Blu-ray v. HD DVD: Where do we stand?
The expected next-generation DVD format war isn't quite the deadlock many expected.
Target's announcement Thursday that it would sell a Sony Blu-ray player in its stores alongside Blu-ray discs in a special feature promotion is important because the second-largest retailer in the U.S. doesn't sell HD DVD players in its stores, outside of the external HD DVD drive made for Microsoft's Xbox 360. It does sell a Toshiba HD DVD player on its Web site, however.
When the battle between the competing optical disc formats--HD DVD and Blu-ray--began brewing last year, analysts predicted protracted trench warfare, many refusing to choose sides. But just six months after the first Blu-ray players went on sale, the numbers show that the fight may be nearing its conclusion.
Blu-ray got way out ahead of HD DVD by virtue of Sony's PlayStation 3 console, which came preloaded with a Blu-ray player. Of the 1.5 million Blu-ray players sold in the U.S., 1.4 million are PS3s, according to the Blu-ray Disc Association. HD DVD had an advantage in that its players were less expensive than Blu-ray--at first. Though HD DVD prices have come down, Blu-ray's have as well.
Toshiba, one of the staunchest supporters of HD DVD, said last month that initial forecasts of sales of discs and external HD DVD drives was probably a bit ambitious. The Japanese electronics maker said it anticipates selling 1 million players and recorders in North America this year, down 44 percent from the earlier estimate of 1.8 million. The Digital Entertainment Group reports that HD DVD has sold 300,000 HD DVD players, and half of that figure is the external drive that pairs with Microsoft's Xbox 360.
Things looked bad for HD DVD last month when Blockbuster said the only high-definition DVDs it would rent in its stores would be Blu-ray. HD DVD will be available, however, on its Web site, Blockbuster.com.
In yet another sign that two competing formats may be a thing of the past, earlier this month Warner Bros., a studio supporting both formats, announced that its Total HD disc--HD DVD on one side, Blu-ray on the other--would likely be delayed until early 2008. Though Warner Bros. says the timing isn't right and the dual-format disc will still be a viable business idea six months from now, it's looking more like it won't even be necessary.
Click on the chart above for a breakdown of the numbers.
Correction: The initial version of this blog incorrectly cited the Digital Entertainment Group on the number of Blu-ray players sold. The number is from the Blu-ray Disc Association.
Erica Ogg is a CNET News reporter who covers Apple, HP, Dell, and other PC makers, as well as the consumer electronics industry. She's also one of the hosts of CNET News' Daily Podcast. In her non-work life, she's a history geek, a loyal Dodgers fan, and a mac-and-cheese connoisseur. E-mail Erica.
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main reason I even upgraded from a PS1 to a PS2 was the fact that I
could use it as a DVD player.
When I finally breakdown and get a PS3 the Blu-Ray player will be
my biggest justification for the cost of the console. Hell, a stand
alone Blu-Ray player costs more than the PS3. I like the 2 for 1
idea. ;-)
It's easy to do with a dedicated device, but not so easy with a multifunction device. It's also easy to find out who uses a specific medium. But when you try to find out how many people use a specific hardware it hard to tell. Let's use the movie "300" as an example. And let's say that it sells 32,345 DVD's, 12,429 HD-DVD's, and 16,183 Blu-ray disks on it's first day released (not sure if those are realistic numbers but that part doesn't matter too much) While you might be saying the number of DVD's sold is irrelevant, it is because anyone could have bought them including the people who bought a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player (not very likely but there would be some people who would because they don't want to get caught too far in the format because it became a standard). But with the other two formats, the numbers are too small to tell whether the person has a dedicate machine or a game system, so finding out the number of disk won't do us any good to find out who uses the PS3 as a movie player.
There is only one way to tell how many PS3 owners actually use there system to watch movies and that is to survey the owners. And not even this is 100% accurate, and there have been instances where a surveys have been invalidated do to zealous owners and companies, but it's really the only way we could possibly find out how many PS3 owners actually use there systems to watch movies.
I do realise I did not really chose the best comment to, but I'm too lazy to care at this point. And by the way, the only functional game systems I have are from Nintendo, and have all the the home systems from the NES all the way to the Wii. Not quite sure where the N64 came from and I don't have any games for it, but I do have it. I also have everything I need to play any handheld game released in North America, so I can theroerically play any Nintendo game with the exclusion of the virtual boy and e-card games, but I don't really think I'm missing out there.
The main reason that only 100,000 dedicated blu ray players have been sold is that people can get a ps3 for the same price or cheaper. Does that not compute with you?
The way we can tell which format is winning is very very simple. You see, the reason people care about selling blu ray and hd-dvd players is so that they can sell the discs. All we need to do is see how many discs are being sold. Oh look, blu ray is winning.
I wish everyone would stop being so desperate to find a victor in this format war, because, in case it hadn't occurred to anyone, format wars are a good thing. It's GOOD for US that we have 3 great consoles battling for our favor, because format wars provoke price wars. The companies are bound to keep slashing prices until they win. Why complain?
So.. everyone bought a few blu-ray discs to show off their expensive game console. Who cares. Numbers will die down as people realize that buying these discs are a waste of money anyways.
Toshiba offers a sub $150 player and sells it along side DVD players, I think the war will be far less important.
everything in sight, and there is another side, HD DVD, which
forgot to show up for the fight.
It amazes me that people are still commenting to the effect of
"far from over" and "give HD DVD a chance". I don't think these
people actually read all of the stories out there.
It seems the only leg the HD DVD defenders (zealots?) have left
to stand on is the argument "well, not every PS3 is being used to
play movies!" This argument isn't even cogent, let alone logical.
Forget the fallacies with the claim itself for a moment: the
validity of assuming PS3 sales as Blu-Ray player sales is
empirically backed by the superiority of Blu-Ray media sales
compared to HD DVD sales. The deals that have emerged from
Target and Blockbuster indicate that Blu-Ray media is
outperforming HD DVD. If more people are buying Blu-Ray
movies, it stands to reason that more people own Blu-Ray
players. Which thus lends itself to the notion that maybe - just
maybe - PS3 owners have heard the rumor that their console
also plays Blu-Ray discs.
Americans in particular are impulse buyers, often driven by a
need for glitz, glamour, and the latest greatest (see: iPod,
iPhone, etc). If someone buys a PS3, they're likely going to want
to buy a Blu-Ray movie just to try it out - just because it's new.
And 1 hour and 45 minutes later, you have a Blu-Ray camper.
But all this discussion is moot - the simple fact is that
Hollywood primarily supports Blu-Ray and retailers are
beginning to favor Blu-Ray as well. Those two points alone
prove the war is over.
The people that still defend HD DVD vex me. What do you have
invested in this fight anyway? Do you work for Toshiba? Why do
you really care so much which format wins? If we were arguing
PS3 verse Xbox 360, I could understand fanboyism - but what
has possessed people to become cult followers of HD DVD?!
HD-DVD sold 300,000
There are 500 million dvd players world wide so so far blue ray has captured 0.2% of the dvd player market, while hd-dvd has captured 0.03%...so far most consumers have ignored the new players on both sides
The key number is price, the cheapest blu-ray player is over $400 while the hd-dvd player has dropped over the summer to under $250.
I suspect sony made some sort of deal with target because walmart is possibly planning to come out with its own hd-dvd player.
As far as the Target and Blockbuster Blu-ray exclusive arrangements, it doesn't but Blu-ray that much farther ahead of HD-DVD. Target has only said that they would no longer carry stand-alone HD-DVD players, but would continue to sell movies and the Xbox 360 add-on in stores AND continue to sell HD-DVD players on their website. The Blockbuster Blu-ray exclusive is even less devastating. While yes, they will not carry HD-DVD's in stores-with the exclusion of the 250 stores where it test marketed both formats-but still offer both formats online. It really doesn't seem like anyone is really ready to brush off HD-DVD's yet, and it's not as if people would be able to tell the difference between the quality of a Blu-ray and HD-DVD movie, because what it really comes down to is the picture quality, and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who can tell the difference. Also, the number of players doesn't really indicate that a format will go mainstream; just look at UMD movies, sure studios still release a few now and then, but for the most part that one's dead despite the number of PSP's that have been sold.
On the other hand, you say Toshiba sold 300,000 HD DVD players, half of which were X-box add-ons, so 150,000 HD DVD players were purchased by consumers looking for a HD video player.
By your own admission 50,000 more consumers who were looking for a HD video player (not a video game machine)purchased HD DVD over Blue-ray.
All your sad statistics prove is that PS3 is outselling the X-Box HD DVD drive add-on.
It also seems to me that you're compairing all the Blue-ray players sold in the US to how many HD DVD players Toshiba sold.
Was that figure of 300,000 HD DVD players sold just Toshiba, or all companies who sell HD DVD drives?
Do you or any member of your family work for Sony by any chance? Get any free Blue-ray players lately?
I haven't even bothered to buy an HD tv yet, since I spend more time on the computer than focused on a tv, but Blu-ray seems like the better option. I don't have any preference in the console market; the Wii looks fun, the PS2 has a ton of good titles, the XBox360 has a few nice looking games, and the PS3 has potential and a very few games. But I have enough fun things to do that I don't need one.
Secondly, while part of the 1.4 million PS3's could be considered game only...the fact was, that the cheapest Blu Ray player, was for a long time, the PS3. So a certain number of PS3's were sold to be Blu Ray players, and not for games. We won't know the number. But, judging by sales of movies, its obvious that many of those PS3's are used to play movies.
The original article is right, your analysis, wrong headed.
Contrary to your thinking, I'm confused as to why anyone would be a standalone player ... even if they're not interested in gaming.
Besides, who cares why people bought them originally. The Blu-Ray remote control has been one of the top-selling item on Amazon for weeks, and almost anyone who owns a PS3 and HDTV will probably buy a few Blu-Ray discs to try it out.
And that economy of scale will make Blu-Ray cheaper, ubiquitous, and the obvious choice, regardless of where the first 100K players of the eventual hundred million that are sold went.
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
Your assumption that consumers who bought the PS3 console
weren't primarily buying it for the blu ray dvd functionality is
flawed, it would seem. You would do well to consider that at the
time of the PS3's launch the PS3's price made it the cheapest blu
ray player on the market. So while many gamers have bought
the PS3 for games, many other people chose the PS3 because it
was the best priced blu ray dvd player, and it just happened to
have a game console.
It's simple math. I support HD-DVD, but I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars on an HD-DVD player that I could be spending on movies if I already own a PS3 with a Blu-Ray player built in.
coming in and buying TV's that are looking for a next-gen player
to go with it. Until recently, all Blu-ray players cost significantly
more than a PS3 and because of that, we have sold tons of PS3's to
consumers who will never ever use them as a video game system.
Up until recently the PS3 was just the most affordable blu-ray
solution.
Blu HD is an expensive flop with opportunist promotion. My local game store has one bay of PS3 games at the back of the shop. With almost no games to play and those available at a premium price, no wonder PS3 owners have to buy films to use their expensive equipment. These are improving as Sony has now launched an HD HD relacement version of Blew ,sorry, Blu Fith Element.
HDVD is low on marketing but strong on picture, and friendly-even unrated Blu Pirates made one!
announced 2 weeks ago that they will be carrying Sony's new sub $300
Blu-ray player; along with continued support of the Playstation 3.
Second the adult film industry has not made any real decision either. In
fact there are only 2 movies available in high definition Debbie Does
Dallas, which is available in both high definition formats, and (just
announced) Caligula which will be available in Blu-ray only. One movie in
HD DVD and 2 on Blu-ray. How is that a mark in HD DVD's favor?
As far as anybody selling a HD DVD player for any price below $250,
much less your wishful thinking of $150. Toshibia, the only manufacture
of HD DVD format players has made no such announcement. In fact there
is no such announcement for a sub $200 player... no such announcement
for a sub $250 player... the cheapest player has a retail price of $300
bucks... double the price of your fantasy player of $150. I suspect that
the only $150 players you are likely to see in the next year will be the HD
DVD players in the close out bin.
The figures sold still back blu ray. This doesn't mean that $150 HD-dvd players wouldn't be very, very beneficial to all us consumers :D
and unfortunately the article doesn't even hint that out of the
starting gate HD-DVD was ahead of Blu-ray, so when I stumbled
onto this article I was a little taken a-back. It would have given
the reader a better sense of where we've come from as opposed
to drawing the conclusion that Blu-ray is winning because
Target is now carrying it in their stores.
Ok, having said that, it only makes sense from a purely
pragmatic standpoing that blu-ray is (IF it really is) out in front
with overall sales - why? Well, the article also completely failed
to tell us that blu-ray is simply a higher capacity, lower cost/
gigabyte technology. The final iteration of blu-ray will have
almost double the capacity of the final iteration of hddvd, so I
think the real, non-subjective point is, it's no contest, blu-ray is
more cost effective, by a factor of about 1.5, than hddvd, and
quality has got to be a non-issue cause they're both high
definition formats. So, what's all the save-hddvd rhetoric about?
If, (and I mean IF), the article is acurate about blu-ray being out
in front numbers-wise (come to think of it, does the article even
give us any numbers for blu-ray?), then I think that we have a
winner emerging, and thank goodness it's the one that makes
obvious sense, as opposed to the Microsoft-Toshiba alliance
[hd-dvd].
Oh, and about Wal-mart - they are clueless about consumer
electronics trends, always have been and always will be, and that
includes their online products and services. Just because they're
unloading all of there DVD titles and opting for HDDVD
exclusive sales does not mean anything at all - except that
Microsoft cut them a deal they could not refuse on players.
The consumer has spoken and MS does not have to absolutely
control every damn thing on the planet with a cpu in it - let it go
- we want blu-ray, and even Wal-mart is going to be switching
to blu-ray by this time next year.
- HD DVD is the cheaper technology; not Blu-Ray. If fact manufactures of the disks have stated they can make 3 times as many HD-DVD in the same space of time and the cost than Blu-Ray disks. AND Blu-Ray requires all new equipment.
- HD DVD is on par with Blu-Ray with size capacity and features. Differences are measures in a matter of mb. Hardly a plus or minus for either format.
Blockbuster stopped selling Blu-Ray in store due to a payoff by Sony. Many Blockbusters stores are still adding HD DVDs to their library due to demand.
Target only sold end-cap space to Sony. This is not a trend or support; they do this all the time. They still sell HD DVD disks and players.
Anyone that says either format is pulling ahead with the poor sales numbers on both sides is just a fan-boy.
The studios will follow the $$$. If there are more HD-DVD players they will produce in HD-DVD. If there are more Blu-ray players they will produce Blu-ray movies.
HD DVD is endorsed by Microsoft to full degree (member of
commitee too).
Currently Microsoft doesn't even have a working DRM (pay
video) solution for Macintosh. Their "creature", Windows Media
Player is a security and stability risk.
Blu Ray got Sony behind it and Sony is a complete empire on
Video (including HD) business. They also have huge expertise
on video/audio not to forget they PRODUCE them.
HD DVD people made the worst mistake by letting Wintel (MS
and Intel) wonder around them. They completely lost the
industry trust.
Blu Ray=Sony, Apple
HD DVD=Toshiba, Microsoft
Which one you would pick? It is so clear.
Really which ever format wins out, MAC will be supported. Hell they both may just fail. The Big Mistake is all the suckers buying Beta Blu-Ray players because Blu-Ray still to this date hasn't been finalized, and won't be until October of 2007. To finish getting features that HD DVD already has and has had since day 1. But I'm glad your such a SONY/MAC fanboy. Doesn't matter to you that Sony lets you pay for Infested DRM CD's for example.
mistake.
Bandwidth is big deal for pirates and they will go for whatever
smallest size. Blu Ray can hold 50 GB of data along with actual
JAVA programs so the pirate will opt in for 25GB old fashion
WMV infested HD DVD.
BluRay uses Mpeg 4 H264 format which is NOT owned by any
company exclusively. Check what format your HD DVDs use on
Xbox. Wmedia.
Wmedia monopoly plans have FAILED years ago with Apple
choosing mpeg standards and sticking with them. Also EU
monopoly decision added more to it.
Now, just because MS includes their failing supported format
HD DVD on Xbox with huge loss, it doesn't make it a "good" or
"open" format.
HD DVD is 60 GB.
When people chose VHS over Betamax, it was a time when computer GUIs were still in their infancy. They wanted to watch movies in a cheaper way.
Now people see the difference between Windows Media and MPEG4, which is readily apparent, even in small clips on a computer monitor. I am growing used to watch clips on youtube and democracy player. I would choose Blu-Ray, despite the price difference; I would have the additional satisfaction of not opting for the Toshiba-Microsoft way.
It is interesting to notice that nowadays a Microsoft endorsement has a negative connotation. Common wisdom is still alive.
Better get your facts right and stop drinking the SONY koolaid! Oh also, all them stand Alone Blu-Ray players, are basically JUNK! Anyone buying one is just a BETA tester. Why? Well because of the JAVA support. Blu-Ray hasn't actually been finalized YET, not until October 2007 unless things get delayed. The new features that will be added(Which by the way HD DVD already supports since day 1) will not work in the old players. Which means the movies with the extra content won't play. The Extra content won't play, won't work. Time to buy a NEW Blu-Ray player. Even when it's finalized, a Ethernet port is still a option, so if you buy a player without one, you won't be able to download extra content like you already can with HD DVD, like with the new Movie 300 on HD DVD, that you can't do on the Blu-Ray version along with the other missing features. This is also why movies like Batman Begins and The Matrix haven't been released on Blu-Ray YET. They will be, but not until Blu-Ray has been finalized and the new players start to get released. Really the ONLY Blu-Ray player that should be upgradeable is the PS3. It's far more flexible then a stand alone player.
Hey, I'm sure glad you have a problem with the so called WMV infested HD DVD or as we say VC-1 which has been getting far, far better Reviews in video Quality then the Mpeg2 that most early Blu-Ray movies had been using. The newer movie releases have been using Mpeg4 or VC-1, so I guess you better not buy any of them Blu-Ray movies using VC-1, it's infested after all. Unlike all them Infested CD's Sony Releases all in the name of DRM. Which is also plus for you I guess. The double layer of DRM that Blu-Ray supports but hasn't used YET called BD+. Want to rip your Blu-Ray movies you paid for to your Home Network like quite a few people do? Your going to be out of luck. Sony being the huge Movie House owning company that they are can't wait to get people off of DVD's and onto Blu-Ray!!! Have fun with Blu-Ray, but I'll NEVER own a single disc, I'd rather keep using DVD's.
In a different Blu-ray/HD-DVD article post on cnet (http://news.com.com/2300-1041_3-6199134-1.html?tag=newsmap) HD-DVD players are listed at $230-800 while Blu-ray players are listed at $470-1000. The reality of a 50% lower price does support the assertion that "HD DVD had an advantage...at first". In fact the price advantageis the most likely explaination for the significant advatage in dedicated player sales that HD-DVD continues to hold.
Some rudimentery research prior to writing and publishing the article would have been nice.
Keep on fighting you two. I love it.
JD
Fortunately, the big ones don't always win.
But putting that aside, How come there is just as many HD DVD movies as Blu-Ray, in fact I think it just recently leaped ahead of Blu-Ray in the number of Movies Released so far. So even with all that Studio support, it's just not helping any. There are far more stand alone HD DVD players then Blu-Ray, that's a FACT!!! The Blu-Ray players gets all it's numbers from the PS3. When someone buys a HD DVD player either a stand alone or a drive for the 360, you know it's to watch HD DVD movies on! When someone buys a PS3, is it to play games or watch Blu-Ray movies? How many of them PS3 users even have a HDTV? After all a Blu-Ray movie is worthless on a SDTV. When your buying a HD DVD player, you know that person has a HDTV!!! You also know that HD DVD user plans to buy HD DVD Movies to go with it. Again, not so with a PS3 although right now with the lack of games, I'm sure more Blu-Ray movies are being bought, but I don't think that will last once some good AAA games get released for people to actually play.
TO me there's far better released movies on the HD DVD side then Blu-Ray also.
If it was used only for watching movies, HD DVD may have had a chance, but given the fact that these same disks are also used to store data on computers, I just don't see how it can survive.
- 2 for 1 deal
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by jmustangs
July 27, 2007 10:18 AM PDT
- A big reason for my ps3 purchase was the blu ray. I could have bought an xbox with the hd dvd player but with the limitations of hd dvd(lack of storage on the disk as opposed to the blu ray disk), and more support for blu ray I didn't have to think twice.
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