California high court to hear Google age discrimination case

The California Supreme Court said on Wednesday it will consider an age discrimination lawsuit filed against Google by a then-54-year-old manager who was fired six months before the company went public in 2004.

In his lawsuit, Brian Reid alleges he was told he was not a "cultural fit" when he was being fired from his job in February 2004. He also claims that his colleagues referred to him as "old man" and "fuddy-duddy."

Google has declined to comment on the matter but says Reid was let go because the in-house graduate degree program department he had been assigned to was eliminated.

In October, a California state appeals court in San Jose threw out a lower court's decision to dismiss the lawsuit. The appeals court said a jury should have been allowed to consider the evidence in the case, including a statistical analysis that found that younger Googlers typically received better performance ratings and higher bonuses. Google then appealed that ruling.

Reid, who joined Google in June 2002 as director of operations and director of engineering, helped to create the first firewall, and worked on the AltaVista Internet search engine and the alt.* hierarchy of newsgroups in Usenet.

The California Supreme Court did not say when it would hear the case but it will likely be before June, which is when its schedule for hearing oral arguments typically ends.

[volterwd]

Maybe... just maybe

younger people do better since they they are 'in the culture'. <br /><br />I doubt there are many jobs that simply require dead programming and even if there were it's possible the young people are better at it.

[ghostofitpast]

On the other hand...

Maybe (just maybe) there are decisions (say about design, usability, customer satisfaction, etc.) that actually benefit from experience (what a concept)! For that matter maybe (just maybe) only Serge and Larry are allowed to make those decisions! Perhaps younger people are more malleable than those old farts who have learned (from experience) how to stick up for their positions in an argument!

[jpeckcnet]

You have no idea who Brian Reid is...

&gt; younger people do better since they they are 'in the culture'<br /><br />Jeez, Brian Reid has been part of the culture since long before 99% of you even heard of the net. And not just part of the culture, he had a big part in creating it.<br /><br />Go do some research. Try searching wikipedia for Brian Reid and for Altavista. Or even read his bio page.<br /><br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://justus.anglican.org/reid.html" target="_newWindow">http://justus.anglican.org/reid.html</a><br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altavista" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altavista</a><br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_scientist%29" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_scientist%29</a>

[Meerkat71]

Just remember that ....

when they informed you that you are being replaced with a younger version. History repeats itself.

[itango]

I myself experienced age discrimination

when I applied for a position at Google legal in 2002. Although my resume was stellar, and it was clear that I had more than the required experience listed in the job description (plus two independent recommendations to their HR department, one from a person at CISCO and another from a person at a semiconductor company that gave me the name and contact information of the recruiter), the recruiter told me that since I was over 50, I would not be a "good fit" with the Google culture, because they were looking for people under 30, and I had no hope of being hired.<br /><br />At that time, knowing I had 0 chance of being hired, I told the recruiter that it seemed to me that perhaps lack of work experience was a plus in other areas, but it was definitely a negative in the legal area, and maybe "all the kids needed a voice of experience, and an "adult" in charge". <br /><br />My interview (if I can call it that) left me with the impression that the prevailing view at Google is that older people do not have the energy or the ability to work in a challenging environment (I always worked in that enviroment), and that they do not know how to communictae with younger people.<br /><br />I found a good position, where I have been for the last 4 years, and have been promoted accordingly. But I am appalled that Google could discriminate so blatantly, while "adhering" to their motto "do no evil". <br /><br />Perhaps they do not consider discrimination due to factors a person cannot change such as age, sex or race (I am also a member of a protected minority class and a woman) "evil". If so, they all need diversity and sensitivity lessons.

[enovikoff]

Not just a google problem

As a 40-year-old who worked in a startup of 20-somethings, I can attest to the age discrimination. I don't think it's a Google problem alone: it's our society, and especially the Silicon Valley youth culture, which resulted from the mad hiring sprees over the last 10 years. The fact was that I got to watch all the 20-somethings I was managing eagerly making the same mistakes I'd made 15 years earlier, while rationalizing away my experience as being that of someone who was too old to understand that it was a Brave New World.<br /><br />The best industry publications have run a lot of articles recently about how the technology industry is under-experienced and has too much of a cowboy mentality, which is causing it to lose out to other companies in other cultures where age is respected and embraced. Many large companies here in the US realize that and are in a panic to find ways to keep their more experienced workers. <br /><br />There's nothing wrong with either age or youth in a work environment, and in fact my experience as a manager is that a team with both younger and older members outperforms a homogenous one. However, if the management is also too young to know any better - and has the typical Silicon Valley hubris of youth - you end up with what happened at Google. <br /><br />The only way to solve the problem is awareness. And unfortunately in today's corporate world, that awareness comes from losing lawsuits and having to take liability into account. I'm hoping for a big judgement against Google. It couldn't happen to a nicer company, and they'll be the better for it, after the pain wears off.

[FutureGuy]

so much for "do no evil"

Google is a wolf in sheep's cloting.

[gurfrip]

Do No Evil or O NO!! DEVIL!

I think the googleplex has given all new meaning to mismanagement of success.

[volksair]

Over the Hill

Is Google run by Asians, In Asia if your over 35 forget it your a has been. It seems they bring that mentality here to the states, that and the corrupt business practices.

[M_K_Higa]

Asia is a pretty big continent.

You're painting with a broad brush. I see a lot of big time Asian companies operating in the US. Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Samsung, LG... The list goes on. In these companies, I'm sure you would be considered a baby at age 35.<br /><br />That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of corrupt businesses in Asia, but the US has it's share of corruption too.

[RHartzell]

Elevator assessment

I'm 52 and work in NYC in the same building Google moved into a year or two ago -- they occupy 2 or 3 floors.<br /><br />While I can't say I've *never* seen anybody my age get into the elevator from a Google floor, the vast majority I do see appear to be no more than 30 ... and many seem to be in their mid '20s.<br /><br />Of course, I'm not so old that I can't remember what it felt like to be young and to work with older people who seemed unimaginative and stuck in a prior generation. But there's a world of difference between, on the one hand, being young and succumbing to such superficial assessments and, on the other, allowing them to become corporate policy -- even (or especially) if it's based on the unspoken assumption that older employees are unlikely to be a "good fit".

[gurfrip]

Well said.

Absolutely, Google, Inc. has an obvious cultural problem that might be rooted in an arrogance that is often overcome only by experience and market cycles.<br /><br />It is unfortunate that the United States Government has been so supportive of this organization and little has been done as we see no comment out of the EEOC on this important matter.<br /><br />To see Eric Schmidt meet with NASA and critique our Nations most successful agency in scientific advancement, then be invited to meet with the President's Management Committee is exactly the opposite of what should be done on this corporation that is dealing with more cases of malfeasance than any company so young (5 years on NASDAQ) in US Markets History.<br /><br />The disrespect for maturity at google is an epidemic in an unregulated internet industry.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br /><br />James Reginald Harris, jr.<br />INVENTOR YOU TUBE BUSINESS MODEL<br />&#38; www.genusi.com

[gurfrip]

Mr Reed, we'd love to have you join gurfrip systemz

Mr. Reed,<br /><br />Please consider joining us at www.genusi.com where we respect experience, leadership and maturity. We will have a training program that might suit your tallents ideally.<br /><br />Please consider this, we'd love to have you on board.<br /><br />I have also exprienced google's disdain for maturity in approach, it will be their downfall.<br /><br />infantia erro propter avarus<br /><br />Thank you,<br /><br /><br />James Reginald Harris, Jr<br />INVENTOR, YOU TUBE BUSINESS MODEL<br />www.genusi.com

[ebg_51]

Youth Always Re-Inventing the Wheel

As an engineer, I see young engineers making the same DUMB mistakes that I did whenI was their age. Been-There-Done-That helps avoid many of the trial-and-error scenarios we see with younger workers. I see many of the young engineers who are great with computers and software, but do not actually know WHY or the history behind some of the decisions we make.<br /><br />Then again, young engineers can help us to overcome a certain mindset to explore new posibilities. One really needs the other

[Below Meigh]

28? PhD? Slim? Attractive? We're hiring!

Been to Googlex campus. Nothing but 20-30's, smart, attractive employees. You bet they discriminate! Elitest always do.<br />And I quote a Google employee, "It's like being back at school except you collect a paycheck!".<br /><br />Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd enjoy working there. However, they likely call me fuddyduddy even if I were the custodian (ergo janitor). Just remember, Googlers, someone has to empty that trash can near the community kitchen-food areas...

[inachu]

Just as long as he pulled his own weight.

No matter your age if you pull your weight in the tech world be it his or in helpdesk software/hardware then you should never be fired.<br /><br />If someone kept asking you to carry their sever they just built to the server room and you do this as a friendly gesture then perhaps the requesting employee needs to be fired.

[Tour18]

Google Blacklisted

I just blacklisted google on my network. That's 1,250 clients that won't be clicking their way.<br /><br />See, one thing that come with age is the power to influence that comes with trust.

[duggerdm]

Nothing to do with age - just the higher salaryies for experience.

I work with a number of IT institutions with ones with large IT departments - both service providers and program development businesses. The idea that IT is some how better understood or better enformed by the young is total bunk - a marketing myth that has no basis - unless you are talking solely about the electronic gaming industry. In general, the US has been a substantial decline in general education skills for many years - especially in the math and sciences in recent years. This is all well documented across the country on educational testing. <br /><br />All the companies I am working with are experiencing major customer satisfaction problems as well as economic losses - because they will not hire competent, appropriately trained and experienced people - regardless of age. They hire the cheapest entry level in the IT work force with minimal training and little or no real experience in the particular areas in which they will be working - which is generally the youngest applicants.<br /><br />Executive management compounds the problems because their managers have often grown up as a part of the same system - with no broader perspectives. Now they are poorly trained IT managers with minimal depths of experience. These enterprises wonder why their clients are slamming them and their products/ services because their systems and or programing are buggy, undependable, and or non-functioning with high down times. I find many companies that have major IT components simply don't have or rely on executive management with enough technical understanding to hire the appropriately trained/experienced IT people for the technical tasks at hand - because they don't have the experience and training themselves that they need to be able to recognize superior candidates for IT jobs - to say nothing of their totally technically incompetent duffus HR people.<br /><br />Google is clearly very technically competent, but their management is equally likely very short on the professional management skills and depths to manage Google as it becomes so much larger. This makes the founders very likely to be intimidated by people like Brian Reid with far more experience and depth than they. This is a basic human insecurity management problem that goes far beyond IT management and is very common in young companies. It will be interesting to see what the courts decide.

[toddintr]

Truth about Google?

I really would like to understand the true Google behind the scenes - are they as altruistic as they wish to be seen, or are they like any other company? I know firsthand that their technology is superior. But negative stories, such as this one, seem to be surfacing. I would appreciate receiving further sources on a true snapshot of the company.

[walwebster]

Money talks

Just lately, a variation on Peter Finch's "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!" has occurred to me in such situations: just ask if you could deal with someone a little OLDER, please. And if the answer's no, assuming that it's possible to do so, take your business elsewhere. They can get stuffed.

[ann11912]

No wonder Google makes useless applications. They don't really 'invent' anything, they just reuse or reapply. <br /><br />Games, iGoogle are kind of worthless and really clutter on your webpage. Coming up with colorful 'backgrounds' and Google labels to change and embellish on your google page -- with bears, rabbits, flowers and other things that appeal to a 10 year old --- is what they pay these genius 20 somethings for? I'd rather have Yahoo, which at least links to useful information and organizes lots of USEFUL applications like groups, photos, greetings and other useful web functions.<br /><br />What will happen when Google's founder hit that 40 mark? Will they retire [they probably could] and let the 20 somethings take over -- at the very least that is what they should volunteer to do, right away, since they'll be headed for that 'old guy' category and not very smart or capable anymore by their own standards. <br /><br />For sure by 50, they should all be out the door as well as other Google folks making these decisions themselves to hire or fire --- if they set these standards they should live by them and follow them. Maybe Google should set up a program to encourage their staffers to leave by 40 or 45, so I hope those 20 somethings are planning now for early retirement [barring more upsets in the 401K or stock market -- heaven help them if that happens again].