Rep. Lofgren wants residency for foreign engineers
SAN JOSE, Calif.--Foreign-born engineering, science, and math students in the United States should be automatically granted legal residency when they get a job in this country, said California Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren.
Lofgren, a Democrat, spoke to an audience Friday at the Joint Venture: Silicon Valley conference about threats to innovation in the area. She said that about 56 percent of the Ph.D. candidates at the finest schools in the United States are immigrants, and because of the government's current immigration policy, many of those people leave the country.
Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
(Credit: Official Web site for Zoe Lofgren)"We're not only not getting the benefit of the high-end math and engineering talent, but also we're forcing these people to other countries to compete with us and (forcing offshoring)," she said.
Lofgren furthered her argument by saying the nation had a 13 percent decline in the creation of engineering jobs as compared with engineering jobs outside the United States, according to a recent study. (Lofgren is the chair of the Congressional Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.)
John Taylor, professor of economics at Stanford University and former undersecretary for international affairs at the U.S. Treasury, agreed with Lofgren during the panel that immigration is very important. As an example, he said that "we hire 15 new professors every year. All but one of those 15 are foreign born."
Lofgren added: "It makes sense to take those from Ph.D.s in science, engineering, and math and make them legal residents now. It's not a massive amount of people. That's 35,000 people a year."
Still, there's a challenging political situation between the two parties right now, she said, but she hopes to be about to reconcile the differences on issues of immigration this year. "One of three people will be the next president, and all will have fresh approach."
I have a master's in Computer Science and decided against PhD because that would make me unemployable due to over qualification, and I do worry about losing my job and the possibilities of getting another one even with a master's. So why would anyone go into an engineering career if you constantly worry about your job.
And they are paying her and the Democrat party to say it.
Check out a youtube video where a corporate lawyer gives a lecture on "how not to hire American workers".
As far as I am concerned everyone in congress and the white house and the supreme court and corporate management should be shot in the head for treason.
As for the US professors: have they checked the language barriers for the locals? Chinese professors who speak little English are better suited to training Chinese students -- even if they're not biased (a big if), it's just easier to communicate. So the students go on, while the US students tune out, and the cycle repeats.
The US government has to make it clear it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of national origin -- including against US citizens -- and enforce that w/ some back-breaking fines to schools and businesses.
If the foreigners gain citizenship, then they will be just like us (having to be paid fair wages). The foreigners currently in the country are paid less than scale (google: H1B visa + L1 Visa if you want to be outraged about some stuff). Anyway, it is cheaper to hire non-citizens. So, if they become citizens, they will actually lose their jobs, as the employer will just replace them with someone cheaper.
Most of the big technology companies outsource everything they can to foreign countries, and that which cannot be outsourced, they bring in cheaper foreign labor to perform.
The problem is that companies get tax breaks and incentives to send our jobs overseas. Also, tech companies have misled our representatives to think that we need foreign tech laborers, since we are not producing enough.
Actually, the problem is in reverse. Americans go to school for the jobs that they feel they can get, and many of us have stopped going to school for tech, because we know the truth:...
"Thank you for calling HP" (thick Indian accent)
I mean, come on now, get real! The jobs are outsourced like crazy, and foreign laborers are brought in.
The simple problem is that we make it cheaper to hire someone other than an American, when if there is indeed some sort of shortage, the company should be willing to pay a premium for the labor .. but that is not the case!
The simple concept of price/demand would indicate if there is such a HIGH DEMAND for tech workers, then they should also have HIGH PRICES for their services. This IS NOT THE CASE!!!!
Companies outsource because it is CHEAPER!! Make it more expensive, and they will not do it!
Companies hire visa because it is CHEAPER!! Make it more expensive, and they will not do it!!
I have been in corporate america long enough to realize that the decisions ultimately comes down to the penny pinchers, and if they can save a cent, they will.
You can not legislate morality (that, I agree in) But, you can protect American workers.
Why is outsourcing attractive? Price.
Why are foreign workers attractive? Price + Indentured Servitude (Visa workers are severely limited in their ability to seek work with other companies)
I really think the foreign worker visa programs were written by big companies, and then had politicians sign it.
Can you believe that we even have this discussion?
This problem is so EASY to fix.
If you want to hire a foreigner, pay him $5,000 more than you would an American. If you want to outsource, pay them $10,000 more than you would an American. People outsource, not due to skill shortages, but due to $PRICE$.
A high school student can work in a call center! You could have a GED and minimal training and be first-line tech support!
Are you kidding me?
We are letting greedy companies dictate our policies!!!!!
I am kind of outraged, basically!!!
H1-B is a form of "bonded" labor. The existence of person in this country is entirely defined by a corporation, so they can jockey things as they please.
I am a foriegn national with Masters degree , if given GC, I would run a Liqour Store than work in the field of engineering. It is certainly not prudent to give away Green Cards based solely on education, but a better mechanism should be in place for enabling well intentioned people to be part of american fabric, without being treated like bonded labor of a decade or naively giving away residency.
Note: If Illegal Immigrants get path to citizenship, I think it would good for people who stayed legally for a decade in U.S. to get residency.
Increase USA education budget!
We have plenty of $ to protect OIL, how about even 1/10 of that to increase education?
VOTE for change, don't settle for the status quos lousy agenda of OIL over education!
I know, I have a MS. Computer Science with minor in mathematics and the best class I ever took was principles of mass communication -- WOW!!!!
I'll skip some detail and make my points quickly.
1. I personally know of 2 Stanford PhD EE grads, still smart, capable people, not employed for 2+ years. Why? Younger cheaper better is easily findable in the market. How old are these losers? About 45.
2. Young ones see that and decline to go into engineering. The stories of folks being let go from such stalwarts as HP, IBM, Lockheed and others are legendary.
3. 1 out of 15 new Stanford prof hires are born outside the US. That's great for them, but we all accept that Stanford hires superstars, and we're talking the Oscar-winners of professorial talent.
4. I suggest that the problem here is that the organizations want global sourcing as it keeps their employees young and inexpensive. 40+ engineers like myself are not hiring lobbyists on my behalf.
5. Some numbers. July 2007 a project manager in the SF Bay Area was about $70/hr. In Oct 2007 the Microsoft lawsuit (no more than 2 years as a consultant or you become an employee) took effect.
So by Nov 2007 those same project manager jobs became about $35/hr. AT&T, Oracle, Yahoo, and others were able to let those "valuable team members" go and replace them at much lower rates. I'm sure that the stockholders were thrilled, the same folks got positions at lower rates somewhere else, and us 40+ folks STILL did not get the positions!
guidepost100@gmail.com
Personal service corporations pay a flat rate of 35%, now imagine that you can make the stuff over seas, not have to worry about our EPA laws, our workers right and benefits laws, or Workman's comp. on top of that, you wont have to add 35% to the price to cover your taxes. remember, corps don't pay the taxes, they add it to the cost of there goods. and that makes them cost more. were in a bad place to do busyness over here right now. 80 years ago, it was the best. highest wages in the world, best economy, and intelligent people. now we have slipped down the list, we need to get USA educated about it. we can look back at NAFTA also, and get something from that experience too. lets change the laws.
US companies are already competing globally, which means that to stay ahead of the competition they have to compete for the best talent globally too, and if they cannot find the right kind of an employee in the US, at the right price, they will hire one from Russia, China, India, or Western Europe.
What many fail to understand is that keeping highly-qualified foreign workers out of the US does not help to save any jobs in the country! If there is a better qualified candidate somewhere else, the job will go somewhere else, it is that simple.
If you believe that the next foreign engineer who comes to the US will take your job, I am sorry, but you have already lost it. Even if they do not come, your job will will follow them somewhere else if they are better qualified that you are.
Does it mean that a highly-qualified employee in the US cannot keep his high-paying job? No! They will have to compete globally, but if they are better than anyone else out there, they will continue making money. An engineer of their level but from India will be just as expensive to hire.
To put it simply, the laws of supply and demand are still there, it is just that the labor market has expanded to include the rest of the world.
The only question now is whether it is in the best US interest to have the brightest engineers in the US and not somewhere else... You do not have to be an economist to answer this question...
Disclaimer: I am a foreign-born MIT-educated software engineer currently in the US on H1 visa
How many people could/would use this opportunity to bypass controls and checks imposed for national security reasons? Do you really think that the status of engineer or researcher makes you a better person? How many terrorists could use this as a back door to hurt us from the inside?
We need people who not only are educated and capable, but also individuals who respects the USA. We could also rethink our school system in order to provide the kids of this country with an easier access to education.
The USA was/is built on immigration. Nonetheless, times have changed and not every new guest in this country is willing to keep our model alive! Let's be welcoming, but not stupid!
- Silicon Valley owns Zoe
- by buffalojpb February 23, 2008 5:17 PM PST
- Zoe will make sure that Microsoft's buyout of Yahoo gets plenty of obstructions. Unless Bill pays her more than the silicon moguls.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(20 Comments)Replacing well paid Americans with cheap foreign engineers and technicians is something this water carrier for the Silicon billionaires has done for years.
But the liberal media gives this water carrying corrupt liberal a free pass.
Now she wants to create a special allowance that will allow Silicon Valley to replace Americans with a new age bonded employee category.
I wish we could outsource this Lib Dem enemy of American workers.