Why America needs foreign students
Here's one more reason to give green cards to foreign graduate students.
They are the only ones in school.
U.S. citizens outnumber foreign nationals in undergraduate electrical engineering programs in U.S. universities by a wide margin, according to a report form the Engineering Workforce Commission of the American Association of Engineering Societies.
U.S. kids accounted for 89 percent of the undergrads in these programs in 2006.
But 51 percent of the students in masters programs in EE in U.S. universities were foreign nationals last year. Only 49 percent come from the states.
In PhD programs, foreign nationals made up 71 percent of the students in 2006.
On one level, you could argue that foreign nationals are taking spots that otherwise could have gone to U.S. citizens. But the drop off from undergrad indicates that 1) U.S. students aren't interested in graduate school or 2) aren't doing as well and can't get in. Either way, if the foreign nationals can get permanent residence, there's a better chance they might stay here after graduation.
Tech lobbying groups are trying to make it easier for foreign nationals to get visas.
PhD students almost always have some sort of funding from the University. Foreign Graduate students either have university funding, cough up the the money themselves and in very very few cases are sponsored by some entity outside the US.
Something needs to change here.
Many students from middle-class families risk it (financially) to come to US on some kind of loan and most of them succeed in getting their Masters/PhD and also clearing their student loans eventually.
But I guess the difference lies in Undergraduate education. Its hard to imagine for American students that many Indian students who have come for Masters/PhD (at least until 2004 cuz that includes myself) have spent less than $3,000 (maybe $4,000, depending on how hard they partied) to earn their 4 year Bachelor Degree in Electrical Engg. or Computer Science, including all kinds of expenses you can imagine, even maintaining a couple of girl friends at the same time. Education is that cheap there, not to mention the respect in society for Engineering and Medical professions.
And I guess the American undergraduate student would end up with student loans worth tens of thousands of dollars and by the time of graduation even if he wants to he wouldn't have the heart to add up on the already existing loan.
Then the tech companies come into picture. They would prefer a Masters guy (who would most likely be a foreign guy) over a guy with Bachelors (most likely an American) because of higher qualification and the icing on the cake - the foreign student is very much likely to be more than happy with the (less)compensation that the company would pay him and the standard of living he would enjoy after coming from a developing country.
But I wonder how many American students drop out or graduate and not continue with their Masters/PhD because of tuition fee problems? Is that really the problem or is it something else?
placed more value on business majors and lawyers than scientists
and engineers. We won't even get into the attention lavished on
sports and entertainment, or Paris Hilton.
graduate programs could be that Universities are accepting ?Out
of State, Out of Country? tuition students to increase their profits
margins and/or that U.S. Citizens mostly have to pay their
tuitions while many countries pay their citizens to go to
Universities.
I wouldn?t only look at the number of students enrolled, but the
number of students not accepted to these programs. Hopefully,
they are not being rejected just because they are U.S. citizens or
in-state students.
2. Most foreign students with an "undergraduate" degree enter U.S. graduate schools with what we in the U.S. would call a non-thesis Masters. So American grad students are at an academic disadvantage from day one.
3. Many foreign students are supported during their first year on a teaching assistantship, but have such poor English skills that they cannot do any teaching. So they are given relatively easy grading tasks, while their (time consuming) in-class teaching load gets taken over by those who can speak good English -- the American graduate students. (By the way, do you think experienced TAs are appreciated by the universities? Well, they are not. If TAs don't find an RA after the first year or two, they are treated more and more badly until they get the hint.)
But a few of us had specific interests or wanted specific jobs, and went for graduate degrees.
Cost wasn't an option: like most Master's students at the University, I didn't pay for my graduate eduaction.
It's just that the business world view of graduate education differs a lot from the student view. Then again, that was back in 1998... hey, when did I become old? :)
an exclusive cult can fester. Even the appearance of differential
solicitude can open wounds among undereducated illiterates.
Open internet graduate enrollments designed to include rather
than exclude all students of all nationalities, irrespective of their
current immigration or financial status that is the policity which
will benefit mankind more positively. Does America benefit by
powerful economic opponents, like the AMA, erecting artificial
barriers to entry? People wishing to study in graduate school in
any subject should be given fair tests, consistently administered,
shouldn't be subjected to inconsistent application deadlines or
special subject-only application processing.
We need MORE education, not less. We need MORE physicians,
engineers, educators, & scientists, not fewer.
Americans studying in America and making good grades should
be granted full scholarships to the accredited college or
university of their choice to continue their studies with full
funding for modest tuition (state U equivalent), fees, books,
room and board.
their first pick at the fact that foreign student have it 'so easy'.
I'm not a foreign student in the US, I'm studying in the UK (still
foreign though) and the tuition fees are astronomical and no
student is given living stipend from the few partial scholarships
the universities give out. I have no idea how the US universities
work this out, but from my point of view, studying abroad is
always difficult financially, independently of what country you're
going.
And I''m also amused that nobody mentioned here that, maybe, I
don't know, it's also possible that there is actually a lot of talent
OUTSIDE of the US that the universities is interested in having
and that, well yeah: best person for the job. Maybe it is possible
that US students aren't stacking up... but, who am i to judge,
right?
In the UK it's very similar, in my department there's only one
student that is british (scottish i think), and the reason for that is
that students here don't want to research, it's too boring, too
time-consuming, and doesn't make money quickly. From most
of your responses, I'm guessing that this may also be an issue
over there, in addition to all the financial things you've talked
about.
1) All companies, regardless of size, must pay sufficient money into a national fund to provide a 1-year merit-based scholarship, either grad or undergrad, in the science/engineering/math field of their choice, for each H1B visa holder that they hire. Only U.S. citizens would be eligible for the "Technology Worker Crisis Scholarships." (You could even make these deferred-interest loans, which would be forgiven if the student obtains an advanced degree.)
2) Universities would not be allowed to offer federally-funded RAs to any foreign grad students until all U.S. citizen grad students in their program had full support (either RA or TA).
BTW, I'm long past my grad school days, so there is no self-interest involved here.
- Different scenerios
- by bwvla June 25, 2007 2:34 PM PDT
- 1) Most US citizens cannot afford traditional graduate school. The debt acquired is unbearable and most students must leave school after a BA to pay off debts. By the time school loans are paid they are well into careers or family lives making graduate school a difficult choice.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(18 Comments)2) Outside of MBA's US employers show no respect for graduate students. Many PHDs do not earn more income than those with BA's in many fields.
Poor foreign students once they have a US issued graduate increase their chances for a work visa or citizenship to a wealthy country. The payoff is worth any debt acquired as it can be a rags to riches situation.
Wealthy foreign students choose US schools for their excellent programs.
Bottom line US schools are a good deal for foreigners. For US Citizens they are not as good of a deal due to how the economics of being a US citizen already.