 mpg.

[b_baggins]

Don't get me started on HOV lanes. It is such a stupid idea that only an environmentalist could have thought of it.

Let's jam up traffic by eliminating a lane. Yeah, that's real genius.

Here's a better idea. BUILD MORE FREAKING ROADS to alleviate the congestion and tell the environmentalists to go to h#ll when they demand environmental impact studies.