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August 21, 2007 4:52 PM PDT

Comcast denies monkeying with BitTorrent traffic

by Marguerite Reardon

Comcast on Tuesday denied rumors that the company is filtering BitTorrent traffic running over its network.

BitTorrent is a peer-to-peer file sharing protocol used to distribute large data files such as video. The protocol has been used widely throughout the Internet to distribute pirated movies. And sites that use the protocol have been targeted by the movie industry to stop the illegal distribution of copyrighted video.

Broadband providers have also not been big fans of BitTorrent because the use of the peer-to-peer protocol can clog networks with huge files. The blog TorrentFreak claims that several Internet Service Providers have been "throttling" or limiting BitTorrent traffic on their networks for the past two years. And last week, the blog accused Comcast of going even further to limit the use of BitTorrent on its network.

The blog claimed that some Comcast users had noticed that their BitTorrent transfers were being cut off and that they experienced a significant decrease in download speeds.

Over the past few days, these claims have been widely circulated throughout the Web. But when I spoke to Comcast spokesman Charlie Douglas earlier today, he flat-out denied that the company was filtering or "shaping" any traffic on its network. He said the company doesn't actively look at the applications or content that its customers download over the network. But Comcast does reserve the right to cut off service to customers who abuse the network by using too much bandwidth.

So what constitutes "too much" bandwidth? Douglas didn't specify exact figures, but he gave a few examples that would likely get subscribers into trouble. For example, someone who sends more than 13 million e-mails a month, which breaks down to about 430,000 e-mails a day or 18,000 e-mails an hour, would likely get a letter or phone call from Comcast about excessive use. Sending roughly 250,000 photos or downloading more than 30,000 songs a month might also raise an eyebrow at Comcast, he said.

"More than 99.99 percent of our customers use the residential high-speed Internet service as intended, which includes downloading and sharing video, photos and other rich media," he said. "But Comcast has a responsibility to provide these customers with a superior experience, and to address any excessive or abusive activities usage issues that may adversely impact that experience."

In the rare instances the company has to enforce its policy, Douglas said that Comcast contacts subscribers to work out the issue. But he firmly reiterated that the company doesn't filter or throttle back traffic.

The issue of shaping traffic or blocking certain applications is a hot one and goes right to the heart of the Net Neutrality debate, which has been raging for more than a year. Broadband providers claim that their networks have finite resources and they must be allowed to identify traffic in some manner to set quality of service parameters to ensure users get certain levels of service. But consumer advocates say that the network ought to be neutral and traffic should flow freely to ensure that all applications are accessible.

Personally, I can see the merits of both arguments. It makes sense that broadband providers would want to protect their network assets. But it seems like a slippery slope in terms of how far we allow these service providers to go. And I can see why consumer advocates might be concerned that AT&T or Comcast might block applications like Google's YouTube, which could potentially compete with their own services.

There's also the issue of privacy. If operators are identifying applications and protocols to ensure good quality of service, couldn't they also identify the content of my e-mails or see which songs or movies I downloaded?

Marguerite Reardon has been a CNET News reporter since 2004, covering cell phone services, broadband, citywide Wi-Fi, the Net neutrality debate, as well as the ongoing consolidation of the phone companies. E-mail Maggie.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (42 Comments)
Comcast Lies
by stenar August 21, 2007 5:40 PM PDT
Comcast is totally lying when they say they're not messing with
Torrent traffic.

For the past few weeks, whenever I start a torrent download, I
mysteriously lose my internet connection for 5-10 minutes or an
hour or more. Comcast is totally behind this nonsense.
Reply to this comment
Also monkeying with speed tests
by thenet411 August 21, 2007 6:02 PM PDT
Comcast is also caching speed tests. They are almost as dishonest as AT&T. They all suck.
comcast deceives
by sadchild August 22, 2007 6:32 AM PDT
yep they lie and deceive. like that bandwidth cap that they don't (actually do) have.

http://news.com.com/2100-1034_3-5079624.html
Comcast denies monkeying with BitTorrent traffic
by thebumboys August 21, 2007 6:10 PM PDT
are you kidding, of coarse the providers are carefuly monitoring traffic, it is thier business to try to get you to pay as much as possible while telling you that it's all about you getting excellent service
I suggest we get wise to paying for explicit amounts of so called "broadband" at a fair price without ANY traffic police, it's stupidly simple to know what you pay for and to keep it within you're paramaters without playing this suckers game
Reply to this comment
Assumptions
by ethana2 August 21, 2007 8:21 PM PDT
All those copyright arguments-- I have this to say-- people who infringe on copyright need to be pointed to open source software and creative commons media.

All of my torrents as of late have been Linux distro install images and albums from jamendo.com.

I may be in the minority- but you have to ask- would the MaFIAA rather have stuff pirated, or would they rather have it boycotted? I think they'd rather have it pirated, honestly- same with software like windows. I say spare yourself. It's easier to submit feature requests than screw with whatever dictatorial restrictions mongering the proprietary people try to pull.

ethana2@gmail.com, if you want a hand out of the mess.
Reply to this comment
Good for Comcast! Stop these thieves in their tracks
by WJeansonne August 21, 2007 8:24 PM PDT
Nuff said.
Reply to this comment
Thanks. I appreciate that.
by Trump48257 August 21, 2007 9:33 PM PDT
Thanks so much. I really appreciate being called a thief for downloading the latest version of Ubuntu. That makes me feel wonderful.
What about the rule of law?
by timonkey August 21, 2007 9:41 PM PDT
"Nuff said."
oh po wittle baybee
by SeizeCTRL August 22, 2007 5:40 AM PDT
Get real, Bit Torrent is used for a lot of reasons... the last 3 linux distributions I downloaded via torrents. I have seen some game companies putting their patches through torrents.

The only 'pirated' stuff I download via torrents are TV shows that I miss, and I figure since I am paying for DirecTV and cable, that should justify me downloading the shows I missed. Also in most cases like Stargate SG-1 / Atlantis, I end up buying the seasons. Lost I would download just to watch again the next day at work, and buy the seasons on DVD as well. Shows like Robot Chicken which come on too late on Sunday nights for me to watch, I download as well, have season 1 on DVD and plan on getting season 2 when it comes out in 2 weeks. So where the harm in that?

The one movie I did download was Sunshine and that's because it was not released within 600 miles of where I live... so it was the only way for me to see it. I loved the movie and guess what, when it is released on DVD, I will buy that as well.

But I guess I am a thief who needs to be stopped... cause me paying for cable and DirecTV and buying the DVDs doesn't make up for the fact that I am a god awful bit torrent user who must be stopped.
View all 2 replies
Comcast used to be fast. No longer.
by inachu August 22, 2007 4:39 AM PDT
I am always ont he look out for the best and latest release of Linux no matter the branding and like to try them all out. Be it a direct download or through bit torrent I agree that the speed on comcast is horrible. Sometimes using bit torrent to get debian will take me 3 weeks even when more than 900 people are seeding.

Direct downloads are a roll of the dice. Most often than not they die at 50%.

I wish I had a non compete agreement with comcast so I could see all data on the network by uncapping my cable modem and see what is really going on. I would make the perfect network police looking for hoggers.

I suspect that perhaps video plays a big part for the bandwidth problems.
Applications like Winamp steaming TV and asias #1 video player is called PPSTREAM is a major bandwidth hog. My main bone with comcast is they don't have enough DNS servers....
Reply to this comment
maybe...
by basraw August 22, 2007 6:02 AM PDT
it's your neighbors sucking up all your bandwidth downloading the latest bart simpson movie
Insufficient Comcast DNS Servers
by c|net Reader August 23, 2007 9:39 AM PDT
I long ago switched to using OpenDNS.com for that reason.
Comcast Want MORE $$$$$
by danyp1 August 22, 2007 5:48 AM PDT
I am one of the banned offenders. My downloads exceeded the ever ellusive and mystrious number they call normal. They warned me, but would not tell me how much I needed to curtail my bandwith usage. I still exceeded the norm and was banned.
HOWEVER...for just $36 more a month and a drop frpm 8M to 6M (I could not afford to stay at 8M) I was allowed to open another account...a business account. This account has unlimited bandwidth, is not monitored by the Comcast gestapo and I haven't been bothered since.

My point is, I did not change locations, lines or networks. I am still depriving my neighbors of their deserved bandwidth and doing all the "wrong things" (in Comcast's view)that I was doing before, but now they get more money and its for a 2 year contract so it is OK with Comcast. They don't care about my neighbors service, only about their bottom line.
Reply to this comment
The truth behind "too much bandwidth"
by winstein August 22, 2007 5:51 AM PDT
There is a fixed cost for every bit of bandwidth: To maximize profit, they have to limit the speed, or number of bits/bytes transfered. Comcast choose to increase the speed but limit the bytes transfer to compete with DSL. It is nothing new.
Reply to this comment
Comcast POWER BOOST
by basraw August 22, 2007 6:08 AM PDT
I see the advertisement says it only boosts for up to 10 meg files or something.

But I'm guessing power boost only works if the network traffic isn't heavy.

Anyways, I thought my Motorola Modem docsis 1.1 was limited to 10 megs? So how does a speed boost help? "It will be deployed throughout the rest of Comcast's region later this year and, when available, increase speeds to 12Mbps and 16Mbps."


On their FAQ:

How long does the PowerBoost burst last?

A PowerBoost burst will normally last as long as the 10MB of a file download on Comcast's 6Mbps High-Speed Internet service, and as long as 5MB of a file upload.
Reply to this comment
Great deal Again for us the PAYING customer
by julius027 August 22, 2007 6:41 AM PDT
Hello washintong
Reply to this comment
not much of throttling but sure controlling
by sgoren August 22, 2007 6:43 AM PDT
Hey did a 3gig download on the weekend, nothing illegal, just some software I got original serial number for but no the cds, and it was fast in less than a day.
But, I just got a email stating the I was doing an illegal download, copyright infringement. So, be careful.
Reply to this comment
More lies from Comcast
by dnev6784 August 22, 2007 7:22 AM PDT
If they are telling you that there is no monitoring, then they are lying to you. This is just a P.R. situation that they dont want to get out of control without answering. There have been so many situations where my bit torrent traffic has been so much slower than in previous places where I was using a different provider.

I realize that the nature of Torrent traffic is variable depending on the users, available hosts, etc. But I still feel that Comcast has it out for me and the other BitTorrent users.

The real problem is that the neighborhoods around America dont allow for more than one cable provider, so even if I wanted to switch from Comcast to say Brighthouse (Road Runner), I couldn't. And we all know how much DSL sucks in comparison. This is the real travesty.
Reply to this comment
Same thing happened to me
by dnev6784 August 22, 2007 7:24 AM PDT
Lost the internet connection, and tried for a while to reset the modem. Finally got it back up and running, and contacted Comcast, who had no answer. They sent out some third party service tech after the 3rd time this happened and he seemed to agree with me. THe line condition coming to the house was in good shape, and there werent any outages reported from users in the area. Looks like the government or some agency is sleeping with Comcast.
Reply to this comment
COMCAST NOSE KEEPS GETTING LONGER
by savy granny August 22, 2007 8:16 AM PDT
Comcast can deny all they want, but they lie. They threatened to close my account down for a file that wasnt even downloaded.
Reply to this comment
same thing
by sgoren August 22, 2007 9:19 AM PDT
On my previews post I commented about getting the letter, well it was a regarding a file that was never downloaded, just searched for, plus I got also the key code for it.
View reply
anger
by presage August 22, 2007 8:50 AM PDT
I hate how these companies offer "unlimited bandwith" and then impose a limit, which they will never discuss. Isn't there anything that could be done legally to get companies to come forth with that information rather than hiding behind a bush about it? I've heard too many stories of ISPs pulling this same crap over and over again.
Reply to this comment
Well, when you're caught with burglar tools in your trunk
by WJeansonne August 22, 2007 8:54 AM PDT
What's a cop to believe?
Reply to this comment
Not necessarily...
by chuck_whealton August 23, 2007 3:25 PM PDT
Well, I wouldn't say that's 100% true.

Yea, P2P networks are often used to send around pirated movies/music/etc. However, recently I've seen them used to send around legitimate open source software, most recently (for myself) OpenOffice.org for my Macintosh. Grant it, I was highly reluctant to use it simply because it was P2P and has such a bad wrap.

Just because somebody has a DVD writer doesn't mean they're pirating DVDs. Likewise, not all P2P use is for stealing.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Sorry, dude.
by WJeansonne August 22, 2007 8:58 AM PDT
As usual a few bad apples has to spoil it for the rest. No offense intended. I was referring to the dishonest people that use it primarily as a burglar tool.
Reply to this comment
AOL was similar
by mikeburek August 22, 2007 9:58 AM PDT
Remember when AOL signed up more people than they had modems to connect? Did they get sued for saying they would provide 24x7 access, but they far from did. Wasn't that about the time that AOL started losing customers left and right because people decided to find something else that did work?

So if Comcast, or AT&T, or others keep putting limits on "unlimited" connections, eventually, there will be a lawsuit, and people will leave, and other companies will get all the leaving customers.
Reply to this comment
Start a free network
by mikeburek August 22, 2007 10:03 AM PDT
What would it take for a local organization to start their own network for a city? Would that group have to run their own network lines, or could they lease what was already there from cable companies? Setting up connections within a small area would be easier to start with before replacing the backbones.
Reply to this comment
I meant a neutral network
by mikeburek August 22, 2007 10:05 AM PDT
It would have to be paid access, similar to current paid access.

Maybe only set priority for IP-phone. Then regular web. Then let all the other stuff use as much bandwidth as the person paid for until it hurts the IP-phone.
View all 2 replies
They're definitely killing P2P
by notgonnatellya August 22, 2007 10:47 AM PDT
Technically, comcast's rep did lie, since they don't know what app you're running, and they don't look at what you're downloading, but there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that they're sending forged reset packets to customers using P2P.

And even if you didn't look at the packets, you can just watch how a clients repeatedly try to connect only to be disconnected within 30 seconds.

Half the time I now have an upload rate of 0-5KB/s

Of course downloads are never close to the advertised rate (when d/l from download, tucows and so on).
Reply to this comment
Oh please
by Kimsh August 22, 2007 2:24 PM PDT
Of course it could not possibly be some generic hacker out there sending those reset packets, no one would be that lacking in altruism. And the load on servers has nothing to do with the slow download speed you might see.
Please, this is foolishness.
Comcast has to be doing something
by Leria August 22, 2007 7:30 PM PDT
Comcast has to be doing something. Personally, I am getting the same download rates on Bittorrent when I am download something from someone else as I always got.

However, when I try to seed something after I am done downloading...... I cannot get a connection to any peers for more than an instant and sometimes not even that.
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 2 pages (42 Comments)
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