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May 6, 2009 4:00 AM PDT

Can a Palm Pre multitask better than an iPhone?

by Tom Krazit

Palm's comeback attempt rests squarely on the notion that it has found a better way to manage your complicated digital life.

Ever since its January coming-out party at the Consumer Electronics Show, Palm has generated buzz for the Pre unlike any other phone released since Apple's iPhone arrived in June 2007 (that includes impressive phones such as Research in Motion's BlackBerry Bold and HTC's G1 Android phone.) The two phones will be forever compared--not just because of their consumer-oriented styles and emphasis on gesture-based user interfaces, but because of the very real enmity between the proud team that worked on Apple's historic iPhone breakthrough and the ex-Apple executives and engineers attempting to rebuild Palm.

CNET News Poll

Palm Pre plans
Will you purchase the Palm Pre?

Yes, I want it.
No, I don't like it.
No thanks. I already have an iPhone.
It depends on the price.



View results

While the iPhone has set the standard for future smartphones, Palm's WebOS delivers two important improvements that the iPhone can't yet match: true multitasking between applications, and a subtle notifications system that doesn't interrupt your train of thought. It does that while unveiling its own stamp on the multitouch user interface that Apple introduced to the masses with the iPhone and finding room for a slide-out hardware keyboard favored by CrackBerry addicts.

There are several reasons why no one should expect the Pre to turn the smartphone world upside down just yet. Business users still love their BlackBerrys and RIM is aggressively courting the consumer. Apple has a killer brand, great audio and video player technology, and more than 35,000 applications inside an easy-to-use App Store that grows by the hour.

All the same, Palm has taken a few steps forward that developers and users should take seriously. Until we know how much it's going to cost, it's impossible to predict how many other smartphone users will see value in these improvements, but they (and the competition) will notice. The Pre is expected to arrive sometime within the next few weeks, although all Palm has said is that it will be out in the first half of 2009.

Let's examine the subject of multitasking first, which has been a major criticism of the iPhone almost ever since it was released.

Outside of a few core applications, such as the phone and iPod player, an iPhone user must completely exit out of one application in order to use another. For example, you can return to the home screen and select another iPhone application while staying connected on a phone call, but you can't move back and forth between two applications while allowing the first application to run in the background, making it harder to use applications like instant messaging or streaming radio.

Apple has said these limitations are necessary to prevent battery life from dropping off a cliff and to ensure application stability. That is perhaps part of the reason why Palm has chosen a different development model.

WebOS applications will be created with standard Web development tools such as CSS, JavaScript, and HTML that run on a version of the Webkit engine. This doesn't mean they are "Web applications," which require a connection to the Internet to work. It does, however, mean they are (in general) more lightweight and less-resource intensive than iPhone applications, which are developed using the Objective-C programming language.

Palm's "cards" view for switching between applications in WebOS.

(Credit: Palm)

That may limit the performance of WebOS applications. Don't expect the sophisticated gaming community, for example, to embrace the Pre. But Palm's approach means it will be very easy for anyone who has developed a Web application to get up and running on Pre development, which could help expand the number of applications in the early days of the device if the smartphone world likes what they see.

Other mobile operating systems--notably Android and Windows Mobile--allow multitasking, but Palm has developed an elegant way of switching between "cards," something vaguely akin to a combination of Windows' Alt-Tab switching and Mac OS' Expose, or switching between tabs on a Web browser. New applications can be launched using the "Launcher" software button on the bottom of the home screen, and users navigate between different applications by flicking finger left or right.

It remains to be seen how many open WebOS applications it will take to crash the Pre. (Palm product managers at CTIA 2009 refused to speculate, but said it would be very hard to overload the phone.) But Palm's implementation of multitasking is slick, as is its method for delivering notifications.

Notifications are the lifeblood of the mobile computer: if I'm carrying an always-on, always-connected computer, then I want to know right away when something has happened. With the release of iPhone OS 3.0, Apple plans to expand its notifications service to third-party applications, whereas right now it only works for core applications such as incoming phone calls, text messages, and calendar appointments.

If you want to ignore an incoming message, it will disappear into a thin notification bar that's present almost everywhere you go in WebOS.

(Credit: Palm)

But Apple's system for notifications uses a pop-up window that interrupts you in the middle of a task, pauses the application, and forces you to make a choice (close, view) before proceeding. Palm's notification bar is much less obtrusive.

When a Pre user receives an e-mail or text message, that alert will pop up on the lower part of the Pre's screen as a horizontal bar. But the alert won't interrupt the application, and if the user chooses simply to ignore that alert, it will soon retreat to the lower edge of the screen to be accessed later when the task at hand is completed. That alert will always be at the bottom of the Pre's screen no matter what application or view you've selected, along with some brief information such as the sender or subject line.

Apple's approach lets you dismiss the alert and continue what you were doing but forces you to remember that you received notifications from a specific application, such as the ESPN Alerts application demonstrated at the iPhone 3.0 event. A number outlining how many alerts you've received will appear over the icon for that application--just as you can see how many e-mail messages await you--but if you're in a different sector of the home screen, you won't necessarily see the alerts for that particular application.

Some may dismiss these differences as simply user preferences. But multitasking and notifications are among the most important reasons to own a mobile computer, and few companies have managed to come up with something that advances the game along those lines since the iPhone OS made its debut. Palm has.

Tom Krazit writes about the ever-expanding world of Internet search, including Google, Yahoo, online advertising, and portals, as well as the evolution of mobile computing. He has written about traditional PC companies, chip manufacturers, and mobile computers, spending the last three years covering Apple. E-mail Tom.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (104 Comments)
by kool_skatkat May 6, 2009 4:24 AM PDT
Palm Pre is really there to keep people on Sprint. I don't see how they could really beat the iPhone, especially since the iPhone is continuously evolving. The real challenges will be the hardware.

Will Palm make enough advancement with the help of its partners to have great processing power, graphics, battery life? A good mix of hardware and good software will be keep to its success. If Apple's acquisition of PA Semi and key brains from other companies brings forth expected results, it might be very hard for Palm to beat Apple.

How much will Palm be able to also control the hardware will be a determining factor.
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust May 6, 2009 4:49 AM PDT
yes battery Life is very Important
both the G1 and the iPhone already have horrid battery lives !
I wonder how the pre will fare with multi-tasking etc. !
by jypeterson May 6, 2009 12:22 PM PDT
Don't forget battery life on the WinMo phones as well...

My iPhone doesn't do too bad. I don't have to have wireless on all of the time, nor do I keep location services on. Just like any other mobile device, its up to the user. I don't have to charge my iPhone up but once every two to three days -- of course, I'm also not playing Assasin's Creed or any other CPU intensive application that gobbles up the battery.
by wtgig May 19, 2009 5:53 PM PDT
why the comparison to the iphone??? isnt the iphones menu just a beautified version of the now classic palm os menu with a slide to unlock when it is awoken???
by seven7dust May 6, 2009 4:38 AM PDT
Obviously it will
the cards interface is the only real killer feature after-all
you cant really compare notifications to true multi-tasking

also Notifications is a weak point of the iPhone
the implementation is very Old school and obtrusive IMO
right now Android seems to have the best notification system in my book
and palms system seems nice too !

but having said all this
It's funny that the iPhone has the largest app store and apps
So if added Multi-tasking/Notifications
will make a bigger impact on the iPhone than the Pre
because of all the apps, cause I don't really see palm store becoming as big
Reply to this comment
by samalander May 7, 2009 2:00 PM PDT
Not sure that notifications on the iPhone (and iPod Touch) are that "intrusive", nor such a weak point. Of course it is evolving and OS 3 will be very interesting in this regard. At the moment I only get "interrupted" by iCal notifications where I have set a timer to notify with warning of, for example, ten minutes to go before a meeting. Guess what? I would expect to have that ten-minute warning be "intrusive" so that I have to pause what I am doing and acknowledge it, so that I do in fact get the warning precisely at the ten-minute mark.

The rest of my notifications get very obvious, but unintrusive, numbers attached to the app icons. I put my important apps that I expect to see updates from on my first couple of pages. Not a problem. Much rather that than lose some of the screen real-estate in another app that has been designed to make use of the whole screen. That Apple "can't" offer multi-tasking has yet to be seen -- the most honest answer is that they have yet to implement it for third-party software for unknown reasons to do with security and user-experience.

As Apple discussed at MW09, notification infrastructure for third party developers has been slow to roll out completely. This is because the demand was great. ESPN demoed their OS 3 app that will send multiple notifications daily to their over half a million subscribers. ATT are not providing this infrastructure. Apple is building out the whole notification server structure.

Who will do it for Palm? Good luck to them with that. Will Sprint or an other carrier take on board a special service to make Pre's potential all that it can be? For a price maybe. Of course, BB has a special system and this is what they are known for -- their push/notification server system they sell to corporate customers. Apple's system is be wide open to all developers and consumers. Don't count it out until you see it! Of course, "computer guys are not just going to walk into the phone market and make it" (as famously said by pres of Palm). Well, they have, and they aren't done yet.

On the contrary, all this talk about this and that iPhone-Killer-feature of Pre is a little, I think, PREmature. Their were real, high profile developers and companies at MW09 showing new apps, and indeed revolutionary new uses, for a "smart phone" (insulin level analyser, etc.). I keep hearing how maybe one or two people actually got in the small room with a PRE and saw a real one up close. The rest of us have seen a few screen shots and mocked up, animated web videos that I could produce in Keynote, and that may or may not be a real PRE actually in use as far as anyone really knows. The card feature of PRE looks like the page-switch in iPhone Safari (again, already in use by 40 million people on their iPhones, and not just, for all we know, an animation on a web video). Do any developers out there actually have something tangible to go on? iPhone developers at least had the SDKs AND a simulation program of the iPhone for testing their apps, six months before the iPhone came out -- and during that time real people reported real contact with the prototypes, prototypes were seen, and websites reported hits by the prototype. I just don't understand why, if the PRE is supposed to be out in a couple of months, there is nothing really tangible about the phone itself, or its OS. This close to iPhone debut, people knew where, when and for how much they could get their hands on one.

All this debate is about something very real against something not so real yet. Many developers and companies have gone on record saying they are dropping all development on other platforms, the iPhone OS is where it is at. Thousands of new SDKs were actually delivered into their hands in January to completely open up unique functionality, including connecting to and controlling all sorts of other devices. If developers for the PRE get a head start because they can use their web and Java code, then more power to them. And, oh, Palm doesn't put developers in "prison" -- great, the developers get to worry about hosting, marketing and maintaining payment gateways for their own apps. Other than that kind of statement, there seems to be little in the way of detail about why developers with any thought of expanding their repertoire from web apps and java, should care about the Apple platform. But others sure seem to think there is a real shift afoot, from the limited outlook of recent years where all the players could just rehash the technology that was already out there, put a few new icons on it, and hope the carriers didn't cripple them too much.

I hope there really is something to all this PRE talk. Other sites I have read think it is just take-over bait for Palm to talk itself up so MS or someone will come along and take them out of their misery.
by RodRude May 6, 2009 4:50 AM PDT
I like the article, but I wish they would have included the huge impact that synergy has with the Palm Pre. I think that is a huge feat by palm, and the fact that things will be automatically updated if someone changed their phone number, for example on any of their accounts.
Reply to this comment
by sam99999999 May 7, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
Good point. I would also like to hear from Palm how existing Palm Desktop databases (Address Book, To Do, Calendar, Memo Pad, etc.) will migrate to the Pre. That has yet to be covered in any of their press announcements.

Many of Palm's oldest customers still access data from these legacy formats. It would be a bonehead move for Palm to orphan their most loyal customer base.
by jamslug May 6, 2009 4:52 AM PDT
Great article, without a doubt multitasking and notifications are key elements in order to choice an "embedded on yourself" computer.
Reply to this comment
by dotKev May 6, 2009 5:01 AM PDT
Sorry but multitasking doesn't always mean poor battery life. I have a Nokia E71 with full multitasking and a battery life to over 2 days (3g always on, bluetooth on etc). I think Apple's excuse for limiting multitasking is lame.

As for the Pre - Well done Palm. From what I've seen it looks great and shows some really good out of the box thinking. Looking forward to trying one out.
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust May 6, 2009 5:51 AM PDT
yes but this topic is about modern O.ses with desktop class apps
Nokias and blackberries have had great batterylife for years
but they don't really cant be compared to the iPhone and other multi-touch phones !
by Lethality May 6, 2009 12:26 PM PDT
Hmm, I'd wager we wouldn't even see the Pre, or the Bold, if Apple hadn't pushed so hard on the iPhone... Face it, Apple gave the smart phone market a wakeup call and we are all benefitting from it.
by curtiskelowna May 9, 2009 3:41 PM PDT
Uh yes they can be compared..... first of all "desktop quality" is a huge overstatement. there is extremely little in common with iphone apps and desktop apps. Second of all, did you even read the article? Other multitasking phones cant run as graphically intensive apps because they actually have an underlying OS WORKING all the time. all the iphone has to do is open up a new app, destroy every other process, and devote 90% of its resourses to that single app. The iphone is definately not a SMART phone. its flashy, its fast and easy but it can only comprehend simple, one at a time inputs. Kinda reminds me of paris hilton......
by aMUSICsite May 6, 2009 5:03 AM PDT
I love the fact that the poll only has the options yes, no, have an iPhone or depends on the price.

What about, depends on how well it works, depends on the apps, not I have a phone other than the iPhone that I'm happy with?
Reply to this comment
by skrubol May 7, 2009 5:56 AM PDT
Agreed. Right now I'm looking forward to comparing the Pre to the Touch Pro 2 (totally different devices, I know.) If the functionality and usability of the Pre blows me away, the beautiful and gigantic screen of the TP2 won't be able to keep me in the WM camp. On the flip side, if WM 6.5 ends up with some good improvements (like a better notification system,) I may stick with a WM device.
by curtiskelowna May 9, 2009 3:46 PM PDT
lol sory skrubol. unless windows mobile is planning on making a drastic change this far into the development, you wont be seeing your new notification system. I have windows mobile 6.5 on my touch and all that is new is a poorly planned start menu, kinetic scrolling, and a new homescreen. dont put ur hope in windows 6.5. I would say hold out for WM7 but then again WM hasnt given me much reason to say itll be DRASTICALLY improved
by Pishkado May 6, 2009 5:09 AM PDT
Technical merit (beyond a certain minimum level of basic acceptability) seldom has much to do with marketplace acceptance of any technology. Examples abound.
Reply to this comment
by rwm72 May 6, 2009 5:33 AM PDT
Agreed. Palm and their ex-Apple engineers and execs appear to have come up with a phone that cleverly overcomes a number of the iphones shortcomings, while also being slick in both design and interface as well as user friendly, all iphone strengths. However, the iphone has really captured the imagination of the consumer, and the Blackberry is entrenched in the enterprise world.
So despite a high degree of technical merit, perhaps more than both iphones and Blackberries, it really has to be accepted as a game changer to make the impact it desires. I applaud the approach of the Pre and Palm, but doubt they will reap the rewards of their efforts. I think it will be fighting for a bronze medal place at best, despite showing gold medal form in a number of areas.
by Renegade Knight May 6, 2009 7:16 AM PDT
Fair point. The apple interface is a thing of beauty. However palm has to meet that head on, and deliver on the rest that apples falls short on in a way that makes it painful for the everage Joe to stick with an iPhone once they see how their friends use their Palms. Palm has the known how to get the job done, but they need something more to hit the next level.
by qst4 May 6, 2009 8:16 AM PDT
I don't think palm needs to take any of Apples happy consumers. And bronze is all right if it generates enough revenue for the company to survive and continue developing WebOS. I think its a little dramatic and simplistic to think the only consumers who need to be appeased are Apple or RIM consumers, granted they have a large portion of current market. There are still many people who will be transitioning to smartphones, many winmo and symbian users, many old Palm users who will be interested in the Pre. I don't think the fight is necessarily against the current big two, Palm just needs to survive and I think there are enough potential consumers for them to do that if they launch well.
by sneakytodd May 6, 2009 5:09 AM PDT
Why all the focus on the PRE vs. iPhone? The Blackberry has good implementations of both "task switching" AND notifications.

Task Switching:
----------------------
Many blackberry users put the task switcher launcher on the left convenience key. Then, with the cilck of a button you can select between open applications alt-tab style. While not as impressive as the PRE's approach, it is worlds beyond the iPhone approach.

Notifications:
-------------------
This is something that the blackberry has really nailed solid, and is the reason for the "crack" in crackberry. It all comes down to the blinking red light and or sounds + vibration. Whenever a notification arrives, my blackberry vibrates in my pocket without annoying the people around me. If I pull it out of a holster, immediately it shows me the message that just arrived. If I'm in the middle of using an application, the red light indicator starts flashing, at which point I just hit the "hang-up" button, and from the message in box can see a summary of all the notifications I have listed on the header bar, and then a stream of all the notifications from all applications in one spot (email, SMS, facebook, etc...). It's simple and elegant, and works great especially if I get 300 messages a day because I can quickly see a summary of all the activity. The pre offers that neat little message bar, but practically speaking offers very little benefit over the blackberry approach on this.
Reply to this comment
by jaxstephens May 6, 2009 2:00 PM PDT
Why all the focus on the Pre vs. iPhone? Because BB is BBoring. :-)
by alex-cnet May 6, 2009 5:22 PM PDT
I agree, sneakytodd. Blackberrys have a great implimentation of both background applications and notifications. And it's not like the applications available are "lightweight." On most days I can use my Blackberry to fully replace my PC.

Also, if you have newer OS builds on your Blackberry, holding down the Menu button will bring up the task switcher. It has been like this on the Storm since release and my 8900 now has that. This leaves the convenience keys for something else (Intelliberry comes to mind - universal search app).
by skrubol May 7, 2009 6:02 AM PDT
Because I don't want to pay an additional $30/month for a blackberry. Figuring I keep a phone for 2 years on average, that's an extra $720 for the BB.
by curtiskelowna May 9, 2009 3:56 PM PDT
i think its dumb there wasnt a comparison to the android OS. It too uses a bar on the screen to give notifications but it is alot better than WM, iphone, and the pre interface. Say for instance your are writing a text message and you get an email. The sender and subject will pop up at the top of the screen without interfering with ur message. You then can slide the top bar down as if it were a curtain and recieve more information on emails, tasks, and reminders you may have. you then can slide the curtain back up and resume ur message.
by dbloyd May 6, 2009 5:20 AM PDT
It doesn't matter now for me. My iPhone apps won't move over to that phone plus I love my iPhone.
Reply to this comment
by curtiskelowna May 9, 2009 3:57 PM PDT
why do people like you even comment....
by gdtryer May 6, 2009 5:24 AM PDT
Great article but no mention of the legacy Palm OS and the thousands upon thousands of application available for Palm OS. I read else where that the Pre will be able to multitask the legacy apps as well as the cards interface.

This is great, when can I buy one.
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust May 6, 2009 5:47 AM PDT
legacy apps are a waste of time
they emulate virtual buttons and old UI on a multi-touch screen
can you tell me how thats useful ?
by troyrader May 6, 2009 6:34 AM PDT
@7dust, your opinion of the old UI is not the point and your snap judgement is equally pointless. People who own an older Palm device and have been using certain apps, perhaps for many years, will have the ability to get a slick new, modern device, and keep their "app investment". Day one, there are thousands, maybe 10's of thousands, of app available. Typically very affordable. To start from scratch on apps, could have been a game changer. I am a long time user of the Palm OS (since 1998 or so) and was done with Palm. I'm putting up with my last PalmOS device, the Treo 700p, until the next iPhone comes out. I fully intended to get the new iPhone. However, Palm has caught my attention. I assumed they were "done". Clearly, they are not. We still have to see if the Pre performs well, if it is buggy, if call quality is good, etc, etc. But I've moved from 100% certain to get an iPhone, to waiting to see the Pre outcome, then make a purchase decision. The iPhone is so slick, I was willing to accept the pathetic att service, but desired to stay on Sprint's awesome cell data network. Also, we have 3 ipod touches in the house, and so I have used the keyboard. It's okay, but I can go pretty fast on my 700p keyboard. The Pre keyboard seems more likely to let me type as fast as I do now, where the iphone really won't. Don't get me wrong. I think the iPhone is awesome. But the Pre might very well be awesome x 2. Keep my old apps, on Sprint, real keyboard, great form factor, multitasking, notification improvements, video, etc, etc. I will certainly be reading and sifting thru reviews of and rants about the new iPhone and the Pre in June and July, and buy in August.
by Renegade Knight May 6, 2009 7:17 AM PDT
True. One reason I still use Windows Mobile. I have somekey applications that use. I can jump to Palm IF the support for the app is there.
by skrubol May 7, 2009 6:03 AM PDT
Also there are some legacy, exclusive apps (medical, etc,) that tie people to Palm.
by AppleSuxLeo May 6, 2009 5:29 AM PDT
The iPhony does'nt multitask and and one reason why is that it's OS is a bloated port of a home computer OS with a too large memory footprint , while the Pre's WEB OS is a new OS based on a light version of Linux.

Yes...the kernel of Web OS IS Linux !

And before some head in the sand iPhone user poo-poo's the Pre , let me assure you there will be apps that are not just web-based apps. Remember , this is Linux and Linux can do/be anything they want it to be...without all the Jobsian walled-garden limitations of Apple products.

And unlike Apple's walled garden app store (prison) , apps for the Pre will be sold from many vendors.

Is'`t choice nice ? This isn't Communist Red North Korea after all.

[CNET editors' note: Prohibited content deleted.]
Reply to this comment
by kelmon May 6, 2009 6:15 AM PDT
"The iPhony does`nt multitask"

Citation, please.
by Renegade Knight May 6, 2009 7:19 AM PDT
@kelmon

The touch doesn't multi task. Citation. I use one of the things. Oh, wait, you can listen to music and do something else at the same time. There you go. Limited multitasking.

@AppleSuxLeo
OS X is a rehash of Unix. Unix is the root of Linux. Apparetnly they are all on the right track.
by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:32 AM PDT
@kelmon: My iPhone 3G doesn't multi-task, so... is that citation enough? Aside from the very few applications mentioned (ipod and the incoming phone interface), there's absolutely no multitasking. Period.

@AppleSuxLeo: While I agree with you on many points, your attitude towards the product doesn't really help your point. I have huge qualms with my iPhone and I'm somewhat jealous of the Storm. I'm also looking really forward to the Pre. I'm extremely disappointed with AT&T's service, though I have no clue if Sprint would be any better, however I know Verizon would be. My iPhone has apps that crash all the time, calls fail more often than my previous phone (still at&t). However, even with these pitfalls, I'm still overall impressed with the phone. I don't think its the greatest phone ever, but its definitely not terrible. You're allowed to not like the iPhone and still think its a decent phone. I don't own any other Apple products other than my iPhone. I use Windows and while I know it has some issues, its not as bad as Apple users think, but Apple isn't as bad as anti-Apple people think.

Why can't people just not be so adamantly against one OS or another, whether it be on a phone, desktop, etc.
by kelmon May 7, 2009 2:05 AM PDT
And here's the thing - the iPhone does multi-task. It's running the Mac OS which is a fully certified UNIX OS and therefore is multi-user, multi-tasking and multi-threaded. What everyone means when they say "The iPhone doesn't multi-task" is that "Apple doesn't permit 3rd party applications to in the background", which is something completely different, although the impact on the end-user is largely the same. However, as I argue in another comment, I do not really see the point of allowing applications to run in the background on a device with a screen that is only capable of showing a single application at a time. There are certainly cases when it would be useful but they are very few in number.
by Qtechbg May 6, 2009 5:38 AM PDT
Since when does Javascript run better than Objective C??? Let me see a 3D game written entirely on JS (that does not require cloud computing to run) and then I'll believe there is a competition. Or by apps the author means popups with several input/check boxes?
Reply to this comment
by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:33 AM PDT
::sigh:: Did you even read the article? The author addresses that directly. Almost immediately after he says it runs better. Did you just stop after that sentence?
by avitous May 6, 2009 7:48 AM PDT
It remains to be seen what the developer SDK will expose. The WebOS features emphasizing JS, CSS et al are there to get stuff up and running quickly (there are many more web developers who know Javascript than, say, Objective C) but since it *is* a Linux kernel backend presumably one can develop native applications as well. Hopefully that won't be locked out or made difficult. And Javascript frontends can indeed be lightweight in terms of task switching.
by May 7, 2009 6:45 AM PDT
I agree. Even simple Palm Pre app with ordinary input and check boxes will use much more CPU power than similar app on iPhone. That's should be obvious that displaying compiled Cocoa forms is much less CPU intensive than rendering HTML/CSS and interpreting JS.
by SpeekEazy May 6, 2009 6:04 AM PDT
Mannnnn i am soooo tired on waiting on this phone. im done im getting another phone and will consider the pre next year.
Reply to this comment
by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:35 AM PDT
Just don't get an iPhone, cause that would also be a wasted purchase as a new one is almost guaranteed to come out at around the same time. If you want a Pre, make sure your phone purchase will be on Sprint, otherwise you'll be stuck two years, not one year.
by bobincincy May 6, 2009 6:20 AM PDT
One thing to remember folks is that the notifications are cool, except you can't get email or surf the web while on a phone call with Sprint! You cannot do simultaneous voice and data on their network. With AT&T's you can,but not on Sprint. Major difference that's not pointed out in this article between the iPhone and Pre.
Reply to this comment
by datum226 May 6, 2009 6:34 AM PDT
you absolutely can. I use tethering a lot. Talking and surfing can be done.
by bobincincy May 6, 2009 7:12 AM PDT
that's different than trying to do that on the phone. Sprint's network (as is Verizon's) works on CDMA which does NOT allow for simultaneous voice and data usage on the phone. That's because their voice and data networks use the same frequencies. AT&T's works off both upper an lower for both voice and 3G which allows for simultaneous use. However, on their 2G phones (those with Edge data, like the Curve) you can't do that. You can be on the phone, but you can't send/receive emails or surf the web (you can still get sms messages though).
by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:37 AM PDT
I've owned an iPhone 3G since August and I've *never* had to check my email or surf the web while talking on the phone. Thats most likely a situation that won't upset consumers. Maybe business users, but definitely not your average consumer. Hell, I only found out a few days ago I could actually use the rest of the phone while still on a phone call. I just never had a desire or need to even try. I'm not technologically impaired or anything, just never thought of it.
by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:38 AM PDT
Also, tethering and talking at the same time *is* the same as using data and talking at the same time, so it still does seem to invalidate your point.
by skrubol May 7, 2009 6:09 AM PDT
CDMA does allow for simultaneous voice and data (EVDO Rev.A,) The implementation of the network and on most devices don't allow it though.
datum226: You tether and talk on Sprint? I was not aware that this was possible.
by kelmon May 6, 2009 6:23 AM PDT
The comments about the differences between Apple and Palm's take on notifications are very true - Palm definitely looks like they have a better implementation of the concept.

However, I really don't understand the fuss about multi-tasking. There are very few scenarios where multi-tasking, as it is understood on a desktop, makes sense because you can only use a single application at one time on such a small screen. Given this there is little difference between switching between running applications and starting/stopping applications that effectively retain their state. At the moment I can only think of applications that play audio or do VoIP as really needing the ability to run in the background, and for VoIP applications that is only so that the user can make use of other applications during a call much like they can with the iPhone's own call application. Personally, I don't have much use for true background applications so not allowing them really has no impact and I appreciate not having to manually manage running applications as I did with my old Windows Mobile PDA. You own mileage, however, may vary...
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by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:41 AM PDT
The two examples given are actually great examples. Messenger apps (which will have a poor-mans multi-tasking in iPhone 3.0), radio apps (great if you don't want to do *anything* on your phone while listening) or even simply wanting to check your email in the middle of doing something. There are plenty of reasons you'd want to switch tasks on a mobile phone. Some apps that use the gps to record your path for exercise purposes cannot be closed. Any app that does anything actively is hindered by not being able to send it to the background when you wanna check your mail for just a couple seconds without having to shutdown the app and starting all over again.

Honestly, I'm surprised you'd even have to ask why multitasking would be useful. Either you're not using a smartphone or you're not using one extensively.
by pu2006 May 6, 2009 8:45 AM PDT
I've got to agree with kelmon. Having background apps being able to stream audio is about the only thing I've tried to do that I couldn't due to the background app restrictions. Which, on a tangent here, I think is an important note - the iPhone hardware is not restricting background apps, Apple is. Jailbroken iPhones can and do run apps in the background, so you're welcome to do so if you choose to leave the Apple support path.

But I don't need a GPS to track how far I've run. I don't use VOIP (it's an iPhone I use, not an iPod touch.) And the upcoming push notification service seems just fine for my IM and social networking needs.

On the other hand, it does seem kind of silly to force developers to not use background apps instead of simply recommending against it or letting the free market decide which way is better. The iPhone can perform some seriously processor intensive operations that, if running in the background, would force the device to a crawl and I think most users would find that unacceptable. Such apps would then theoretically be shunned by users. I guess Apple just doesn't want to deal with supporting such situations. I wouldn't be surprised if when the hardware platforms become more powerful and more power efficient that background apps will be allowed on the iPhone.
by monkeyfun14 May 6, 2009 9:38 AM PDT
"Apple is. Jailbroken iPhones can and do run apps in the background, so you're welcome to do so if you choose to leave the Apple support path"

But why should the consumer have to hack his phone OS to have such a basic feature? I mean seriously joe six pack doesn't want to or doesn't know how to. Not every consumer is a geek we need to remember that.
by kelmon May 7, 2009 2:15 AM PDT
@pjhenry1216

I really don't think that there is any need for a messenger application to run in the background since a notification service is quite capable of delivering what you are expecting without needing the IM application itself to be running. The Palm Pre certainly has a better notification system than the iPhone (from what I can tell) but it can still deliver those messages via a notification service rather than having the application itself running in the background.

Radio applications I certainly admit that they would need to run in the background, much like VoIP application that are arguably much more important.

No, you are not going to be checking your email while in the middle of doing something. I absolutely guarantee that what you want is a notification that you have received new email and then you'll be switching to your email application before switching back to whatever it was that you were doing before. Under no circumstances are you going to have 2 applications on-screen on a screen as small as that as a smart phone. Done correctly the time required to shutdown and restart an application is negligible versus the time required to switch from one application to the other.

Trying to force the desktop paradigm onto a smartphone is just dumb because is simply is not necessary or even desirable. There are special cases when running in the background is necessary but make no bones about it, those cases are very few and far between and the sooner that people grasp that idea the sooner we can stop having this silly discussion.
by curtiskelowna May 9, 2009 4:18 PM PDT
dude are you technically challenged? there are huge advantages to multitasking!

example:

Say that while i'm browsing the internet on my phone i decide i would like to download a movie trailer. Lets say that this movie trailer is fairly big and might take 30 minutes. Now lets say during these 30 minutes i get an important text message. If this were the iphone (which i dont think it would be because i dont think it can download movies) you would NOT be able to finish the download. You would have to EXIT the browser and open the SMS app. In doing this you would have cleared the page you loaded and the download. On multitasking phones you could write an essay or whatever you wanted while it downloaded.

This is just one of thousands of everday applications for multitasking. You just need to use your noggin more and see why there are reasons these things get debated over
by sting7k May 6, 2009 6:25 AM PDT
The Pre won't take off until it gets off Sprint.
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by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:42 AM PDT
Seriously. If it went to Verizon, then I'd be hardpressed not to switch (i have an iPhone 3G on AT&T and I despise the call quality and frequency of dropped calls... which *did* increase after i got the iPhone, so its not *completely* AT&T's fault as my AT&T phone before hand didn't have nearly as many dropped calls). I'm thinking of switching to the Storm when my contract is up, but thats not til January, so who knows what will be out by then.
by codynews May 6, 2009 7:51 AM PDT
Yeah, you would think so right? But then again AT&T sucks and lots of people went over to them for the iphone
by AppleSuxLeo May 6, 2009 5:24 PM PDT
Tell that to my E*trade "sweep" account ! You are a tool !
by cb3431 May 6, 2009 6:27 AM PDT
It's a no go for me because it's tied to Sprint. The phone can't do anything to fix the fact that Sprint's network just doesn't work. What's the point of a nice notification system when Sprint can't deliver the messages on time or in order?

The iPhone will never be an option for me. I won't allow iVirus, some of you may know it as iTunes, on any of my computers.
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by myles taylor May 6, 2009 9:07 AM PDT
Please explain how iTunes is a virus or behaves like one. Bloatware yea. Virus, no.
by briansee May 6, 2009 8:48 PM PDT
It's nice how people say things without actually thinking about what they are saying. Sprint has the top rated network by JD Power. Their data coverage is excellent, and where you don't have Sprint coverage whose network do you roam onto?? Oh yeah...Verizon.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS149874+18-Mar-2009+BW20090318
by datum226 May 6, 2009 6:31 AM PDT
I find it very difficult to use iPhone as communicating device. Blackberry really nailed that area, and in my opinion when it comes to raw communication (email, sms, bbm) BB has no competition. As a business person, all I care is how to efficiently handle all incoming information; process it and organize it. Properly done multitasking is what makes it click.
The problem with iPhone is that they try to squeeze mac thinking into little box. It is pretty, it works, it attracts "shiny-toy-loving" crowd (that is why most downloaded apps are games), but it is mac. Where mac succeeds, iPhone fails. It fails to be THE device for business world. And if palm can beat my BB and make it easier to do more, I will never look back.
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by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:44 AM PDT
If the mac succeeds where the iPhone fails and it fails at being THE device for business, are you trying to say that Macs are THE computer for businesses? Cause there are a lot of surveys, charts, and graphs that would say otherwise.
by myles taylor May 6, 2009 9:08 AM PDT
Do you have an iPhone? You talk like someone who doesn't have one and yet is trying to act like they do. How have they failed? How many do they have to sell before it's considered success?
by datum226 May 6, 2009 9:36 AM PDT
2 pjhenry1216
I am not not talking about mac as THE device for business. I am saying that iPhone is an attempt to put mac in a small packaging. I was making the point if mac is the perfect device for business communication, iPhone is not.

2 myles taylor
I am a mac fan. That is the reason I have iPhone. But as much as I tried to use it for my work, I never made it a success. BB does much better job.
by kelmon May 7, 2009 2:19 AM PDT
"Properly done multitasking is what makes it click."

Perhaps you would find people more accepting of your point if you can illustrate a way that the BlackBerry achieves something that the iPhone does not due to the presence of background applications. I'm willing to bet that when that scenario is analysed that the problem is not related to background applications that that it can be achieved in a more efficient manner.
by DrtyDogg May 8, 2009 11:33 AM PDT
@kelmon: I can listen to music while I type an email. And get an IM all at the same time.
by pu2006 May 6, 2009 6:47 AM PDT
I don't understand all the brouhaha about multitasking on the iPhone. As mentioned in the article, the core apps do support multitasking. I can be on the phone talking to someone, switch to safarl (via the home screen, natch) and browse whatever I want (BTW, this will not be possible on the Pre without using WiFi since AFAIK CDMA-based phones cannot perform simultaneous voice and data operations). The iPod app can play music in the background and a quick pop-up is a couple taps away to switch tracks and adjust volume. The mail app and safari both load messages and web pages in the background while another app is running. Most of the third party apps I use are written to Apple's recommendation to maintain state after they are exited so that the user experience is that you are brought right back to where you were. So aside from not being able to listen to Pandora and such while web browsing or checking email (which is unfortunate and I have strong suspicions that this will be resolved with the iPhone OS 3.0 final release or shortly thereafter) I personally don't have issues with Apple's implementation.

In fact, I find it rather interesting that Palm is actually using Apple's multi-page/window safari interface to implement their multitasking feature. Sure, they glitzed it up and added the "card" rearrangement and throw away features, but it's basically the same interface safari on iPhone already uses to manage multiple open web pages. I wonder when Palm's gonna release that back to the community since the webkit project that safari and webOS browsers are both based on is open source?

I do like Palm's notification interface although my biggest complaint about notification on the iPhone aren't the pop-up messages that others complain about, but the phone feature itself. If I'm playing a game and a phone call comes in, the app is shutdown and the phone app is displayed with the option to answer or ignore. Too bad I couldn't ignore the call before the game was shutdown. Most of the time I would rather keep playing the game without any interruuption and call the person back. I haven't seen how the Pre handles this yet, but hopefully they use the same philosophy of non-intrusiveness for their phone app. And maybe one of them can also figure out how to get the wife to understand that walking in front of the TV during a COD4:WAW deathmatch is just as annoying.
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by monkeyfun14 May 6, 2009 9:39 AM PDT
No one just wants to run core app's though..
by -Roddly May 6, 2009 11:54 AM PDT
"Apple's multi-page/window safari " - I've seen that multi-page interface for web browsers on portable devices long before the iphone existed.
by kool_skatkat May 6, 2009 6:48 AM PDT
I wonder if third parties will make slide out keyboards for the iPhone 3.0, since it allows hardware to be plugged in. NetBook in disguise?
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by pjhenry1216 May 6, 2009 7:51 AM PDT
I'd never *ever* want to use my iPhone 3G as a NetBook. It'd make a terrible netbook. Worse than Windows 7 for netbooks (though that may not be true, it may just be for third world countries) that only allows 3 apps to run at a time. The iPhone allows only 1 app to run at a time. It makes a handy web browser for quick things like looking up quick bits of info, but nothing too complex. If the webpage wasn't designed for the iPhone, it generally tends to be a pain to use.

Plus, you're still only able to use apps approved by Apple. If I have a netbook, I'd want the ability to install what I want.

Though, to be honest, you'll probably see a mini keyboard for it. Plus, a lot of people will say it meets their needs for a netbook, but all that really means is that they really didn't need a netbook, just a physical keyboard for their phone.
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