Is RealDVD dispute really about a DVD jukebox?
This is the front of Facet, RealNetworks' prototype of a next-generation DVD player that can copy and store hundreds of films.
(Credit: Greg Sandoval/CNET)SAN FRANCISCO--When it comes to RealNetworks' strategy to offer consumers a digital alternative to movie discs, RealDVD is only one facet.
"Facet" is also the codename for Real's prototype DVD player. The box, which Real CEO Rob Glaser demonstrated in court on Tuesday, comes equipped with a hard drive and software that enables owners to duplicate DVDs--in a similar fashion as RealDVD--and then store hundreds of movies on the device.
Glaser testified in U.S. District Court here during a preliminary hearing in the copyright case against RealDVD. The Motion Picture Association of America has alleged in a lawsuit that RealDVD, which enables people to copy a DVD and store it on a PC, violates copyright law. What became evident during Tuesday's proceedings is that Facet may be much more important to Real than RealDVD.
Facet "strikes me as much more promising market for Real than ripping on personal computers," said Fred von Lohmann, who was in court to observe and who is senior attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which advocates for Internet users and technology companies. "Where PCs are involved, Real has to compete against software readily available on the Web, such as HandBrake, which promises more features for less money."
TiVo for DVDs
Real began work on Facet with the hope of building a next-generation DVD player, Glaser told before U.S. District Judge Marilyn Patel. Glaser argued that consumers are clamoring for a better way to manage their DVD collections and that Facet and similar products, such as high-end DVD players from Kaleidescape, do exactly that. In addition to building its own box, Real could conceivably generate income by licensing Facet's software to consumer electronic makers.
The major film studios perhaps view Facet as a device that could do to DVDs what the iPod did to recorded music. Facet owners could rent or borrow films and then copy and store them without ever having to pay a cent. It's been widely reported that most of the music on iPods was ripped from CDs or illegally downloaded.
The studios maintain that consumers don't have the right to copy films they already own, according to statements made by MPAA lawyers during the hearing, which started Friday and will continue Wednesday. Hollywood contends that if, for example, consumers want to download a copy of a movie they already own, then they must pay additional fees for the digital version.
If Real wins the case, it would open the door for others to create devices without having to first seek studio approval. EFF's von Lohmann has long accused the MPAA, which he says has a long anti-innovation history going back to the Sony Betamax, of targeting RealDVD to preserve its business models rather than to protect movies from piracy.
During Glaser's demonstration of Facet, he showed how the box made the process of scanning, selecting, and pulling up digital DVD copies as simple as managing an iTunes music library.
In addition, the box could instantly provide a synopsis about a film or the movie's cover art, as well as enable a user who interrupts the playback for whatever reason to instantly return to the spot where the movie left off. Glaser used a copy of a box set from the show "The Sopranos" to demonstrate how a Facet owner could begin playing any episode within the set almost instantly.
A Facet owner wouldn't have to worry about digging into a drawer or cupboard for a disc, loading it into a DVD player, and waiting for the DVD drive to begin spinning. The box is like a TiVo for DVDs, said von Lohmann.
When it comes to offering copy protection, Facet locks down information far more effectively than RealDVD. Glaser said movies copied by the device would only play on that machine.
Here is the rear view of Facet, which Real CEO Rob Glaser says would sell for around $300.
(Credit: Greg Sandoval/CNET)
Kaleidescape was Real's blueprint
Glaser credited a DVD-copying device from Kaleidescape, which cost about $10,000, as Real's main inspiration. First, Glaser fell in love with his Kaleidescape while his wife was pregnant and bedridden. During this period, the couple watched a lot of movies and he said the box "liberated us from DVDs."
Glaser told the court this is when he began thinking about making a less expensive, mainstream version.
"Kaleidescapes are like Porsches," Glaser said. "They're very expensive. We thought we could develop Chevys, a $300 product that could replace a person's DVD player."
The second area where Kaleidescape influenced Real was by winning a legal challenge brought by the DVD Copy Control Association, which administers CSS encryption, the technology that protects DVDs from unauthorized copying.
The DVD CCA sued Kaleidescape, a CSS licensee, for breach of contract specifically over the CSS license requirements that physical DVDs be present in devices during playback.
Glaser said the decision opened the door legally and prompted Real to go to work on a similar product.
At that point in Glaser's testimony, he appeared to attempt to drive the point home that the MPAA's lawsuit was a thinly cloaked attempt to quash competition. He told the court that Hollywood is working hard to sell digital film copies that it bundles with DVDs but also charges more for the added copy. He said that unless the restraining order placed on RealDVD last fall is removed soon--a move that would presumably allow Real to begin selling that software as well as the Facet--the film industry would effectively kill Real's attempts to offer consumers a better way to watch movies.
"If we're enjoined (from selling RealDVD)," Glaser testified, "it would have very dire consequences frankly for us to ever be in this business."
Greg Sandoval covers media and digital entertainment for CNET News. He is a former reporter for The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times. E-mail Greg, or follow him on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sandoCNET. 
It is a glorified DVR that Comcast,Verizon,Tivo also have similar but not quite the same features!
This hardware is completely legit and would add years to the survivability to my DVD collection.
How much of civilization would you like to outlaw in order to prevent the minority from using civilized tools? Shall we start with fire, or the wheel?
Studies have shown that vast majority of people *prefer* the legal uses of, for instance, Betamax to the illegal uses. That was canonized in the Supreme Court. Get your nose out of other people's lives and mind your own business.
dumbspammers makes an intelligent post to keep things in check. I wish we had more posters like dumbspammers.
Just because an MP3 player can be used to copy music doesn't make it illegal. Just because VCRs could be used to copy movies didn't make them illegal and just because this device could be used to copy DVDs you don't have rights to shouldn't (and won't) make it illegal.
Real has good lawyers and I'm sure they're ready to give the various precedents like Sony vs. Universal (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._v._Universal_City_Studios ) that make this a legitimate device.
I support what is right.
We know damn well that alot of people are just going to pick this up to copy store rentals who the hell honestly feels the need to copy their DVD's most people I know pick buy a DVD up keep it where it won't get lost if it's lost then buy another one.
The only people i've ever seen make copies of media like that are usually giving copies away.
Mind my own business?
If your wife is screaming cause she's being raped would you like neighbors to keep there noses out and mind their own business?
total cost: $120.
soupyhotness it doesn't make sense to resist change or to not put products on the market just because they can be used for purposes. You think that thugs with pantyhose are bad, you should look at our politicians and corporations who take things in much larger scale from us. To quote my favorite line of all time: "Resistance is Futile!"
Weren't ipods created with the idea that people would rip their own cd's and put them on there?
@shootfirst
I think you're right about the streaming thing, thats how I see it too.
What just baffles me about all of this is that they keep trying to fight companies that are trying to commercialize something that is really easy to put together on your own. I agree they should just try and get their "slice" and work with it. With the gain in htpc's this thing doesn't really do anything remarkable. You can put together a decent htpc with more hard drive for similar money, and it can do everything a computer can do!
With physical media, I can at least play a DVD in my car, on my computer, on any DVD player in the house etc. I like realnetworks solution, because I'm not tied to their hardware. I still own the original DVD, and can watch it wherever I bring the disc.
I love idea of having no discs for my little kids to swap and scratch, and hopefully the reliability of not being a full pc. I might even buy one to plug into the car throught the aux input if possible.
further, stopping Real doesn't do anything to prevent illegal downloading, so what's the point?
I think the point in banning this DVD jukebox is so that mass-copying DVDs won't be as easy as making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Leaving out RealDVD, DVD copying is done only by the really digitally obsessed people who think their DVD collections are the most important thing in life. Or, owning the most DVD titles on his block. Some people really want to duplicate the entire NetFlix catalog. I know of at least one guy who's attempting to do this as we speak. Copying DVDs right now comprises of PC-based software that can only be obtained through Internet channels or a geek friend. Nevertheless, I'd estimate less than 1-percent of the digital population actually do these sort of things. But introducing something as simple as Facet will shoot that percentage through the roof!
One other thing I want to mention. If there was NO rental market in existence, I can see Facet being a really great product. But, as some others indicated, a lot of people - and I mean LOTS of people - will start filling this thing's hard disk with rental DVDs within weeks or even hours. You'll soon see various Facet hacker groups develop so that they can crack the hard disk code and allow people to extract the DVD images. Again, people can do this right now with the software that's out there. The MPAA just doesn't want the process to be easy or done by the masses.
Next thing you know these "lawyers" will be telling us that the sky is not blue.
Fair Use has been entrenched in law for how many decades? Can these lawyers not read english? I can't swear to the U.S. law, but in Canada it is legal to copy copyrighted works for your own use if you alkready own a legal copy. I have always understood the same was true in the U.S.
It's all about making money and nothing else.
Great copy protection, huh?
If I can legally record someting to a DVR and replay at my wish and even expand the DVR's capacity with external hard drives.
It all comes down to money the MPAA just wan'st more money for people paying for a digital copy.
I say Real should win the suit and that people will be able to copy their software for personal use. IE backup and media center computers.
Its this sort of unreasonable greed that is alienating honest law-abiding citizens.
- by Another_Duel_Booter May 2, 2009 3:03 PM PDT
- The MPAA doesn't care about the customers, the only people they are affecting are the people tat buy legal copies of DVD movies. I've never heard of a pirated copy with copy protection on it. I like the box are and the quality of legit DVDs, so I purchase mine movies legally. I also like have a media server in my house so I copy all my DVDs on to the server then i can stream them to any TV in the house. This product isn't going to make things any better or worse for the MPAA, at this point they are just being stubborn.
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