Toshiba signs up for Blu-ray

This was originally posted at ZDNet's Between the Lines.

Toshiba said Monday it is planning a lineup of products that support the Blu-ray storage format. Toshiba was one of the leading companies behind HD DVD, a standard that lost to Blu-ray.

In a statement, that it will provide "a wide range of advanced digital products" including DVD players, HDTVs, and laptops that support multiple storage devices. "In light of recent growth in digital devices supporting the Blu-ray format, combined with market demand from consumers and retailers alike, Toshiba has decided to join the BDA (Blu-ray Disc Association).

The company said it will roll out Blu-ray products "in the course of this year."

Sony was one of the founders of Blu-ray and supported the technology via its high-definition video products and PlayStation 3. Toshiba ceded the format war to Blu-ray in February 2008. In July, it was reported that Toshiba would roll out Blu-ray products.

[redmarine]

This is kinda sad for Microsoft...

[monkeyfun14]

How? Someone was going to lose the format war anyways. They'll eventually back it in their products as well.

[Random_Walk]

They didn't give the a real commitment in the xbox 360, instead making it a bulky (and external, IIRC) optional component (meanwhile, Sony parked a BD player in every PS3 going out the door). <br /><br />The funny thing was, Microsoft convinced Toshiba to support it with the HD-DVD, then left Toshiba out to dry (seriously, the HD-DVD xbox add-on was a half-hearted effort at best). If I were to feel anything about a vendor, I'd feel more sad for Toshiba than Microsoft. <br /><br />Of course, they have a history of doing that to partners... just look up the PlaysForSure group, or ask IBM.

[umbrae]

Other than the menu system using a MS product this has nothing to do with MS. Although MS didn't openly support BR, they did not support HDDVD other than making a stand alone drive. MS was just a customer of HDDVD nothing more.

[ewsachse]

Yeah, well that overpriced BluRay player in the PS3 is what is dooming the PS3. It has kept the cost of the PS3 too high, which is why the price is too high.<br /><br />To address the IBM-Microsoft partnership, are you talking about the ill-fated OS/2? IBM is equally at fault for the failure of OS/2. Microsoft originally wanted to only create a 32-bit OS/2 that required a 386 processor. IBM balked at this and insisted that Microsoft create a 16-bit OS/2 that ran on the 286 processor. Microsoft delivered OS/2 to IBM, and then washed their hands of it to create their own Windows NT. IBM had to create their own 32-bit OS/2, but the product was already viewed as obsolete because they came out with the 16-bit version that they should have never developed.<br /><br />IBM shot themselves in the foot over that one. I do not blame Microsoft for bailing out on OS/2 and IBM.

[Random_Walk]

@umbrae:<br /><br />http://itvibe.com/news/3612/ <br /><br />Microsoft and Toshiba were indeed partnered to develop HD-DVD. They also pulled in Broadcom later on in a lesser role (http://www.socaltech.com/mobilestory.php?storyid=0006951)<br /><br />---<br /><br />"Yeah, well that overpriced BluRay player in the PS3 is what is dooming the PS3."<br /><br />Perhaps, but it won Sony the format war, which is what really mattered to Sony. <br /><br />"...are you talking about the ill-fated OS/2?"<br /><br />Your revisionist history aside, I wasn't pointing out specifics, but pointing out the pattern: Partner with Microsoft, and you will likely get burned at the first opportunity.

[Spartan_458]

The PS3 didn't win Sony the format war. No one supported HD DVD, which is why it died. Blu-ray happened to be the one that survived.

[viper396]

@Random_Walk ...conveniently twisting around the facts again are we? Were you at that meeting when "Microsoft convinced Toshiba to support it with the HD-DVD"...very doubtful. Since everyone else knows that Toshiba was the originator of HD-DVD your attempts to blame it's failure on Microsoft barely holds water. You might as well be blaming Best Buy, Amazon, and Wal-mart for not selling enough when they could. <br /> <br />Either way, your feeble attempts to try to turn every unrelated topic into an lame excuse to bash against Microsoft is just getting tired and unoriginal. You've become an irrelevent joke.

[Random_Walk]

@viper:<br /><br />I posted evidence to back up my claims - where is yours? All you have posted thus far is bile and anger - oh, and bald assertion. You're going to have to do better than simply hurling blind hate to make your case.<br /><br />--<br /><br />@Spartan 458:<br /><br />"The PS3 didn't win Sony the format war. No one supported HD DVD, which is why it died."<br /><br />So tell me this: How exactly do you think Sony managed to convince its movie studio competitors (e.g. Paramount) to do exclusive BD (vs. HD-DVD) releases? The answer involves a known market. All those PS3's contributed to a provable market of existing users to consume the product, and therefore (in teh studios' eyes) a viable market. HD-DVD did not have this, since it relied on the far, far smaller number of sold consumer players and the odd handful of xbox users who sprung for the HD-DVD add-on.

[mbenedict]

Dont mind Random_Walk (aka Penguinisto); he's a known MS basher who doesn't care about facts. Saying that Microsoft "convinced" Toshiba to support HD-DVD, etc., is low even for an Apple fanboi.<br /><br />The truth is, Microsoft had very little to do with what later became HD-DVD. The originators of HD-DVD were Toshiba and NEC, *not* Toshiba and Microsoft. Toshiba in particular was concerned about the cost of manufacturing Blu-ray players and discs. <br /><br />So Toshiba developed its own system called Advanced Optical Disc, and along with NEC proposed it to the DVD Forum in the Fall of 2002.<br /><br />For years, Microsoft did NOT back either Blu-ray nor HD-DVD, since Windows will support *both* formats, and in hopes of a unified standard. However in May 2005, during the PS3 launch Sony confirmed that the PS3 will use Blu-ray. This put a lot of pressure on the (then-upcoming) XBOX 360 to have some kind of HD solution.<br /><br />Under this context Microsoft decided to finally (and reluctantly) support HD-DVD in late 2005, fully 3-years *AFTER* the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD camps had already split, and a few months *AFTER* both camps announced that they could not agree on a unified standard. <br /><br />By this time the XBOX 360 was already in the production line and Microsoft had to come up with a viable HD option for it. Had Microsoft known that the PS3 would be delayed for a full year after the 360, they might not have joined the HD-DVD group at all.<br /><br />So for Random_Walk / Penguinisto to blame Microsoft for "convincing Toshiba" to support HD-DVD is just sad. At this point I don't know why anyone would put any credibility into anything this guy says.

[chrkeller]

The second Microsoft and Toshiba didn't put a HD-DVD standard into the xbox 360, the war was over. Toshiba fought and carried on far too long.

[Random_Walk]

They didn't have much choice after sinking what was probably a billion or more into the thing.

[SactoGuy018]

If it weren't for the announcements at CES in January 2008, there would have been a chance that Microsoft would have announced and eventually shipped an Xbox 360 console with a built-in HD-DVD player. But when both Time Warner and 20th Century Fox decided to go Blu-ray only, that pretty much doomed the HD-DVD format.

[Random_Walk]

Err, which announcements, and why would those have stopped them? More curious than anything as to where you're heading with the statement...

[neowolfwitch]

I hope they come out with a BD player before the holidays. I'd like to get one that matches my Toshiba HD-DVD player, which I still use regularly. I've always liked their products.

[Random_Walk]

I'm thinking that they've learned a painful lesson as to what happens when you do deals with certain corporations, especially one that has a track record as bad as their other big partner in HD-DVD.

[tektaktyks]

how about support for bd in the wmp and mc (powerdvd suck)

[planblove]

Too bad they didn't make this decision back in 2005.

[Captain-Atari]

It's funny how folks are blaming Microsoft for the demise of HDDVD. It's clearly Warner Home video and hollywood greed that put HDDVD in the ground. Sony paid Warner a ridiculous amount of cash for them to go Blu only. Sony will be swimming in red ink for years not to mention they have ruined the Playstation brand. Microsoft was smart in keeping HDDVD hardware out of the 360. The 360 plays games and does it at a low cost to developers and consumers. The PS3 days as the premire Blu-ray Player are over. There are better players at a lower price point. Videophiles are picking up the new OPPO Bluray Player and Gamers don't really give crap about movies anyway. IMHO this format war was nothing of the sort. It was extortion by the Hollywood studios. Unlike the Betamax vs VHS war which nearly lasted 10yrs and was fought on store shelves. This was just bribery and Sony was dumb enough to pay it. In the end Blu-ray will limp along as niche format as DVD continues to out sell it as a cheap good enough alternative until another hot technology comes along that Hollywood thinks it can use to resell consumers the same content for the 3rd or 4th time.

[Random_Walk]

You're confusing the third parties for the combatants. Microsoft and Toshiba teamed up in a snit after they (mostly Microsoft) didn't get their way from the BD working group (which is why HD-DVD was formed in the first place). <br /><br />Sony learned well from the Betamax vs. VHS wars, and lost Betamax to similar tactics back in the day. VHS got traction because the proponents managed to persuade studios (especially porn studios) to start releasing VHS-only movies. The fact that it took longer only reflects the slower-moving nature of the industry back in the 1980s, coupled with legacy support issues that had built up by the time the war was really on. <br /><br />Me, I have no preference... I'll happily continue to use plain old DVD for now.

[Renegade Knight]

Draconian DRM in BD helped sway the studios. To get BD quality you have major and expensive hardware requirments to be allowed to watch the quality you paid for. That's the consumer price of the DRM that Sony sold Hollywood.

[viper396]

It's time to just ignore the irrelevant and single-minded banter of Random_Walk. If you haven't noticed it by now he has a anti-Microsoft agenda. It doesn't matter what the topic actually is, he'll twist it around and even flat out lie just to be vindictive for his own irrational cause. He has little credibility or integrity and anyone reading his gibberish would be better off ignoring it.

[Random_Walk]

Did you actually have something to contribute "viper", or are you just throwing a temper-tantrum?

[Random_Walk]

@Renegade Knight:<br /><br />The issue of control over the DRM (IIRC) had a lot to do with why the HD-DVD/BD break-off started in the first place. To wit: Microsoft was apparently unable to get the BD group to bend to it's demands concerning DRM, so it decided to go its own way and talked Toshiba along for the ride (though Toshiba likely had its own reasons as well).

[loki2240]

Captain-Atari wrote: "It's clearly Warner Home video and hollywood greed that put HDDVD in the ground."&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Or consumer choice. Blu-ray had more studio support and way more CE manfufacturer support at launch. Once the PS3 launched, Blu-ray started beating HD DVD in disc sales. That lead had been significant for over a year by the time that Warner went Blu-ray exclusive. Toshiba's approach of selling 1080i HD DVD players at a loss was a failure, as it deterred other CE manufacturers from entering the HD DVD player market and even standalone Blu-ray players outsold standalone HD DVD players by Christmas 2007, anyway. <br /> <br />And it's funny how you cite an unproven payment to Warner from Sony, when it's a known fact that Paramount took money to drop Blu-ray and go HD DVD exclusive. Face it, Toshiba was doomed to fail from the beginning with an inferior format, less studio support, way less CE manufacturer support, a much smaller target market, and a foolish sell at a loss strategy.

[loki2240]

@ Renegade Knight: <br /> <br />If Blu-ray hardware was/is expensive because of draconian DRM, then why were 1080p HD DVD players the same MSRP as a lot of Blu-ray players? I think Blu-ray hardware was expensive and is still more expensive than most DVD hardware because new technology is almost always expensive (or at least more expensive), largely due to higher production costs (including research and development costs).

[EvanSei]

two things 1-good job toshiba for finally seeing the light 2- I had no idea that microsoft was behind blue-ray, looks like they can get something right the first time.

[Random_Walk]

Microsoft was behind HD-DVD: http://itvibe.com/news/3612/

[EvanSei]

wow did I read that wrong or what! please disregard my earlier microsoft comment.

[Don Key]

I can still buy HD-DVD's for $5 compared to the same movie on Blu-ray for $25 and the quality is the exact same. Shoot, there are some movies like the The Big Lebowski are are *only* on HD-DVD and not on Blu-ray. I have both players and use them equally. You simply cannot turn down the super deals on HD-DVD now.

[yacahuma]

Drop the bulky CD/ DVD crap. lets move to SD cards and downloadable content. An sd reader will be like $5. I will take my SD card to block buster, I will choose the movie and they will be downloaded to my SD. The SD player will decode the movie and thats it. It will be also be good to the environment. No more cd/dvd in the trash.

[monkeyfun14]

And im sure the movie studios will just love the idea of someone taking that SD and ripping the contents onto their pc's

[tappy727]

An SD player won't play the DVD movies I already own, a Blu-ray player will. So no, don't drop the bulky CD/DVD crap.

[Captain-Atari]

loki2240 wrote: And it's funny how you cite an unproven payment to Warner from Sony, when it's a known fact that Paramount took money to drop Blu-ray and go HD DVD exclusive. Face it, Toshiba was doomed to fail from the beginning with an inferior format, less studio support, way less CE manufacturer support, a much smaller target market, and a foolish sell at a loss strategy.<br /><br />Hey loki.. <br /><br />It was a payoff and it's not unproven. <br />http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13009.cfm<br />http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08012/848675-96.stm<br />http://gizmodo.com/344680/<br />Do you really think Warner would pick the more expensive format to create movies for based on the sales at that time? HD-DVD had picked up considerable steam and had more dedicated players which is more important than movies sales in the short term. Sony had to buy them off because if Bluray failed that would have been the nail in the coffin for the struggling PS3. Which by the way is still selling at a loss. Sony is still losing on both Bluray and the PS3. As far as technology goes HD-DVD was far more solid and cheaper to produce and most important it's standards were complete. Thereare still incompatible BD players out there. Most important remember that HDDVD was 1st and Sony came in with the unfinished Blu-ray tech and used FUD to create an alternate standard. They want patent money plain and simple and they have very nearly ruined the company in pursuit of it. In the end it might not be worth it.<br /><br /> Also the consumers didn't make that decision. Almost a year after the HDDVD "DYING" THERE WERE STILL MORE DEDICATED HD-DVD players than dedicated BLU-Ray. The BDA inflates the numbers using the PS3 but nobody really knew how many of those units were actually used for movies at the time. Like I said before this format war was nothing of the sort. In the future media standards should be set by impartial parties with some government regulation thrown in. Can you imagine if the HDTV standard was handled like the HD DVD/Blu-Ray mess. We would be on Analog TV for another 20yrs.