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December 16, 2008 9:54 PM PST

New York considers taxing iTunes downloads

by Greg Sandoval

New York wants a share of iTunes' money.

The state is staring at a $15.4 billion deficit so Gov. David Paterson is proposing an "iPod tax" as part of his state budget. Under the plan, New York would charge state and local sales tax for "digitally delivered entertainment services," according to a story in The New York Daily News.

That includes e-books downloaded to Amazon's Kindle as well as for the digital songs obtained from Apple's iTunes. If the state legislature passes the governor's plan, the price of digital content for New Yorkers is sure to go up. The tax would also apply to sporting events, movie tickets, taxis, and satellite TV and radio.

Wow. To some Manhattan residents, Hoboken, N.J., may be looking better all the time. But wait, New Jersey is among the 17 states that already tax downloads, according to my colleague Stephanie Condon. She wrote back in August that states taxing digital entertainment include Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, New Mexico, Texas, and Washington.

California and Wisconsin considered similar proposals, but they were defeated. Tech industry groups like NetChoice, which counts eBay, AOL, and Yahoo as members, have been lobbying against the rise in so-called iTaxes.

Greg Sandoval covers media and digital entertainment for CNET News. He is a former reporter for The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times. E-mail Greg, or follow him on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sandoCNET.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) (35 Comments)
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by amaechi December 16, 2008 10:11 PM PST
I've been taxed on itunes downloads--in Massachusetts every since I can remember. Doesn't Apple tax everything it sells since it has a presence in every state?
Reply to this comment
by sharmajunior December 16, 2008 10:44 PM PST
That is true. A company that has a presence in any state is taxable whether in store or online.

New York is just gonna do it coz its low on cash. It will use every measure to gain revenue.
by Topspin14 December 17, 2008 12:03 AM PST
Pretty sure Massachusetts does not tax digital downloads. But, you can check. They def didn't in 2006 and I can't find any stories about them doing it since.

http://news.cnet.com/The-tax-man-cometh-after-iTunes/2009-1022_3-6059914.html
by Topspin14 December 17, 2008 12:04 AM PST
"We do not tax downloads of digital goods; we consider it information, and we don't tax information."

- Tim Connelly, spokesman, Massachusetts Department of Revenue
by Topspin14 December 17, 2008 12:06 AM PST
See also http://www.contentagenda.com/article/CA6586714.html

No tax in Mass as of August 2008.
by Perry_Clease December 17, 2008 5:07 AM PST
Apple, or any other retailer, doesn't charge a tax, governments do that.
by aka_tripleB December 16, 2008 10:12 PM PST
What a way to drive people back to P2P.
Reply to this comment
by aka_tripleB December 16, 2008 10:13 PM PST
What a way to drive people back to P2P.
Reply to this comment
by aka_tripleB December 16, 2008 10:14 PM PST
What a way to drive people back to P2P.
Reply to this comment
by humanssssss December 16, 2008 11:09 PM PST
What is the tax rate in Arizona? 12%? What about Colorado? 24%?

The state government is getting a nice cut for doing basically nothing.
Reply to this comment
by ckh1272 December 17, 2008 2:11 AM PST
I don't know about Colorado, but the sales tax in Arizona is 8.75%. Much ado about nothing, if you ask me.
by Penguinisto December 17, 2008 8:00 AM PST
The sales tax rate here in Oregon is a big fat 0%.
by Vegaman_Dan December 17, 2008 8:15 AM PST
Penguinisto wrote:

"The sales tax rate here in Oregon is a big fat 0%. "

You make up for it by the state income tax instead. Between being taxed on how much I make versus how much I spend, I'd rather go with a sales tax. That's my choice to make then by what I choose to purchase.

Unfortunately you don't get a choice in the matter. Each state has their own setup.
by Penguinisto December 17, 2008 8:27 AM PST
@ Dan:

Actually, we don't. My income tax rates here are pretty low compared to neighboring Utah and California (especially California!). Property taxes are just a small bit higher than what I was used to seeing in Utah (but still lower than California).

Washington (where you live, IIRC) has no income tax, correct? You get to make up for that in some pretty heavy sales taxes, gov't registration fees (I re-up my car license plates once every two years - how much does it cost you each year to re-do yours?), road taxes, property taxes, etc etc.

Personally, I like the no-sales-tax thing. It avoids penalizing the poor and middle-class just for buying stuff they need (groceries, a car, etc).

/P
by jmcintire December 16, 2008 11:41 PM PST
What a way to drive people back to P2P.
Reply to this comment
by SixVodkas December 17, 2008 12:06 AM PST
If there's one thing I wish Americans could do as well as the French, it'd be to learn to say "No".

Additional taxes levied on sporting events, movie tickets, taxis, and satellite TV and radio?

Stop buying them for one week and see how the politicians react!

*sigh*

Unfortunately, Americans simply sit on their couches, drinking soda, eating chips and getting fat(ter), dumb(er) and happier while government rakes them over the coals.
Reply to this comment
by oassaf December 17, 2008 12:19 AM PST
Although I am Canadian and live in the lowest taxed province (5%!) I do not think its completely absurd for a government to charge taxes on online digital sales. Movie tickets I understand because the tax is built into the price listed at the box office, so adding a double tax there would make no sense. But are taxes built into iTunes and Amazon downloads? If not then the government has full right to tax them, if Apple is paying the tax on those sales then they have full right to charge them.
As for the government getting a nice cut for doing absolutely nothing, those taxes pay for your schools, highways, hospitals, wars, civil servants, etc. and it seems by them not charging them on digital downloads it seems as if it was more of them being nice to promote something new, just like corporate tax cuts to promote expansion into certain areas. Yes its more painful when its taken out on teh average joe, but like SixVodkas said, unless you want to become like the French and hit the streets in protest you are stuck with it.
If more time was spent observing the french rather then hating their fries you would have noticed they are great at getting what they want from their politicians. try taking away a smoking break in that country and see what happens.
Reply to this comment
by Boomstickedition December 17, 2008 12:32 AM PST
What a way to drive people to using Amazon.com for MP3's. :)
Reply to this comment
by oassaf December 17, 2008 1:01 AM PST
It would tax all online digital retailers in the state...including Amazon :)
by Universal_Indie_Records December 17, 2008 7:26 AM PST
Wow!!! Did he really think they were just taxing itunes????
by oassaf December 17, 2008 9:44 AM PST
I think he did!
by tektaktyks December 17, 2008 3:13 AM PST
they should tax the "left click"...
Reply to this comment
by sjsutton December 17, 2008 3:18 AM PST
According to my iTunes receipts, I am already being charged tax in New York State for digital downloads. It goes as far back as August.
Reply to this comment
by pjhenry1216 December 17, 2008 7:47 AM PST
Well, there's a sales tax in most states (since Apple has a presence in most states), so this may be an additional download tax on top of it.
by sjsutton December 17, 2008 9:30 AM PST
The sales tax that they have been charging now is somewhat recent. I would've thought Apple had offices in NY state for sometime now.
I'll pay the sales tax in NYS for my digital download, but refuse to pay any additional tax. The state is already taxing cigarettes by about 100%, so I think the next logical product to overtax is alcohol. Especially in times likes these (when alcohol consumption is up), the state can pull in some additional revenue.
by John Howell December 17, 2008 3:21 AM PST
Now this is intersting, how do you tax something free. Like Hulu? Or how are you going to tax local US resident buying from an over seas site?
Instead of Amazon.com, they just buy from amazon.uk.
How are they going to stop you goign through a proxy to make your transation appear to come from out of state?
Reply to this comment
by Magallanes December 17, 2008 6:35 AM PST
I have the same question.

If i buy a physic product (for example a dvd-box), then "somebody" can define that i live in a specific state/country using my dest address.
But for a virtual product is different, you can buy a virtual product (such download a movie) using a UK account and downloading inside USA.
by Thomas, David December 17, 2008 3:24 AM PST
To be clear, just so everyone understands. Taxes, for the sake of taxes, is wrong, no matter how you slice it. So what, the budget is out of wack, the citizens are having a much harder time. I guarantee you there was more than enough funds at one point. If New York proposes to burden any of the costs of the internet infrastructure in a major way, then they should tax then, and only then.

Otherwise, "Oh look, there's a fly on the moon! ... Let's tax that!"
Reply to this comment
by Magallanes December 17, 2008 6:30 AM PST
how are you taxed?.

a) You are taxed by the geolocation where you are downloading the stuff.
or
b) you are taxed by the registration location (or bank address).

if a), then, can you use a proxy ?.
if b), then can you ask for a bank account in another state?.
Reply to this comment
by Penguinisto December 17, 2008 8:03 AM PST
Credit cards are verified by billing address. The rest, as they say, is easy.
by Larsd01 December 17, 2008 11:25 AM PST
A lot of US companies require that you have a US shipping address and that your credit card has a US billing address. Canadians have, for years, purchased goods from the US by getting themselves shipping addresses and billing addresses in the US. All it takes is a friend or relative in the US to ship the actual physical goods to Canada. There is no reason why you could not do the equivalent between States that do or do not charge taxes for online digital purchases.
Reply to this comment
by JonB. December 17, 2008 11:34 AM PST
Have any of the readers on Cnet heard the any of th politicians taking a pay cut or refusing to take a salary increase? In Baltimore the Mayor said they would donate their pay increase to charity, but what they didn't say is anything about resinding automatic pay increases. Face it, the politicans will take care of themselves first, and then put the burden of the majority costs on the back of the public and private sector.
Reply to this comment
by biffhenerson December 17, 2008 11:42 AM PST
Increased Taxes = Bad, Reduced Taxes=Good.
Increased Government=Bad, Reduced Government = Good.
Reply to this comment
by sdicenso December 17, 2008 3:52 PM PST
They just can't leave well enough alone. This for sure will promote piracy, then nobody will make any money. New York needs people in their government that can pull the state out of the hole. Not Caroline kennedy who doesn't have a clue. Her father was president and her uncle is a scumbag senator from Mass. Everybody forget Chappaquiddick. Maybe Obama and Hilary will help.
Reply to this comment
by 3rdalbum December 19, 2008 1:47 AM PST
Do iTunes songs cost more in states where they are taxed?

I don't remember reading about higher prices in some states, so if New York taxes iTunes downloads then it probably won't affect us, unless Apple decides to increase prices for everybody.
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