Sources: AT&T, Comcast may help RIAA foil piracy

CNET staff writer Marguerite Reardon co-authored this report.

AT&T and Comcast, two of the nation's largest Internet service providers, are expected to be among a group of ISPs that will cooperate with the music industry in battling illegal file sharing, three sources close to the companies told CNET News.

The Recording Industry Association of America, the lobbying group representing the four largest recording companies, said last month that it had enlisted the help of ISPs as part of a new antipiracy campaign. The RIAA has declined to identify which ISPs or how many.

"We have also consistently said that automatic cutoff of our customers is not something we would do."

--Spokesman for AT&T

It's important to note that none of the half dozen or so ISPs involved has signed agreements. The companies are "skittish" about negative press and could still back out, said the sources. But as it stands, AT&T and Comcast are among the companies that have indicated they wish to participate in what the RIAA calls a "graduated response program."

Typically, ISPs have stayed away from getting involved in copyright enforcement. The ISPs working with the RIAA will forward take-down notices to network users accused of illegal file sharing and in an unprecedented move, will establish a series of responses for chronic copyright violators.These responses will gradually grow in severity as the number of violations go up and may include suspension of service or even service termination. Each ISP will decide its own response.

An RIAA spokesman declined to comment, and a Comcast representative said he wouldn't confirm the company's participation. An AT&T spokesman said this: "While I'm not in a position to comment on the RIAA announcement, we believe that consumer education is a key component to enabling customers to find and use legal methods to access the content they want...we have also consistently said that automatic cutoff of our customers is not something we would do."

There are still plenty of details left to work out, the sources said. The RIAA has yet to address how it would help ISPs make up for the revenue they would lose by kicking people off their networks or who would pay the costs of sending take-down notices. The RIAA may disclose participating ISPs as soon as next month, according to a music industry source, adding that AT&T and Comcast are expected to be part of the group.

If AT&T and Comcast do join, the RIAA will have plenty of muscle to wage a new assault on piracy. The music industry said last month that it would no longer battle piracy by filing lawsuits against individuals. Instead, the big recording companies seek to create a new line of defense at the network level. And at least on paper, the plan is a potent one.

"Certainly (the ISPs) rolled out broadband based on movie and music downloads, legal and illegal and claimed (exemption from any legal responsibility), but at this point I think they realize being good partners with the content industry is a better idea."

--Rick Carnes, president of the Songwriters Guild of America

Broadband providers are the gatekeepers of Internet access and have their hands on all the controls.

News that Comcast and AT&T would likely join the fight against illegal file sharing was greeted warmly by Rick Carnes, president of the Songwriters Guild of America.

"Perhaps we have a chance to rebuild the music business after a period of tremendous looting," Carnes said. "You can't have a marketplace without property rights. Certainly (the ISPs) rolled out broadband based on movie and music downloads, legal and illegal and claimed (exemption from any legal responsibility), but at this point I think they realize being good partners with the content industry is a better idea. I really want to salute them for doing that."

The move is part of the music industry's global campaign to sway broadband providers to join in protecting copyright material.

The entertainment industry has been trying to get laws passed throughout the world that would force ISPs to implement a "three strikes" policy. Under such a policy, repeat offenders would be given three notices to stop infringing on copyright before a service provider cuts off Internet access.

Such a "three strikes" policy was implemented in France in 2007. The way it works is that ISPs issue warning messages to customers downloading files illegally. And if users ignore those messages, their accounts could be suspended or closed altogether.

Italy is considering a similar policy, according to the blog TorrentFreak. But in the U.K. a "three strikes" law appears to be losing support. The The Times of London reported Monday that passage of such a law is unlikely given that ISPs there don't want the added regulation.

The newspaper reported that David Lammy, the intellectual property minister, said a law that requires ISPs to disconnect users had too many legal issues surrounding it. That said, ISPs in the U.K. have agreed to work with the movie and music industries to help stop piracy. In July last year, ISPs agreed to a memorandum of understanding with the music and film industries in which ISPs agreed to send 1,000 letters a week for three months to combat users caught sharing files illegally, The Times reported.

Here in the U.S. ISPs have been reluctant to send letters or cut off service. And so far only in a couple of isolated agreements has an ISP agreed to help content owners police and enforce copyright infringement. In 2005, Verizon struck the stealth deal to win favor with Disney management. Verizon is building out a TV network and is striking content deals with movie studios and TV networks. In exchange for forwarding notices to suspected illegal file sharers, Disney gave Verizon the rights to transmit 12 of Disney's TV channels over its broadband network.

The problem with these agreements is how to enforce them. If notices are sent automatically, there's no way to tell if a user has received it. Representative of the Electronic Frontier Foundation have reserved judgment until they hear the RIAA's plan detailed. They want to know how ISPs will protect users from being wrongly accused and whether ISPs will blackball users who have been kicked off other networks.

Another big question that EFF asks is how far will the policing efforts eventually go? Will network operators be responsible for identifying illegal content on their networks and then be asked to stop it from traversing its broadband pipes?

AT&T has previously stated that it's been testing technology that does just that. The company hasn't announced plans to use the filter technology. But the company has been working with members of the Motion Picture Association of America and the RIAA over the past year to figure out ways in which it can curb the flow of illegal content on its network.

Sources told CNET News that the RIAA hasn't asked any ISP to peer into packets or be responsible for monitoring their networks for piracy. The RIAA will continue to identify alleged copyright violators and report them to their ISPs.

[Migraine]

I am Glad I do not use Either service , I had used Comcast long ago but left them long ago when there network got slower than dialup and the snobbishly refused to do anything about it .

I was about to Go Back to comcast when they announced there download cap.

But now that they are going to side with the Mafia of music AKA the RIAA to spy on me I will never EVER USE them Again! and I will tell every one I know To stay away.

NOTE! to any one that helps the Mafia of Music AKA the RIAA you might as well put the "Going out of Business Sign on your Front Door!"

[inachu]

Files should be identified first hand if they are free.
I am sure many files on bit torrent will be labled at copyright when in fact they are free to redistrubute.
Such as linux and games like AMERICAS ARMY. I am sure some people will be black listed for torrenting similar files such as those

[Lerianis]

That is the big problem. A lot of songs out there have the same names as 'illegal' songs but are actually perfectly legal to trade.

[DJC1979]

Nowhere in the article did I read anything about people being sent letters for transferring legal files over peer-to-peer networks. The RIAA use 'trolls' to scour file sharing networks to find and download copyrighted material. After identification of copyrighted material, they trace the distributors to gain access to their IP addresses. Armed with the IP addresses, they will approach the ISP with their 'proof' and ask for the letter to be sent or whatever.

If you're not pirating, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[pentest]

An IP address is trivial to spoof, and by itself not proof of anything.

[lkrupp]

Bye-bye bit torrents. Torrents are used for one purpose only, theft. Period. Once the thieves have been silenced there will be no use for torrents and more bandwidth will be available for legitimate users.

[Sausagebiscuit]

only theft? lets see...

World of Warcraft, 11million users use the bittorrent technology to download huge game patches, every day.
Open source community uses bittorrent to distribute large software (OpenOffice, Linux distros, etc)

I only named two huge uses for non-theft, and I am sure there are MANY more. List away to prove ikrupp wrong.

By the way, what exactly is a legitimate user?

[freemarket--2008]

Peer-to-peer technology has many legitimate uses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer#Application_of_P2P_network_besides_file_sharing

Try a little research next time.

[myles taylor]

Even if what you said was true and that bit torrents were only used for theft (which I think has been proven it is not), you really think that communities of thousands of users would roll over and take that? I think not. The backlash would be crazy. If they do this moderately, it could cut back on illegal downloads, but never stop them.

[mectron]

i see that the RIAA brainwash-o-matic(tm) work wonders on you. Bit Torrent is the most usefull thing to ave ever been invented for the internet.

[Central_office_tech]

You are an idiot. Bit Torrent is a great legitimate way to distribute applications, software, media and files. Many organizations use it legally to distribute "their" products to their customers. The Linux community for example uses it to distribute large files freeing the companies from having to supply all the bandwidth. There is a lot of theft on torrents, but there is a lot of theft on youtube too. As for more bandwidth for legit users, The ISPs were supposed to upgrade as they gained more customers and got huge chunks of tax payer money to do so. But never did.

You are an un-educated twit that like to spout off about things you know little about lkrupp.

[Noneyabeeswax]

Why don't you do some research and educate yourself before you make such statements. Businesses use torrents to send extremely large files all the time, and independent bands and writers use torrents as well. Software companies make legit releases and put them out as torrents. Torrents are NOT just used for theft. And I resent the implication that if I download a legitimate file via torrents that I'm automatically a criminal. I can also upload my own torrent files of anything I created myself. So put that in your uninformed pipe and smoke it.

There are going to be lawsuits over this, just wait and see. ISPs are not cops, and they cannot declare someone guilty and enforce the law. There are going to be innocent people accused of illegal activities and punished by an ISp that is trying to be a law enforcement agency. But I guess since AT&T has been guilty of criminal activity in wiretapping without warrants themselves, they feel like they're the only ones above the law. They got away Scot free the first time, why not twice? May they go down in flaming bankruptcy.

The RIAA needs to get their heads out of the sand. The future of the music industry is NOT in CDs and DVDs, it's in mobile music files. And allowing people to choose the titles of songs they want, not forcing people to buy an album of trash to get one or two songs. And if they'd produce something besides cookie cutter trash maybe they'd sell more music. A lot of music lovers have gone over to independent bands that produce and sell their own music online, and gee, they do some of it via torrents. So the RIAA, and AT&T can kiss my grits!

I've bought a small fortune in music over the years, and I'm not buying anymore. I'll listen to the radio, I have been for the last 10 years. Nothing that the music industry has put out has even tempted me to spend another penny after living through four changes of media, and rebuilding my library four times, I'm not giving them another stinking dime! I've bought enough music to fill a large pick up truck bed. From vinyl to Cds. No more, I'm through with it. The RIAA has gotten their last dime from me. They were greedy and they lost. I'm going to an internet phone also, when At&T starts it's self appointed policing, I'll be using OOMA by then, as well as my cell phone. Good bye to AT&T. I don't need them and I refuse to support a company like that with my money. And thank all the Gods you can think of we, don't have Comcast here in my neck of the woods.

[cohaver]

Torrents are not just used for theft they are used to market small media companies TV and programing from all part of the world . independent programmers use it . RIAA problem is they use the cheapest Format to market there programming and leaves holes in their media. Copyrights should go hand in hand with Format control if world gos to Blue Ray than everything of lower standard should be copyright free . MP3 is now a old standard Should be copyright free . As Technology go forward RIAA should invest in Controls of Latest standard and market only to those standards First . Movies go to the Theater before going straight to DVD or Pay per view . American Greed for Doing Nothing and forcing us to live in 1999 for next 100 years is stupid.

[Inconnux]

Pure Pwnage (internet show) releases every episode via torrents to keep their costs down. I use torrents to dl them. Yes their is a lot of pirated material on these sites, but there is TONS of legitimate stuff as well.

[renGek]

You must be a project manager in real life. Wait thats not possible because you know the term bit torrent so maybe an underpaid part time project manager.

[kojacked]

I think the Internet should be shutdown because its only used for one purpose: theft. It's stealing minutes from my life right now reading stuff like "Bye-bye bit torrents. Torrents are used for one purpose only, theft. Period."

Oh, almost forgot one more purpose the internet serves: as a place for lkrupp to look stupid.

[Sausagebiscuit]

/sigh

[Joetwopointoh]

Busying themselves with business as usual, squeezing their existing customer base for every drop of bandwidth the company's refuse to pony up the cash to improve while an impending torrent of lost revenue rushes headlong at them in the form of thousands of customers dropping service due to job loss.

That's thinking!

[contentcreator--2008]

How many millions of workdays have been lost in the film and music industry already because of people stealing content? The theft of intellectual property must stop---producing intellectual property is where new jobs come from these days!

[badasscat]

"How many millions of workdays have been lost in the film and music industry already because of people stealing content?"

Absolutely none. And there is absolutely no proof otherwise. In fact, there is plenty of proof to the opposite, such as record revenues for the film industry last year.

[Lerianis]

badasscat gets it right with his 'absolutely none' statement. Most peole who download things 'illegally' (usually when the things are not available in stores anymore or for a price that they can afford) would not buy the things in question until there is a big price drop.

[rcardona2k]

AT&T the Spy ISP?. First the NSA "learned us" how to spy on our customers, Bushie gave us a get of jail free card and now we'll use our chops to develop a profit center by getting secret payments from Big Media to spy, throttle and otherwise frustrate our customers. We don't want to cut off them as they that would cut our revenue. Revenue from all sides, gotta love it. AT&T Seamless Profit Machine

[Dalkorian]

Your world. Delivered.
To the NSA. And soon to the RIAA as well.
What, you think it's coincidence that our corporate logo looks like a Death Star?

[xcal78]

Work for AT&T huh?

[Wak_Em]

Rather Orwellian, is it not?

[Penguinisto]

Fsck 'em - Time to go see if Verizon's FiOS service is among the ISPs and ditch Comcast. May as well ditch Comcast's TV service too while I'm at it...

[myles taylor]

It's Verizon and Comcast who have deals with them so far, so ditching Comcast (which I'm all for BTW) for Verizon doesn't seem to make any sense.

[myles taylor]

Oops, my mistake. I thought I saw mention of Verizon on there. I guess they have a shadow deal with Disney but are not part of this deal.

[TX-Sunset]

Didn't you read? Verizon already made a deal back in '05 to get the Disney Channels.

[sharmajunior]

This is gonna get interesting when there will be millions without internet because the ISP shut down on them.

I would like to see how these so called ISP's make revenue by kicking customers away. It goes against the logic of the Federal government reaching out to people and providing them with broadband.

Also how do you expect to download legal files via bittorrent without the ISP lowering/putting a cap on your bandwidth/usage.

[mectron]

All we need is a Lawer who seek fame and fortune, so sue the RIAA until it is force to shutdown, as the RIAA (AND MPAA) serve NO LEGAL purpose of any kind. while Bit Torrent have MANY legal usages the RIAA and MPAA have NONE.

[sharmajunior]

I say let's boycott them and let them earn a lesson from this.

To the people around the country.....don't stop downloading.....let's see how many of us are the ISP's willing to lose as their customer.

[Lerianis]

Exactly right. The fact is that if they cut off EVERYONE who downloads things 'illegally'.... they wouldn't have any customers at all!

[zincmann]

Shame shame shame, I will continue to use my paid for Broadband connection, and if Time Warner decides to implement the same thing, I will switch back to DSL, trust me there are enough choices out there, and America will vote with their wallets, unless youre paying for my internet connection, you do not have the right to tell me what I can do with it. Period...

[Sausagebiscuit]

I really like your last statement. I'll use my bandwidth that I paid for -- how I want and when I want. Don't like it? Don't oversell. Don't offer unlimited access. Don't keep increasing speed and then crying later.

I wonder how well encryption will help with packet shaping.

[zincmann]

Amen Brother Amen....we as americans are struggling as a group, we pay enough to these companies for service, we want to be left alone, I dont use a Huge amount of bandwith but I do download large files from time to time, and if its all you can eat its all you can eat. Fire a couple of your top executives that are paperweights and use that money to improve your infrastructure.

[fp1955]

To zincmann and Sausagebiscuit: You both missed the point of this article. It is not about bandwidth usage, but rather about THEFT! They (the RIAA) don't want to stop legal dowloading of files, but rather the THEFT of someone else's property. If you condone theft, then leave your houses and cars unlocked so that others may take what they wish from you without paying you.

[Sausagebiscuit]

Funny thing, is it's not theft. Copyright infringement, perhaps. If my car gets stolen, I can't replace it. That is theft.

All these people who call it "theft" and "piracy" make me sick. The sad part about this, is that maybe it should be treated as theft. Right now, thieves and murderers get less punishment than someone who infringes on copyright.

How will the RIAA and ISP determine what is legal? Will someone be assigned to you to sit and peek over your shoulder and advise on if you should download or not?

[Robespierre1848]

Sausagebiscuit, it IS theft. You don't have theft only when a physical thing has been subtracted from you. Copyright infringement is the theft of RIGHTS. If someone makes you a slave, they're not stealing anything from you except your RIGHT to be free. Piracy robs the author from his RIGHT to decide how his work is or isn't to be used.

I'm not saying it's possible or even desirable to get back to the old model of selling content, but what makes me sick is to see people coming up with all sorts of fallacies to try and make piracy look like something innocent, when it is anything but. It's a crime, it's morally wrong, and the very fact that its defenders feel the need to tell this half-lies goes to show how wrong the whole thing is in principle.

What is needed is a COMMITMENT from the content producers to provide quality content, as opposed to the degrading crap they've been pushing for the last 30 years or so, and a COMMITMENT from users not to pirate such high-quality content when it's available. The way it is now, both ends - producers and consumers of content - deserve each other.

[Dalkorian]

Sausagebiscuit is one of the few around here who gets it and hasn't drowned in **AA kool-aide. Copyright infringement never used to equate to "theft" before (not directly - they are distinctly different charges), why does it suddenly do so now? Just because some talentless suit in a Mercedes says so?

[palolo68]

Sausagebiscuit, it is theft of rights. I'm a songwriter/composer, and if someone used an mp3 of my song in a porno film, I'd be very upset. I want to have control over how my music is used. I am the copyright owner, and I have a right to say how my music can be used. And to others making comments on this forum about not being able to afford a dollar for a song....then do without it. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I was raised with the idea that if you can't afford it, then do without it. I've had people offer to burn a CD copy of Chick Corea, but I refuse to do that because it's disrespectful. Sure, artists can choose to give away their music for free, but MOST don't. That's just like slapping Chick Corea in the face by doing that, so I won't do it. I have tremendous respect for his jazz playing. People are just being jerks by illegal downloading music, movies etc. I'm japanese and we have a word "bachi" for that, that somewhere down the line, someday, somehow, it will come back to you....so many people being jerks....it's a shame

[myles taylor]

In this economic climate, it would have to be a unified front because otherwise they are going to drive customers to the services that don't have these restrictions. The underdog companies will start to grow like crazy. I hope this stuff doesn't go through. Anyone want to start a petition against this?

[man_w_balls]

Right on - I say let AT&T and Comcast do what they want, because the market forces will dictate what happens next. As I have said before, the market is juicily ripe for a new Free/Independent ISP. Just think if you started a new ISP, and gave customers a guaranteed contract that said "we will not allow unconstitutional warrantless surveillance OR copyright trolls on our network." You could be richer than an oil prince.

[TX-Sunset]

The movie Industry and Music Industry needs to join the new century. We live in a new age and old school rules just do not apply anymore. The cheap CDs the music industry is making us buy now a days do not last much longer then a cassette tape or LP of 20 years ago, but yet we still pay double. Many places around the country we are forced to pay $10+ dollars a head to watch a movie in a filthy theater with loud people and idiots with laser pointers. I am not condoning piracy or intellectual theft, but I do thing these ndustried need to figure out a productive solution rather then one that will alienate more people form buying their products.

[hassan_bin_sober]

Professional Assassination,
it's the highest form of public service

[jzenman_23]

I have no problem going to a movie and paying for the ticket if it's something I want to see and can't wait for a good rip on bittorrent... Then of course at the theater you have to add the $17 odd dollars for a small coke and a popcorn... I always found that absurd... Do you know how cheap popcorn is? It's like the same price as dirt and they have the nerve to tell us a bag of popcorn is $8? What planet are these people from... And then they get pissed when we watch their movies for free... And come on... You know it and I know it... 90% of the movies Hollywood are just not worth it... On top of all that I've read numerous articles saying the CIA and DOD help Hollywood with some of these scripts... So now I'm stealing your propaganda? It's just ludicrous... Trust me download Nothing But The Truth... It's supposed to be loosely based on the Valerie Plame affair... You'll have to turn your tv upside down and watch it backwards to get closer to the "Truth"... The CIA needs to hire better writers if their going to try to punch up a script...

[rivertoad (aka azimuth)]

The high price of popcorn is the theater's way of keeping money out of the hands of the distributors. Theaters pay the film distributors a proportion of ticket sales, the smaller the ticket price, the less they pay the distributors. Then they make up what they need to operate with concession sales.

[mectron]

Let the lawsuits begins! Wath openly criminal organisation RIAA is trying to do is simply illegal! No ISP have a legal right to blackmail you on behalf of the RIAA, especily with NO VALID PROOF of any kind. As everyone who is not a RIAA sellout know, a text file containing random IP Address is not a proof.

[gsacks]

First, I'll state up front that I do not download illegal music. I really don't. I mostly just listen to LastFM. Good. That's out of the way. I do, however, understand why so many people do, and it doesn't bother me even a little bit from an ethical stand point. Original copyright laws in the US protected an 'original work' for 20 years. After which time it went into the public domain. That was considered a reasonable amount of time for the artist/author/publisher to recoup the cost from producing their work and make a REASONABLE profit. It was Disney that started lobbying for the extension of copyright protection, and on numerous occasions succeeded in extending it just as it was about to expire on "steamboat willy" and Mickey Mouse. We should go back to the 20 year limit. Piracy today only illustrates how ridiculously inexpensive the marginal cost of each extra copy of a work has become. The profits today are NOT reasonable. Even if all that money went to the artist it would be unreasonable. But the fact that most of it it goes into corporate pockets makes it just that much more outrageous. And before anyone calls me anti-capitalist/free market, let me say this: We do not have a free market in the US. That is a fallacy. Our markets are highly regulated already and we subsidize lots a huge industries. We already have a socialist economic policy. It is just tilted towards the large corporations instead of the general public.

So, in regards to this newest policy of the RIAA. It will fail. It will fail because of the mass of people who see that paying even $1 per song or $12 per album of their hard earned money is adding up to sums that are unconscionable. So they will find a way around it.

[Willie Winkie]

Yes, I can just just see ISP's booting paying customers over this nonsense in this current economic climate. Comcast is bleeding subs to Verizon and they are going to lose more in defense of the record industry? I don't think so! Sorry record industry, but your ability to monopolize music ended with the Napster injunction. Very, smart people are working very hard to make sure that digital data continues to flow unimpeded. Sorry.