Judge OKs suit over 'Vista Capable'

A U.S. District judge in Seattle has ruled that consumers can move ahead with a class-action suit against Microsoft over how it advertised computers with Windows XP as capable of running Vista, according to an article by the Associated Press.

The suit claims that the labeling of computers as "Windows Vista Capable" misled consumers because many of the machines weren't powerful enough to run all of Vista's features, such as the Aero user interface, the AP said.

The federal judge certified the suit late Friday but narrowed its scope to whether the "Vista Capable" labels artificially created demand for PCs in late 2006 during the holiday-shopping season. Vista, which had faced several delays, was released in early 2007.

According to a related article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, many of the computers touted as Vista Capable could run only the stripped-down "Home Basic" version of Vista.

Microsoft said it was reviewing the decision.

[The_Decider]

Why narrow the scope?

Computer stores are full of "Vista Capable" machines that choke on the bloated pig.

[someguy999]

not retarded lawsuit.

another lame lawsuit. So now there should be more stickers saying "vista sort of capable" (not capable would be a lie as well)?

I don't expect my pos machine to be able to run all of the same things that as a beefy high end system.

Anyone who bought a machine with a poor video card and then complains they can't run Aero (which btw I've never seen as a requirement on a piece of software so far) is to dumb for help.

[Riquez-001]

disagree

I disagree.
If you bought a cheap computer & then later found out you couldn't run
Vista or could barely run it - thats one thing.

However, if the computer was advertised and sold promising to be
future proof - and then it turns out it isn't, or is just barely capable, you
actually feel a bit ripped off. And so you should, you were lied to.

Those stickers were a cheap marketing ploy which mislead people who
have to rely on the sales staff & advertising to give accurate
information.
There are a lot of people who buy computers who dont know about
graphics cards, processor speeds etc - you can't just say "tough, you
should have known better" they would have known better if they weren't
mislead in the first place.

[Gojira2750]

Offbase

Of course if you read Cnet on a regular basis then you would understand a lot of the tech jargon. But what if you are in your fifties and you barely understand what OS and GUI mean.
There are a lot of people like that. I am in my twenties and have spent a fair amount of time in the computer field, and I know that there is no way most people would understand what a video card is, or the difference between RAM vs HDD memory.

It's like a car. If you buy an SUV that is advertised as 4WD and then you find out that your not supposed to go off road with it and you could only use it on icy roads, I think that most people would feel mis led, if there was no indication of what the capabilities are.

[oreotookie]

Previous versions of Windows

Just out of curiosity, did previous versions of Windows have this
diversity of requirements for the different versions within those
versions (ex. Windows XP verses Windows XP Pro - side note, I
am NOT taking into account server editions of anything)? Is this
the first time that Microsoft has had this much diversity within a
new release of Windows?

If they are dramatically changing how they are selling their OS
from previous years, then Microsoft should probably take that
into consideration into their marketing. I consider myself about
average as far as "tech savvy-ness" goes, and I didn't realize that
the basic edition was as stripped down as it was until I saw a
demo of it on CNet TivoCasts. I just figured that they all had a
little something extra, but I didn't realize that there would be
that much of a difference.

I agree that the computer manufacturers should also hold some accountability in this situation but I question whether Microsoft
should be completely excluded.

[barbaraj696]

Microsoft class action suit

How do I go about joining the suit? I am eager to know as are a few of my friends.

[charliegirl42]

vista capable?

yeah... vista capable... he he he...
What's GUI?
(wry grin)

[cyberDJ-2038765336053745013836]

Can Vista be any more of a disaster?

By the time MS gets Vista where it should have been in the first place, Apple will have a 50% market share.

I find it ironic that, with all of the things Apple tries to lure new dollars, it's Microsoft that is THROWING business at Apple.

Gates picked a good time to get out.

[CharlesRovira]

Apple isn't interested is MSs' customers

and in MSs' business base.

They are quite content to leave that garbage in the truck.

[rdgadz]

have you even used vista?

or ... more importantly.. have you used vista on a computer with a 5.9 rating?

i am sure most of you will start to like vista in the next year as computer hardware catches up

bill gates is not out.. he has not sold all his shares, he simply is not working full time anymore. i imagine this retirement to be something like michael jordan.

[ServedUp]

The Arrogance!

If their case is full-proof. I wonder how much money Microsoft
could stand to lose? It would be great if they made a movie
about this. Something seems so Erin Brockovich about this case.
The little guy against the huge corporate giant. Mom vs.
Microsoft! This could totally be a movie! I think the press will
have a field day on this.

Well I guess thats what you get when you dilute the product with
different versions which obviously has caused utter confusion
for most of it's consumers.

For me I'd be happy to see Microsoft take a hit for this. They've
been making so much money by relying on their strength and
monopoly of the market, it's just disgusting on how they treat
their consumers - they get a watered down product which really
isn't all that special (compared to XP) and they have to pay more
than what it's actually worth. The arrogance!

[mikalg]

Hate MS much?

It is established you hate MS. I get it.

[russkeller]

The Facts are irrlivant

Microsoft is a monopoly. You don't become a monopoly without purchasing the government so that there is no way you can loose a lawsuit. Microsoft has the US Government in it's pocket otherwise it'd p of been broken up already.

[paulej]

So, go sue the computer maker

While I disagree with you, who is really at fault here? Go blame the computer maker. They knew full well what would and would not run months in advance of Vista being released to the general public. You can't say they didn't know.

The issue is that Vista-capable means that it can run at least the lowest-end version. If you buy a machine for $400, what should you expect?

[ServedUp]

It's the Advertising.

Yeah but it's the advertising of Vista that caused the confusion.

Microsoft didn't stress the different versions in their advertising
which lead to this problem in the first place. They only
advertised Vista Ultimate and made no mention of the other
watered-down versions. Which seemingly would cause confusion
amongst the average-non-tech consumer. Even I'm confused on
what the other versions are.

But they definitely took advantage of the consumer, obviously.
Not all of Microsoft's consumers are tech savvy people.

I wonder why this is just a blog? and not a headline on
News.com. This big news! CNET is hilarious.

[chash360]

See my post about M$ cert system

This is not always the fault of Computer OEM's, they pay M$ to test and certify a product's compatibility, so that they may display the cert sticker on their product.

M$ does not actually do very good testing (suprised), but is glad to take the money.

Whats also happens is that many display such stickers, having never been actually certified, but M$ does not enforce that either.

It is M$ that owns the certification and sticker process, it is their job to enforce compliance, and they don't. So their cert process is worthless, and they have been paid lots of money for it anyway, by computer and device OEM's that have to cover that cost, that is passed on to you, so I say its M$'s responsibility.

Besides do you want M$ to be able to dictate what hardware you have. Why can't they write software for the hardware that exists? Its like buying a new car stereo, and finding out afterwards, it requires you to buy a new car to go with it, if you want anything more than the clock to work. (Oh but it is capable for you current car isn't it? ....as a clock)

[bnrdz120]

Just read the Specs

On windows vista capable Pcs is a notions that states clearly in the specs or on the website of the company of the selling the computer or on the windows vista website,

1) "A new PC running Windows XP that carries the Windows Vista Capable PC logo can run Windows Vista. All editions of Windows Vista will deliver core experiences such as innovations in organizing and finding information, security, and reliability. All Windows Vista Capable PCs will run these core experiences at a minimum. Some features available in the premium editions of Windows Vista?like the new Windows Aero user experience?may require advanced or additional hardware."

2) A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:


1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor¹).

1 GB of system memory.

Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)², Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.

40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.

DVD-ROM Drive³.

Audio output capability.

Internet access capability.

(taken from Microsoft windows vista website 2/23/08 22:34)
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/capable.mspx

Retailers that do not display this information should be held fully responsible for miss leading the public. But if the people just did not read the insight information or read it and did not ask questions when they did not fully understand it should not be able to hold Microsoft accountable for their laziness.

[thatpcguy]

Core Experience

I'm a "technology guy" with considerable experience with Windows and, for the life of me, I cannot determine what the "core experience" is for Windows. Reading Microsoft's literature regarding what can run Windows Vista and what level is truly a frustrating experience even for someone like me. The average consumer IS NOT going to understand this with any level of proficient and then be able to line it up with the technology they are buying.

[ServedUp]

Not every consumer is tech savvy.

What you've described there probably means nothing to the
non-tech consumer. I don't think retailer's could be held
responsible for how Microsoft advertised Vista which was the
cause of this whole kerfuffle in the first place.

If you don't know already, they only advertised Ultimate and
made know mention of the other "watered down" versions.

Obviously the judge believes it's arrogant and against the law to
presume that everyone should know what to get.

I think they should take Microsoft for everything they got and
shouldn't be given the luxury of making a deal.

But the reality of it is who bought Vista anyway?

[Penguinisto]

Bus-ted...

Advertise falsely, face the consequences.

Sucks to be MSFT in this one.

/P

[Seaspray0]

Agreed

Kinda like the advert at the hotel... "free parking and internet". What that meant was free parking and they had internet which wasn't free. Legally it was true but vey misleading and the same goes for microsoft. Although they had it leagally worded on their website in their description that "vista capable" meant it was only capable of running vista but not all the features (very detailed wording on their website), people took it to mean it was capable of more than just the basics. They will most likely squeek out of a lawsuit but I still am not impressed with what they did. Microsoft should have used a more descriptive phrase thana misleading "vista capable".

[meijkobayashi]

Vista Ready? How about suing HD Ready TV's?

If I were the plaintiff's lawyers, I'd look for people who bought HD ready TV's with NTSC TV tuners only to realize that they weren't able to pick up ATSC antenna broadcasts, even with a digital receiver. Come on, make some money from the television manufacturer's too!

[gsmiller88]

Gone are the days...

When advances in technology is simplified over it's predecessor.
Now when you go to buy an operating system, you're bombarded
with different variations. Buy an HDTV, and you're bombarded with
different levels of "HD." Then when the wrong decision is made it
is your, the customers, fault. Nowadays, as much research is
associated with buy a TV or computer is it is with buying a new car.

[mikalg]

Morons need not apply

MS CLEARLY stated the MINIMUM system requirements for each of its different "versions" of Vista. To accommodate "cheap" PC's there was/is a designation that is easy to understand by anyone who bothers to RESEARCH,READ, or otherwise PERUSE documentation on the specifics of that designation as pertaining to CHEAP PC's.

Long winded for: "buyer beware", and research your purchases! I have no patience for people who misread, misunderstand, or ignore simple language.

A suit of this nature is not deserving of our national attention.

This is all semantics. Do any of you actually believe that when you purchase "stone ground wheat bread" it is actually ground by stone? That example is more deserving of a suit than "Vista Capable".

I can spend all day with these examples. Pepsi was not the "choice of the next generation", as Coke outsold them and I know of no parents that feed their babies Pepsi, rather than milk/formula (next generation).... blah,blah.

Stupid example; but you get the point. Sadly, this case may actually earn some money for council who have no interest in actually upholding the torte system as it should be....and action members that will receive nothing of value at all.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I feel immensely less intelligent for even reading this story.

[The_Decider]

Speaking of stupid

What is it about MS allowing a "Vista Capable" sticker on sub par machines that confuses you?

Even the minimum requirements are too low by at least 50%.

Enjoy the bloat.

[I love Bill Gates]

How is it possible for you to be less stupid?

It's just an article delivering information. How do you know the wheat isn't stone ground? Having worked in the food industry for years this statement is factual. I use MS products but am not blind to their deficiencies, as you are.

[Penguinisto]

...so you're a car moron, right?

Or do you have an ASE certification?

Car analogies aside, the point is simple: if the sticker says "Vista Capable", and [i]nothing else[/i], then it should be capable of running the OS as described in the marketing material (and MSFT studiously avoided mentioning version or performance disclaimers when they were busily showing off Aero).

[i]"Do any of you actually believe that when you purchase "stone ground wheat bread" it is actually ground by stone?"[/i]

Err, you do know that the food industry is highly regulated to the point of near-suffocation when it comes to advertising, right? IOW, you picked a wrong, wrong analogy there, big guy.

[i]"Pepsi was not the "choice of the next generation"[/i]

That was stupid example #2. There is a vast, vast difference between obvious hyperbole (Pepsi's slogan), and a description of ability ("Vista Capable").

For something that will deliver the long, technical, and gritty insight, have a gander at this:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060403-6511.html


/P

[smokified]

Releif

It is a releif to see that there are still a few people out there that have not forgotten about the concept of common sense.

[sonymaster101]

sometimes I swear morons will do anything to get money

The gall! people should just be smart enough to read the specs of the computer and compare that to what is necessary to run... say, windows vista ultimate. then they could be sure everything would work. It is not the responsibility of the coporations to infor the consumer of absolutely EVERYTHING. Microsoft will walk away from this one, but people are constantly filing "class action" lawsuits as a way to get revenge against a company for their own mistake, and gain money in the process.

[ServedUp]

What??

"It is not the responsibility of the coporations to infor the
consumer of absolutely EVERYTHING."

So does these mean your a lemming? Even worst a Microsoft
lemming?

Do you actually think before you type anything?
Obviously not. I see typos.

[psychosmurf]

This coming from SONYMASTER. . .

. . . by any chance were you once a**holes who designed the root kit that Sony installed on my machine during the DRM debacle?

[spindoctor720]

They're not morons...

I'm sure they're gonna buy a new HD DVD player this weekend because they're on sale too.

Is that moronic?

[mikalg]

Laughing.....

Not sure how to answer that one! LOL

All I am saying is that if you live in Alaska and buy a Corvette to drive around in with three feet of snow all year long....you made a BAD choice!

Should you be able to sue Chevrolet for your asinine choice in vehicles?

I just went to the Corvette website, and see they are claiming superb safety with their traction control and ABS system. Do we blame them for not making an explicit statement that if you drive in three feet of snow, it all becomes moot?

Of course not, but almost everyone has a particular pet peeve about MS (or several) and lets this kind of thing slide because "they deserve it".
Look at these posts on this board! Several people mention things like bloat, and GUI, and darn near everything else that has nothing to do with the story or the topic at all.
Doesn't that tell you something? It tells me that revenge for a blue screen (or a few hundred!) is sweet when the "top dog" gets his chain jerked!

MS has its faults, I'll be the first to admit that, but in this case.....I have to say that this is another McD coffee scandal that SICKENS me to the core.

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Vi$ta sucks

Glad somebody's suing. I'd love to sue M$ for all of the crappy
OSs since Windows ME, and all of the security holes and viruses
and such. With my Apples, I've always been able to use products
up to 7 years, sometimes 10. Windows isn't so lucky. I also
wonder how much lost productivity time I've lost thanks to the
cruddy OS it is, where I seem to spend more time battling it
everyday at work, then just get up and running like I do on Mac
OS X.

And let the Winblow$ fanboys come forth, with there lack of
world knowledge and computing. Hey, dorkwad, getting Doom 3
to run and surfing the Web doesn't mean you're tech savvy
either.

10 PRINT "VISTA SUCKS"
20 GOTO 10
30 END
RUN

[mikalg]

See what I mean!?

It's pervasive! I may not like the thief that lives down the street, but I wouldn't condone planting evidence of murder on him to get rid of him! Maybe someone who didn't like me could do the same to me! Then where are we?

[pfrabott]

Ha

funny thing about your script is line 30 never hits, costing memory for no reason. dummy!

[Seaspray0]

Just another fanboy

"I've always been able to use products up to 7 years, sometimes 10."

Same here. I retired the Compaq LTE 5300 laptop 2 years ago. Made in 1995.

"...for all of the crappy OSs since Windows ME.."

That's your perspective. I don't care for ME or Vista, but the rest were good... good enough to command 95% market share. If OSX was so great, then why is it not the dominant OS today? Recent statistics show it has 7% market share.

"Hey, dorkwad, getting Doom 3 to run and surfing the Web doesn't mean you're tech savvy either."

Calling people you don't know "dorkwad" doesn't mean you're tech savvy either. As for me... MCP, MCSE, MCDBA, A+ certified. I'm atleast willing to back up my tech savvy.

[awesomesauce]

:o

*Their.

Does your "world knowledge and computing" include grammar?

[kanehi]

You know where this is going....

This class action lawsuit is a farce. The lawyers will get 1/2 to 3/4 of the settlement and what does the consumer get? Nothing is free, Microsoft will just pass on the cost to it's customers, maybe not directly but it'll eventually cost us all and then who'll be laughing at the end. Microsoft is not totally to blame. The manufacturers has the option of excluding Vista but then again MS probably strong armed them for using "capable" systems. As far as bloatware.. it's sort of a paid advertisement from software companies.

Once I had a class action settlement from T-Mobile and I only got $3 and some change credited to my account. I wonder how much windfall the lawyers got!

[dwimmer38]

Vista ROCKS!

All you morons who are trashing vista should shut down your windows 95 and actually buy a computer that is capable of running vista and try it for yourself. I have been running vista for over a year and would never go back to XP. It's much more reliable.

[I love Bill Gates]

Vista does rock! I reboot all the time!!

4 gigs of ram, 800 gigs of disc. At first only had to reboot once a day. However as I have added games and programs my reboots have gone up and up. Sometimes 7 or 8 times a day. Luckily I have Vista so I know my reboots will not hang!!!

[smokified]

You can see a lot more with your head on the outside of your ass

I have 3 computers that are more than capable of running windows vista. I still have them setup with both XP and Vista on them because of the ASTRONOMICAL amount of problems that still exist with Vista.

Not only am I a real gamer, but I am an IT professional and I see Vista used in gaming, home and business environments. The OS is not 100% yet. Once it is, it will be to XP what XP was to 98se, but until then, you are far from being correct.

The issue here is not even about Vista being a good operating system, it is about falsly claiming that certain under-powered computers could properly run Vista when in reality they could not.

It is always amusing to witness the irony unfold when one moron tries attempts to get traded off of the team of morons, but just proves why he belongs there.

[pfrabott]

Can't Read I guess...

What I find funny is that people have problems reading. (illiterate I guess) There were two labels which Microsoft proactively promoted the differences, Vista Ready and Vista capable. Vista Ready computers were systems fully prepared to run all features of Windows Vista. Vista capable meant the system could run Vista but would have many features disabled. It was clearly explained by Microsoft when they announced Vista being almost finished in 2006. Not only that and the fact that Microsoft had articles on their web site but Best Buy, Circuit City and Office Depot/Office Max had Windows Vista marketing materials that also explained the difference from Capable and ready very clearly. From this I would agree that people are just out to make a buck.

[ServedUp]

Misery of the Microsoft fan.

Don't cry. I'm sure there are other Microsoft apologists out there
you can blog and be equally miserable with.

[jedicharles]

Re: Can't Read I guess...

You are exactly right. I cannot fathom why there is even a lawsuit here. They were completely forthright about the Vista Capable and Vista Premium Ready labeling programs. They created those to inform the consumer; not to deceive, harm or trick people into buying an incompatible system.

[rdgadz]

4gb patriot ram for 80$?...

in a couple months any computer over 500$ will run vista pretty well, so really what was the point of this suit?

[sanjayb]

Multiple versions = Mutiple confusion

I think MS wouldn't be in such a mess if they had released just one version of Windows. MS releases multiple versions of Windows not too help consumers with different needs but to justify charging a higher price for Windows Ultimate. This is one instance where Apple wins hands down. One OS at one price. Then you wouldn't have this Vista capable, Vista ready BS.

Most people don't care about multiple OS versions. They just want to buy something and have it work well.

[theniche]

Read Vista's Specs

If you want Vista, you better be willing to put more money in a existing system that it is worth. Read the system requirements, buy a computer that will handle your future needs.

If you don't like or can't support Vista on you existing machine, stay with XP

[stevejobless]

Can't even stay with XP

I've got a lappie with XP Home and it has a Designed for Windows XP sticker. If I run Outpost and Nod32 I can then barely run Office. Stick on video skype and the darn thing hits a brick wall. Maxed out the ram and still no joy. Upgraded it to Ubuntu and its been happy since. Shame the sticker seems bonded on with glue that can survive a nuke at close range.

Stickers should be banned in general principle because they look tacky and are a pita to remove.

[mikalg]

POLL: the_decider

Quick poll:

Considering "the_decider" constantly accuses people of being MS fans/shills/etc. and has nothing (of value) good to say about MS:

Is the_decider biased, and bigoted towards MS?

Please, post your comments here. Maybe if I am not the only person who sees this.....

OK, am I PRO MS? How about that?

Do I become PRO MS (and an evil empire slave) when I post an opinion that MS didn't make this disaster of a case?

Why? Because I said ANYTHING that could be positive in the face of all the negative MS posts on the internet. I should be so lucky as to be so one-sided as to take an unreasonable stance and stick to it regardless of what goes on in the world outside.

Maybe he should ask his mom to go out and play? Too many hours in front of the PC :)

[mikalg]

Lets add ServedUp to this too

ServedUp seems to have the "your an MS fan!" disease too.

Very childish. My high school football team can beat your high school football team...all the while we are in our forties!

So stupid!

This has NOTHING to do with a love or hate of Microsoft people! If you are that wrapped up in MS your a sick, SICK, person.

[The_Decider]

How cute

I got my own little stalker.

I could do the same thing and accuse you of being biased. As someone who is getting close to a MS is CS and have used computers for a long time, I feel my opinions have at least some technical weight unlike yours. Do I know everything about computers? Of course not, no one does.

The problem is your opinions are not based on technical merit. In fact you never have anything substantiative to post.

You say biased like it is a bad thing. An opinion is bias, which you can't seem to grasp with your limited intellect. Of course in your world, if you agree with it is not biased.

Quit your shill job and go get some technical education.

Accusing me of not having a life is funny considering your growing obsession and time spent online.