Tech companies win small victory in H-1B push
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has given high-tech companies a piece of good news: foreign graduates of American universities won't necessarily be forced to go home before companies have a chance to hire them on temporary work visas.
The new rule announced late Friday will allow recent graduates with science, technology, engineering, or mathematics degrees to stay in the country for 29 months, instead of the previous 12 months, if they're participating in an off-campus on-the-job training program related to their field of study.
The "stopgap measure" appears to be directly related to persistent complaints by high-tech companies like Microsoft, Google, and Oracle that the annual cap of H-1B temporary visas will be exhausted before they can even lodge applications for this year's crop of graduates. To be eligible for an H-1B, which can be renewed for up to six years, one must hold at least a bachelor's degree in one's area of specialty, but most graduates won't have diploma in hand until May or June, which visa-hungry companies fear is too late.
The extension represents a small victory for the companies in the grand scheme of things, but it could give companies a better chance of being able to secure visas before a foreigner's student status expires--especially if Congress opts to raise the H-1B quota, as some members have already proposed.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services began accepting H-1B petitions on April 1 but has not yet announced how many it has received. If the number of petitions filed during the first five days exceeds the baseline allotment of 65,000 visas, plus 20,000 more for students with advanced degrees from U.S. universities, then USCIS plans to select its applications through a random "lottery" that's, not surprisingly, despised by companies vying for the visas.
The "interim" rule applies only to students who are currently enrolled in the 12-month Optional Practical Training (OPT) program, as it's known, with a company that uses Homeland Security's voluntary E-Verify system to check its employees' eligibility to work in the United States.
Microsoft chief lobbyist Jack Krumholtz applauded Homeland Security's action on Monday, saying it "allows U.S. companies to recruit, hire, and retain the best graduating science, technology, engineering and math students trained at the top U.S. universities," he said in a statement.
"In the past, these students were often unable to remain in the United States for more than a year after completing their degrees because they could not obtain the necessary work visa in spite of being offered gainful employment in highly innovative companies due to the extreme shortage of H-1B visas," he added.
Robert Hoffman, Oracle's chief lobbyist, said the move was important but represented a "band-aid on a much larger crisis." Now Congress needs to boost the number of H-1B visas and make it easier for "the best and brightest" temporary workers to obtain permanent green cards, he said in a statement. (Hoffman is also co-chairman of Compete America, a group composed mostly of Silicon Valley companies that lobbies for more liberal immigration policies.)
American programmers who oppose expanding the H-1B system on the grounds that it displaces qualified Americans and depresses their wages were none too pleased with the new step.
"Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff says flooding in more foreign workers 'is a way to bolster the U.S. economy,'" Kim Berry, who heads a vocal group called Programmers Guild, said in an e-mail message about the new rules. "Well, slavery and relaxation (of) child labor laws might 'bolster' the economy too."
Homeland Security said it plans to take comments on the new rule for 60 days, which suggests it could be modified at some point.
These cheap labor slaves divert capital away from educating Americans, which results in fewer educated Americans, and more racist calls by Indians to hire more Indians.
This vicious downward spiralling cycle needs to be stopped.
How can anybody with a brain come up with such an idea???
Fact is that we have a shortage of qualified people in the tech industry. And fact is that these positions can't be filled with people who were laid off in other, unrelated industries...
not true -- an H1B employee is required to be paid the prevailing industry rate (it's one of the requirements of H1B status). That means that the H1B employee would be paid more than a potentially significant percentage of U.S. workers depending on the salary distribution curve.
NEED PROOF ? EVEN GRADUATES OF DEVRY UNIVERSITY LIKE MYSELF, ARE'NT BEING OFFERED THE 100 GRAND AN YEAR JOBS THAT WE DESERVE X-(
Secondly, to apply for an H1B for a prospective employee (or for a current employee on an OPT stint), an employer typically has to demonstrate that there are no suitably qualified Americans available to fill the post. This usually means advertising the vacancy and so forth. True, there are many Americans earnestly seeking employment who can't find a job. However, look at the number of job fields which are under-staffed and the number of vacancies per field. Not enough Americans are going to school to become qualified for these fields. And with H1B caps in place, not enough foreigners are able to fill these vacancies either.
Some of the fields in which there are shortages of staff (in some cases, extreme shortages) include Medicine (Doctors, RN's, LVN's, etc.), Teaching (K-12 and, to a lesser extent, tertiary-level), IT, and certain classes of unskilled labor. I work in IT and I have seen the job vacancy postings of schools and have read the news reports regarding hospitals (and have had to wait half a day in the ER for an available Medical Professional) and clinics.
Would you rather die of your injuries than have a foreign Doctor/Nurse get an H1B? Would you rather have undue system downtime and loss of productivity at the office because of an IT problem than have a foreign Tech get an H1B? Would you rather you child get a sloppy education because of staffing issues than a foreigner get an H1B? Would you prefer that under qualified Americans try to fill the vast numbers of vacancies and possibly cause more harm than good?
IMHO, Americans need to take responsibility for the state of this country. More Americans need to go to school for the jobs which are in demand and lose their fear of technology, malpractice suits, etc. Speaking of fear, Americans need to lose their xenophobia. Oh, yeah - and raise the caps on H1B's. The world population is growing, as is the population here in America. More employees are needed to service more customers. Therefore, we need more Americans AND more H1B's, especially in certain sectors.
These cheap labor slaves divert capital away from educating Americans, which results in fewer educated Americans, and more racist calls by Indians to hire more Indians.
This vicious downward spiralling cycle needs to be stopped.
How can anybody with a brain come up with such an idea???
Fact is that we have a shortage of qualified people in the tech industry. And fact is that these positions can't be filled with people who were laid off in other, unrelated industries...
not true -- an H1B employee is required to be paid the prevailing industry rate (it's one of the requirements of H1B status). That means that the H1B employee would be paid more than a potentially significant percentage of U.S. workers depending on the salary distribution curve.
NEED PROOF ? EVEN GRADUATES OF DEVRY UNIVERSITY LIKE MYSELF, ARE'NT BEING OFFERED THE 100 GRAND AN YEAR JOBS THAT WE DESERVE X-(
Secondly, to apply for an H1B for a prospective employee (or for a current employee on an OPT stint), an employer typically has to demonstrate that there are no suitably qualified Americans available to fill the post. This usually means advertising the vacancy and so forth. True, there are many Americans earnestly seeking employment who can't find a job. However, look at the number of job fields which are under-staffed and the number of vacancies per field. Not enough Americans are going to school to become qualified for these fields. And with H1B caps in place, not enough foreigners are able to fill these vacancies either.
Some of the fields in which there are shortages of staff (in some cases, extreme shortages) include Medicine (Doctors, RN's, LVN's, etc.), Teaching (K-12 and, to a lesser extent, tertiary-level), IT, and certain classes of unskilled labor. I work in IT and I have seen the job vacancy postings of schools and have read the news reports regarding hospitals (and have had to wait half a day in the ER for an available Medical Professional) and clinics.
Would you rather die of your injuries than have a foreign Doctor/Nurse get an H1B? Would you rather have undue system downtime and loss of productivity at the office because of an IT problem than have a foreign Tech get an H1B? Would you rather you child get a sloppy education because of staffing issues than a foreigner get an H1B? Would you prefer that under qualified Americans try to fill the vast numbers of vacancies and possibly cause more harm than good?
IMHO, Americans need to take responsibility for the state of this country. More Americans need to go to school for the jobs which are in demand and lose their fear of technology, malpractice suits, etc. Speaking of fear, Americans need to lose their xenophobia. Oh, yeah - and raise the caps on H1B's. The world population is growing, as is the population here in America. More employees are needed to service more customers. Therefore, we need more Americans AND more H1B's, especially in certain sectors.
There are laws, which are written by Congress, and there are regulations, which are the rules to implement the laws. Congress hasn't specified a particular time limit on the practical training. The regulations specified a time limit, and the regulations can be changed by an administrative act.
There are laws, which are written by Congress, and there are regulations, which are the rules to implement the laws. Congress hasn't specified a particular time limit on the practical training. The regulations specified a time limit, and the regulations can be changed by an administrative act.
behavior? Refuse to buy their products.
CAN YOU THINK OF SOME MORE ? GREAT LIST, LETS START HERE.. :-)
What a clueless "proposal." Only somebody lacking the most basic education could come up with such a brain dead "proposal."
No wonder we need more foreigners...
behavior? Refuse to buy their products.
CAN YOU THINK OF SOME MORE ? GREAT LIST, LETS START HERE.. :-)
What a clueless "proposal." Only somebody lacking the most basic education could come up with such a brain dead "proposal."
No wonder we need more foreigners...
America has been sold out to the "Federal Reserve" and the international banks. Wake the F--- up America.
Maybe, but the H1 is not about cheap labor. People on H1 have to be paid the same as Americans.
So, may I ask why you post something completely unrelated?
America has been sold out to the "Federal Reserve" and the international banks. Wake the F--- up America.
Maybe, but the H1 is not about cheap labor. People on H1 have to be paid the same as Americans.
So, may I ask why you post something completely unrelated?
To Mr. Gates and his comrades: "What is it for a man (or corporation) to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul?" Your philanthropic efforts along with Melinda shouts "hypocrasy"!
To you, all the money in the world would never be enough. I weep for your depravity. If I would ever get the chance to explore the depths of your soul, I know that I would scarcely get my feet wet.
If we can't enough qualified people to work in these high-paying jobs, the companies would be forced to move their operations abroad where they can find people.
That would result in losing the tax base here.
So, economy 101: keep the jobs here, keep the tax revenue here. Not getting more people here would be bad for the US economy.
Oh, and may I suggest doing good for the US economy and buying a dictionary??? It is called "hypocrisy"... How come it is always the uneducated who can't even spell who are against the H1? They won't be able to hold such jobs for as long as a day, anyway...
And further, companies have a responsibility towards their shareholders. That may actually include you, through your 401(k) (provided that you have a job that's better than burger-flipping, of course.)
So, learn about these things before making a fool of yourself.
To Mr. Gates and his comrades: "What is it for a man (or corporation) to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul?" Your philanthropic efforts along with Melinda shouts "hypocrasy"!
To you, all the money in the world would never be enough. I weep for your depravity. If I would ever get the chance to explore the depths of your soul, I know that I would scarcely get my feet wet.
If we can't enough qualified people to work in these high-paying jobs, the companies would be forced to move their operations abroad where they can find people.
That would result in losing the tax base here.
So, economy 101: keep the jobs here, keep the tax revenue here. Not getting more people here would be bad for the US economy.
Oh, and may I suggest doing good for the US economy and buying a dictionary??? It is called "hypocrisy"... How come it is always the uneducated who can't even spell who are against the H1? They won't be able to hold such jobs for as long as a day, anyway...
And further, companies have a responsibility towards their shareholders. That may actually include you, through your 401(k) (provided that you have a job that's better than burger-flipping, of course.)
So, learn about these things before making a fool of yourself.
http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/04/07/government-quietly-changes-rules-on-foreign-tech-workers/?mod=WSJBlog
http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/04/07/government-quietly-changes-rules-on-foreign-tech-workers/?mod=WSJBlog
I'm sure this post will be attacked by the individual who has been so adamant in attacking everyone else posting criticism of the H1B program. Perhaps this time he (?) will also tell us a little more about the way in which these attacks gore his (?) ox. Is this person here on an H1B visa, an employee of one of the tech companies pushing for expansion of the program, or perhaps an employee of a PR/lobbying firm pushing that agenda?
It seems you have no knowledge about what "prevailing wage" means. DOL collects wage data from employers, and that ends up being the prevailing wage. So, it clearly is what employers are paying others doing the same job in the region where the job is located.
If you know of cases where employers don't pay the required wages, please report that to DOL, so that it gets rectified.
"I'm sure this post will be attacked by the individual who has been so adamant in attacking everyone else posting criticism of the H1B program."
Assuming that you mean me, I am not attacking people who criticize the H1 program, I am attacking people who post falsehoods about the H1 program. As for myself, I am a US citizen with no connection to anything H1 related. I just happen to be interested in the topic, and I have learned about the topic over time. I wish others, including you, would also learn about it before posting falsehoods.
I am, however, employed in the tech area and I see the shortage first hand whenever we try to find new people.
I'm sure this post will be attacked by the individual who has been so adamant in attacking everyone else posting criticism of the H1B program. Perhaps this time he (?) will also tell us a little more about the way in which these attacks gore his (?) ox. Is this person here on an H1B visa, an employee of one of the tech companies pushing for expansion of the program, or perhaps an employee of a PR/lobbying firm pushing that agenda?
It seems you have no knowledge about what "prevailing wage" means. DOL collects wage data from employers, and that ends up being the prevailing wage. So, it clearly is what employers are paying others doing the same job in the region where the job is located.
If you know of cases where employers don't pay the required wages, please report that to DOL, so that it gets rectified.
"I'm sure this post will be attacked by the individual who has been so adamant in attacking everyone else posting criticism of the H1B program."
Assuming that you mean me, I am not attacking people who criticize the H1 program, I am attacking people who post falsehoods about the H1 program. As for myself, I am a US citizen with no connection to anything H1 related. I just happen to be interested in the topic, and I have learned about the topic over time. I wish others, including you, would also learn about it before posting falsehoods.
I am, however, employed in the tech area and I see the shortage first hand whenever we try to find new people.
The H1-B program should be reserved for specific talent, when you want to hire a specific foriegn national of distinguishment, not for filling the ranks of tech support. I have seen it happen, it is still happening, to the affect of driving and keeping Tech wages down, and IT jobs scarce for Americans. I have seen friends laid off, and still looking for work while dozens of foriegn nationals take up their old roles. The shortage of talent is a lie, the cheaper costs through keeping tech wages at 2 decade old levels is true. And a portion of the money these workers often make is sent home to families (I would in their position too, its not wrong), or worse to the foreign contracting companies that sponsered them, but it does leave our economy, further degrading America. "Global Market" does not require "Free Trade", to trade completely freely, is to disregard the currency values of the countries involved and the standards of living they have worked hard to achieve, and just treats it like 1 Dollar = 1 Yen = 1 Euro = 1 Peso, etc. (this is a gross simplification, but basically true).
The country that treats its citizens the worst (in lack of social services and investment in infrastructure, absence of corperate taxes to pay for these things, etc.), and protects them the least (in labor laws, safe work environments, environmental protection, and fair compensation), then becomes the most desirable for companies to employ in.
This is great for greedy multinational corperations who can exploit anywhere, and bad for anyone who actually works for a living, no matter where you live.
Even the companies that would like to remain honest and fair have to follow suit to compete.
Abolish H1-B's and pay decent tech wages and you will have no problem filling those tech positions.
Economics 101: The more qualified workers you have in a country awaiting employment, the more multinational companies will want to set up shop in your neighbourhood. Its simple, hiring an employee is an expensive procedure. So you want to hire employees as infrequently as possible, which means hiring someone who will stay, do good work and wont quit or get fired. Unfortunatly, American workers do not have a good track record in these departments.
The answer, my American friends, is to train your workforce to compete with workers form around the world, not to keep them out of your land. The more you keep the qualified workers out of the states, the more your companies will leave the US to set up shop where they can hire the people they need.
Basically you hate companies importing qualified workers, you hate companies exporting their work off-shore, and you hate reading and going to school (not YOU, but as a nation). One of these these things is going to have to crack.
The H1-B program should be reserved for specific talent, when you want to hire a specific foriegn national of distinguishment, not for filling the ranks of tech support. I have seen it happen, it is still happening, to the affect of driving and keeping Tech wages down, and IT jobs scarce for Americans. I have seen friends laid off, and still looking for work while dozens of foriegn nationals take up their old roles. The shortage of talent is a lie, the cheaper costs through keeping tech wages at 2 decade old levels is true. And a portion of the money these workers often make is sent home to families (I would in their position too, its not wrong), or worse to the foreign contracting companies that sponsered them, but it does leave our economy, further degrading America. "Global Market" does not require "Free Trade", to trade completely freely, is to disregard the currency values of the countries involved and the standards of living they have worked hard to achieve, and just treats it like 1 Dollar = 1 Yen = 1 Euro = 1 Peso, etc. (this is a gross simplification, but basically true).
The country that treats its citizens the worst (in lack of social services and investment in infrastructure, absence of corperate taxes to pay for these things, etc.), and protects them the least (in labor laws, safe work environments, environmental protection, and fair compensation), then becomes the most desirable for companies to employ in.
This is great for greedy multinational corperations who can exploit anywhere, and bad for anyone who actually works for a living, no matter where you live.
Even the companies that would like to remain honest and fair have to follow suit to compete.
Abolish H1-B's and pay decent tech wages and you will have no problem filling those tech positions.
Economics 101: The more qualified workers you have in a country awaiting employment, the more multinational companies will want to set up shop in your neighbourhood. Its simple, hiring an employee is an expensive procedure. So you want to hire employees as infrequently as possible, which means hiring someone who will stay, do good work and wont quit or get fired. Unfortunatly, American workers do not have a good track record in these departments.
The answer, my American friends, is to train your workforce to compete with workers form around the world, not to keep them out of your land. The more you keep the qualified workers out of the states, the more your companies will leave the US to set up shop where they can hire the people they need.
Basically you hate companies importing qualified workers, you hate companies exporting their work off-shore, and you hate reading and going to school (not YOU, but as a nation). One of these these things is going to have to crack.
- H-1B, L1, OPT should be decreased!!
- by prousa April 9, 2008 6:09 PM PDT
- Does anyone truly believe there is a labor shortage and US companies have no choice but to recruit and hire H-1Bs or L1s? Consider the many articles, testimonies, comments, and videos which say H-1B is all about cheap indentured labor from low wage countries. Go see the Cohen and Grigsby video where immigration lawyers advise how to AVOID hiring qualified Americans. Consider the very high percentage of H-1B and L1 candidates which coincidentally happen to come from the poorest low wage countries on earth. Even if H-1B proponents win a few more battles I think they're destined to lose the immigration war. The American public is becoming more and more upset at being undercut by low wage foreign labor in their own country. We're risking a major backlash by continuing on this course.
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