Under fire, Democrats seek end to spy law feud
Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives have already stood up to President Bush this week, refusing to approve a controversial Senate bill that would immunize telephone companies from lawsuits alleging illegal spying. Now they're being forced to defend their actions against those who contend that inaction endangers national security--and who wonder what happens next.
At a Capitol Hill press conference on Friday afternoon, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said he, Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.), and Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) have already begun trying to resolve what has become a very public disagreement. The leaders said they met with Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) earlier that day to begin discussing how to work out a protracted clash over updates to electronic surveillance law that the Bush administration argues are necessary to keep Americans safe from terrorist threats.
Both the House and Senate are currently beginning a 12-day recess, which means any serious votes won't occur until they return. But between now and then, Hoyer said he's trying to loop Republicans into the discussions, with the hope that some work toward a compromise will occur during each day of the break.
The major sticking point, of course, is whether the final bill should grant legal immunity to telecommunications companies that may have assisted the National Security Agency in conducting warrantless wiretaps in violation of federal law. A bill passed by the Senate on Wednesday would grant such protection, but a version passed by the House in November would not.
Hoyer and the others refused to divulge any details about what a final product might look like--and how it would resolve the key, divisive question of "retroactive" immunity for telephone companies.
Reyes, for his part, said he was keeping an "open mind" about immunity but rejected assertions made by Bush and other Republican leaders that failure to immunize telephone companies from legal action would endanger Americans' security.
Meanwhile, Bush isn't letting up on his dire warnings that failure to extend and expand electronic surveillance law will spell doom for Americans.
After emerging from a Friday morning meeting with congressional Republican leaders, he again berated House Democrats for their failure to pass the Senate bill before a temporary expansion of the spy law, called the Protect America Act, expires Saturday.
"By blocking this piece of legislation our country is more in danger of an attack," Bush said, according to a transcript of his remarks. "By not giving the professionals the tools they need, it's going to be a lot harder to do the job we need to be able to defend America."
The trio of House Democratic leaders was equally unwilling to retreat on their entrenched position, which is that such warnings from Republican leaders are bogus.
They argued that existing surveillance law already permits intelligence agents to obtain court orders--even 72 hours after eavesdropping begins in an emergency situation--and that court orders issued under the expiring Protect America Act are good for up to a year, meaning snooping authorized under that law can continue without interruption while congressional leaders work out a more lasting compromise solution.
This week's unrelenting war of press releases and rhetoric about the surveillance bill, which continued on Friday, sure doesn't bode well for eventual peacemaking between the parties. Still, the Democratic leaders maintained they'll be able to find support for a final bill, whatever it ends up looking like, from both chambers and from the as-yet unamused president.
Waterboarding? That's not torture.
Eavesdrdopping on American citizens? That's not illegeal...
Bush knows best? Yeah right!
If this proves right some higher heads than the tell coms need to
roll.
He says that he's trying to protect the people by (illegally) spying on them. What a load of nonsense.
side with THE LAW. We side with the constitution. Remember that ? Perhaps you haven't read it. Certainly you don't understand it.
Of course, according to bush and the patriot act, anyone who disagrees with the white house IS a terrorist. But perhaps that's the point.
Because for decades before bush, the OTHER presidents were able to prevent terrorist attacks. But not Bush. Regardless of the ample,
numerous and specific warnings, 9-11 happened. And wasn't he surprised. And he did a great job of "hunting down the enemy" by focusing
the vast majority of our resources on a country that had nothing to do with it. (but that happens to be rich with oil, the family business, by
the way)
Perhaps the whole idea of Bushes wet dream pseudo "law" is that anyone who does challenge the authority of king bush should be vulnerable
to prosecution, imprisonment and (as a bonus) torture. Giving immunity to telcos and allowing the president unilateral jurisdiction on determining what is and isn't legal is a real good start. In fact, the way the laws are designed, any "evidence" of "terrorist" activity that is
borne from these illegal surveillance techniques is by law, indisputable. Yes, that's right. In fact, having such laws really allows the
government to just make up whatever evidence they want against anyone because they don't actually have to prove it, they don't even have to
tell you what it is. They don't have to present to a court and hold it up to the light, they merely have to SAY it exists and off you go; no rights,
no lawyer, no habeas corpus, no method whatsoever to dispute or challenge the accusation.
Oh, they would never just make something up to accomplish their agenda.. ( cough cough, iraq, WMDS, yellow cake, cough cough Iran,
nuclear ambitions, cough, threatening navy vessels, cough, "turning the corner", cough.. 935 documented lies about iraq.. thousands of 'lost'
emails, uhh 'we don't torture', uhhh, "only spying on international calls", uhh cough.. on and on .. )
And you have the balls to say that challenging this type of government is siding with terrorists ?
YOU side with terrorists. Bush has done more damage to this country than any al-queda member could dream of,and folks like you have
helped make it possible.
There are already laws in place that allow the intelligence community to gather surveillance on suspects and threats.
Those are the laws that allowed those agencies to send many warning to the white house about "bin laden determined to attack" and
specifically warn about using commercial airliners. The laws worked. The intelligence community worked. It was the white house that didn't.
If bush knows that attacks are planned , the current law allows them to follow up and stop those attacks. If they already have knowledge of
plans, thy can get warrants to gather whatever other intelligence is needed from whoever or whatever company they need to, in order to stop
the attacks.
MAKE NO MISTAKE.. this has nothing to do with spying on terrorists.. IT ONLY HAS TO DO WITH THE POWER TO ARREST AND DISPOSE OF
ANYONE AT ANY TIME WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AT THE PRESIDENTS DISCRETION. It gives the executive the power of a dictator; to force any
entity to cooperate or perish. SS anyone ??
My view of all this is that Bush and the Telco's illegally ignored and broke the laws of this country and our Constitution, and they should all be fired, and sued, and tried, and jailed for High Crimes against our laws. In Fact, they should have all been fired and punished years ago. Where the Hell is our balance of Powers at ? I'm thinking Congress needs to be fired now too, effective immediately !
Anyone second the motion ?
Regardless of what Bush tells us, suicide bombers are not new! We had suicide bombers attack out ships in WW II. We survived without changing the Bill of Rights.
Bush forged documents. He lied to the American people. The CIA had told him that Saddam had no atomic weapons or ties to terrorists. He lied to us. He lied to Congress, even after he learned the truth!
By Allowing Halliburton to control the Iraq oil, and Exxon/Mobile controlling the rest, they could control oil prices, and they tripled the price. Bush, Cheney and company had their stocks triple in price, and even after killing thousands of American soldiers and over 100,000 Iraq citizens, to raise oil prices and get richer, they wanted even more!
Bush and Cheney had the company, that they were heavily invested in, sell food to our soldiers at huge prices. They sold faulty body armor at huge profits, and than they sold body armor that worked for even more!
These guys used the phone taps to catch gay soldiers and kick them out of the service after these men served honorably.
These men, Bush and Cheney charged soldiers for their food while in army hospitals, so these guys could cut more taxes for the rich, including themselves.
Do any of us want to give these monsters the power to listen to all the calls in America without legal warrants? There is a Secret court set up to give legal warrants. Bush and Cheney want power above even those courts.
These men are power mad, greedy and without any moral compass at all! Do not give them any more power! They have lied, cheated and murdered for profits! They must be stopped now!
Mark Heinemann
US Veteran
If anything I say offends anyone, feel free to take a hike!
If I start hacking into random people's e-mail accounts and forwarding all their e-mails to the government, that is still wrong, even if I do find information to help stop some type of crime.
By allowing unlawful spying, we no longer need a police force. Just a jail and a prison guard. The general citizen will be able to just break into any private place they wish and send information back to the government. It will then go through a review process and a jail guard will be dispatched to bring in a new prisoner.
The real issue is not whether to allow immunity for telcos. The issue is whether to let the government expand PAA.
I would rather take that hike along WITH you Mr.
Mark Heinemann, you are 100% correct in your post.
The one major point you did not write is that BUSH disenfranchised the very people that are fighting his profit war, go to http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/167.html
or Better yet my blog at http://www.myspace.com/CLBradford1017
If you remember the Nixon administration you will remember that the chief piece of Watergate was the wiretapping of the DNC, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.
and before another armchair pundit decides that that url shows my leftist leanings, you had better have well over a hundred independent (both left and right)news feeds that you read regulary, before you even think of trolling me
the law, and the companies knew it too. In the military, if your
commander orders you to do something illegal, you have the
obligation to say no. These companies should have the same
regards as the servicemen. If it's good enough for them, it
should be more than enough for the corporations who have
entire devisions dedicated to lawyers. No immunity should be
granted just because President Bush said it was ok to do
something illegal. They knew better, but they just went along.
And besides, if they get prosecuted and he really wants to save
them, he can set aside the judgement, give them clemency, or a
pardon. But he doesn't want to do it, so instead he demands
Congress does it for him.
- Disgusting... This is what happens When...
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by Albee_Freeoneday
February 20, 2008 6:47 AM PST
- The DemoRats are interested in one thing and one thing only. That is THEIR POWER. And F*ck the rest of the country and even members of their own party.
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Reply to this comment
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(20 Comments)Unfortunately, this is what happens when a group is isolated from the people they gave their oath to serve.
The DemoRats want to pass laws that say "Communications companies, we demand you give us private information, but when you get sued... buddy you are on your own. And if you don't give us the information, we will fine you so we can give ti to buy ourselves more votes."
All politicians disgust me. There are none anywhere that are honest. All are out for their own power. And when they disregard their responsibilities to the public they need to be impeached, recalled, and thrown out of office.
Just wait until there is another attack on USA soil. One that could have been prevented but due to wimpy "Can't torture terrorists, close Guantanamo, stop intercepting calls to and from known terrorists, let's just be nice to the terrorists because then they'll like us and won't hurt us. wah, wah, wah." The next attack will not be prevented.
Of course we get the government we deserve. The USA for the most part has turned into a bunch of wimps afraid of their own shadow, expecting a group of power hungry corrupt babies to do something in the people's best interest.