Beyond Binary

It's been a year since Bill Gates left full-time work at Microsoft, but he's found plenty to keep him busy.

In between trying to eradicate polio, tame malaria, and fix the broken U.S. education system, Gates has managed to fulfill a dream of taking some classic physics lectures and making them available free over the Web. The lectures, done in 1964 by noted scientist (and Manhattan Project collaborator) Richard Feynman, take notions such as gravity and explains how they work and the broad implications they have in understanding the ways of the universe.

Gates first saw the series of lectures 20 years ago on vacation and dreamed of being able to make them broadly available. After spending years tracking down the rights--and spending some of his personal fortune--Gates has done just that. Tapping his colleagues in Redmond to create interactive software to accompany the videos, Gates is making the collection available free from the Microsoft Research Web site.

Gates said that he hoped his action would serve as a model for taking great educational content and making it broadly available for free.

"When a lecture is presented as well as this, it draws more people in to understanding science." Gates told CNET News. "And over time I hope there's more like this."

In a wide-ranging interview, Gates also reflected on the changes at Microsoft, spill the beans on the expansive vision for Product Natal and shared his thoughts on Google's just-introduced Chrome OS. Here's an edited transcript of that interview.

You first saw these videos on a vacation 20 years ago. Do you want to talk a little bit about how that happened, and what your reaction was to seeing those lectures?
Gates: Yes. I was in a period where, in order to learn new science, thought it would be a fun thing to see what films there were, and we went to some university catalogs, including University of California system had a catalog of films, and got a lot of health, biology, physics type films--those are those metal cans with big reels--and then we had a projector in a room that we made dark. So even (during) the day, you could thread these films. And there were a lot of interesting ones, but these Feynman lectures that he gave at Cornell...those were just unbelievably good.

After that, I got them put onto videotape, and I got rights to make a small number of videotapes. It was VHS tape at the time, and send it around to some friends who might be interested. But I always had in the back of my mind that it was kind of a crime that there wasn't broad availability of those things, particularly for young people thinking about science.

And so I sort of had this project in mind, and (have been) making some progress in understanding who had the rights, and eventually doing deals for the rights, and then getting these things scanned, and then getting Microsoft Research agreed to host the stuff and create some innovative software around it, which Curtis (Wong) has run. It's taken a long time, but with lots of PCs and the Internet, and my willingness to spend some money, now these things are just going to be out there.

What do you hope people get out of these videos? Who is your ideal audience for them?
Gates: Well, I didn't get to see these until I was about 30, and so I would love it if lots of young people saw them, and got a sense of the fun, and how science works, and what's complicated, and what's not. I hope some people who teach science are inspired by the way that Feynman managed to make it interesting without giving up the depth of how it works.

With super-high-quality material like this up there for free, I hope people see the potential, and that they'd benefit from this one in particular, and then it starts to push forward the idea if someone is great lecturer, then their work should be out there and available.

I've heard you talk about the way community college really should change, and really what we should be doing for some of these subjects that are somewhat universal is taking really the best explanations, the best lectures out there, and making those broadly available, and then focusing sort of the local learning around discussion and different sorts of things.
Gates: That's right. Education, particularly if you've got motivated students, the idea of specializing in the brilliant lecture and text being done in a very high-quality way, and shared by everyone, and then the sort of lab and discussion piece that's a different thing that you pick people who are very good at that.

Technology brings more to the lecture availability, in terms of sharing best practices and letting somebody have more resources to do amazing lectures. So, you'd hope that some schools would be open minded to this fitting in, and making them more effective.

But, you've also got this huge set of people who like to teach themselves and like to learn things, and yet find science kind of daunting. And when a lecture is presented as well as this, it draws more people in to understanding science. And over time I hope there's more like this, including some about science stuff that's changed since the time these were done.

How big an impact do you think these types of things can have in terms of the overall problem of getting people interested in math and science? Is this type of thing enough, or do we really need to fundamentally do more, younger?
Gates: Well, certainly in fifth grade through senior year, most students aren't yet motivated to want to learn a lot in general, and particularly about science and math. The big impact is anything that can help teachers do a better job, where teachers can either see other teachers doing it super-well, or they might incorporate some online things into the classroom experience. As you get older, and you've got people who are motivated more clearly, then it shifts where these online lectures can be a huge part of learning.

That's where Feynman with his clarity of explanation and simplicity of explanation, and love of the subject, and humor around it is such an exemplar.

You mentioned that you didn't get to see these until you were in your 30s. If you had seen them earlier in your career, maybe before you decided to start Microsoft, do you think you might have headed in a different direction?
Gates: I'm not sure. I've always liked physics, but I also want the equivalent lectures to be out there for biology, and computer science, and chemistry. Everybody has a level where you can bring in their interest. I mean, people care about animals, and disease, and food, but many of the sciences are so abstract, and the amount of things you have to learn before you start connecting to those practical issues can be very daunting. And yet with a teacher like Feynman they're out there in different fields, it's just that we haven't had a way to magnify their excellence, and make it broadly available.

One of the points that's made in the lectures is this idea that from the discovery of gravity there's basically been since then 400 years of just an avalanche of discoveries, and he sort of puts forth this notion of continuous progress. And I'm curious, do you see that having continued, or have we seen limits to sort of some of the full understanding that the basic sciences can give us? Are there things that are beyond sort of what basic science can teach us?
Gates: We're learning more about basic science today by a huge amount than ever before. You just take understanding materials, why they break, why they're strong, how you engineer them to have various properties, and a lot of that was black magic. And it's only now that we're able to say, okay, when we want to make batteries that charge really fast, okay, how do you make something with a lot of surface area that doesn't degrade.

Anyway, in material science, or basic medical things, or basic things about physics that are going to be important for cheap energy as just one example, this is the most interesting time. That's why it's partly an irony that you're not getting the best and the brightest particularly native born to go into science and math. And so you've got to look back and say, what is it we're doing about making it daunting, or abstract that holds that back so much.

There's an American physicist, Fritjof Capra, (who) wrote a lot of books in the '70s on ecology, and the limits of Cartesian thinking. Basically his thing was that by focusing on sort of the Cartesian reductionist approach to things that prioritizes sort of looking at the small parts--that type of thinking has contributed to not getting as deep an understanding of things like ecology, and really complex systems. Is that what's caused us to get into some of the problems we have, or do you think it's more just these are tough choices and require conserving, and things that are kind of hard for us as humans to do?
Gates: Well, the tough situation that we're in is that we have electricity, we have medicines, we have vaccines, those were all due to scientific understanding. And as we get new materials, new batteries, solar, nuclear energy that don't cause environmental things, it will be because of these scientific understandings. So, I think the incredible improvement in living standards, and life expectancy, and literacy, and all those things really do come back to the advanced scientific understanding. And when people look at history, that's the one thing that they always undervalue is how scientific progress has allowed us to do those big things.

It's true that as you go forward, you tackle more complex problems, but the tools of modeling and simulation and getting a lot of people who are mainly in politics, but know enough about science to be in the discussion, that's important. You know, there was a book written called Physics for Future Presidents, which took some of the basic notions of energy density and costs and dangers about radiation or nuclear weapons, and put that into a fairly straightforward thing.

We do have a problem if we don't draw a large part of society into at least some understanding of science and the tools of science. And so, having great lectures online, I have several goals--improve education, get more people into the sciences in a deep way, but also get a broader set of people into sciences in even a modest way.

When we talked a year ago, I asked kind of what you anticipated your life would be like once you stopped being at Microsoft full time. Now a year later what are some of your observations on how your time is different, and maybe what are some things that you hadn't expected about where you are today?
Gates: Well, the foundation work is very rewarding, and there's a lot of interesting complexity that comes with it. I'm pretty much doing what I expected to be doing, which is very different than what I was doing before my job changed. I do have about 20 percent involvement with Microsoft, where topics like their future of Office, of search, or various things that Steve (Ballmer) asked me to look into and help out with come along. So that's developed pretty much like I would expect.

It will be interesting as I get a year or two more out, and I know the activities and the people (at Microsoft) a little bit less, you know, how Steve and I make sure I stay fresh and connected and things like that. So, maybe the first year was always going to be the easiest. And it's at the level that we planned it for, which is giving me a massive amount of additional time to meet with scientists and go to the developing world and meet with various government partners.

For the last three months, up until two weeks ago, I was entirely in Europe, and actually based out of there. Our family had moved over there. So, I was up at Cambridge and Oxford. For that period I was particularly focused on the science and partners, both governments and companies, and things that happen to be based in Europe. That's done, but the kind of things I was doing there are exactly what my schedule looks like over the next six months, where I'm in India, I'm in Africa, going to meet with companies, doing things, meeting with scientists. So, you know, I'm thrilled by the foundation work, and fortunately I have Jeff Raikes running the foundation as CEO, and so my role at the foundation is a lot like it was in the period where Steve had already taken over as CEO, where I got to be more on the research side, the breakthroughs, the new ideas.

And you've been doing some stuff with Intellectual Ventures. I know every time you show up on a patent application that, folks get interested in what you're looking at, whether it's stopping hurricanes, or beer kegs, or what-have-you.
Gates: That's right. We're going to make the cows that don't fart. You name it, we've got it under control.

That's been really exciting to take this idea of gathering top scientists from a broad set of areas and think about problems that can be solved. And in the case of the foundation, you know, Nathan (Myhrvold) has used that ability to convene great scientists to look at things like how do you deliver vaccines without having to use as many refrigerators, or how do you pasteurize milk in a better way, some very interesting things. And then I also sit down with that group when they're looking at their rich world applications, including things around energy, and one of those has actually led to creating a company called TerraPower, which is focused on a new, very radically improved nuclear power plant design, which is a hard thing to get done, but extremely valuable if it comes through.

I'm curious of your thoughts of how Microsoft is doing as a company since you left. I'd also be remiss if I didn't ask you what you thought of Google's efforts to get in the OS arena.
Gates: Well, just to do the second part very succinctly, there's many, many forms of Linux operating systems out there, and packaged in different ways, and booted in different ways. So I don't know anything in particular about what Google is doing. But, in some ways I'm surprised people are acting like there's something new. I mean, you've got Android running on Netbooks; it's got a browser in it. In any case, you should make them be concrete about what they're doing. It is kind of a typical thing. When Google is doing anything it gets this--the more vague they are, the more interesting it is.

I guess there is the notion, though, and I know Microsoft Research had been looking at it, too, of whether the browser, because it's become so central to so much of our work, needs to take on more operating system-like characteristics.
Gates: It just shows the word browser has become a truly meaningless word. Anyway, what's a browser, what's not a browser? If you're playing a movie, is that a browser or not a browser? If you're doing annotations is that a browser or not a browser? If you're editing text, is that a browser or not a browser? In large part it's more an abuse of terminology than a real change.

What about on the question of how Microsoft is doing?
Gates: I'm always the one who thinks, gosh, why isn't Microsoft doing even more, because that's been my mindset, let's move fast, do new things very quickly. But, you have to say, whether it's Windows 7 that is a really excellent piece of work. I'd go so far as to say both compared to other operating systems, and compared to other generations of Windows, it's an extremely nice piece of work.

What they're doing in new versions of Office--I guess they showed a little bit of how the Web piece fits into it recently, but there's a lot about the new version that will get talked about in the next nine months or so. The work on search, where people see Bing as a nice piece of work, really see us in the game, hiring really top people, and willing to try to do things some different ways.

The part of Microsoft I stay up to date the most on is probably the research group. I was over at the Cambridge lab a few weeks ago, over at the India lab as part of a trip I take this month, and that's really the sort of crown jewel in terms of always feeding neat new things into Microsoft. I'd say a cool example of that, that you'll see is kind of stunning, in a little over a year, is this (depth-sensing) camera thing... Not just for games, but for media consumption as a whole... If they connect it up to Windows PCs for interacting in terms of meetings, and collaboration, and communication, you put the camera in now it's a cool thing, and it's just an example where Microsoft research did the original stuff to show, with the depth information, something great could be done. Then both the Xbox guys and the Windows guys latched onto that and now even since they latched onto it the idea of how it can be used in the office is getting much more concrete, and is pretty exciting.

So Microsoft is a very innovative company, but obviously in a hyper-competitive field, which is what makes it such a great field.

I'm not sure I understood that last point. You're talking about cameras, you were talking about like the depth sensing cameras that are in Natal?
Gates: Yes, exactly, Natal. The software libraries and applications we're doing around Natal.

And we'll basically see that in more than gaming? We'll see it in other scenarios, too?
Gates: Well, I think the value is as great for if you're in the home, as you want to manage your movies, music, home system type stuff, it's very cool there. And I think there's incredible value as we use that in the office connected to a Windows PC. So Microsoft research and the product groups have a lot going on there, because you can use the cost reduction that will take place over the years to say, "Why shouldn't that be in most office environments?"

Bill Gates may not be showing up at Microsoft headquarters every day, but he's certainly staying busy.

In an interview with CNET News, the Microsoft chairman talks about just a few of the things on his plate, including an effort to make a series of classic physics lectures available for free over the Internet.

Although it's unlikely to garner the audience of say, a sneezing panda, Gates said that putting great educational content online is an important part of getting people interested in science.

"When a lecture is presented as well as this, it draws more people in to understanding science." Gates said.

Gates also took on topics such as Google's Chrome OS and what things at Microsoft still have him excited.

One of those things, he said, is Project Natal, the technology shown at E3 this year that uses depth-sensing cameras to allow one's own hands to act as a video game controller. But Natal is not just for games, Gates said, noting that the technology is also being used by the Windows team, which sees uses both for controlling media at home as well as in a number of workplace scenarios.

"If they connect it up to Windows PCs for interacting in terms of meetings, and collaboration, and communication, you put the camera in now it's a cool thing, and it's just an example where Microsoft research did the original stuff to show, with the depth information, something great could be done," Gates said. "Then both the Xbox guys and the Windows guys latched onto that and now even since they latched onto it the idea of how it can be used in the office is getting much more concrete, and is pretty exciting."

Microsoft doesn't just want to bring gesture recognition to the Xbox with Project Natal. It also wants the technology in Windows, according to a very good source--Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates.

In an interview with CNET News this week, Gates talked about a world in which depth-sensing cameras such as the one allow people to control their PCs, game devices, and televisions. (See a video from the E3 conference below.)

Speaking about all of the technology Microsoft has cooking in its labs, Gates said: "I'd say a cool example of that, that you'll see... in a little over a year, is this (depth) camera thing." Gates said it was not just for games, "but for media consumption as a whole, and even if they connect it up to Windows PCs for interacting in terms of meetings, and collaboration, and communication."

Gates said it is an example where the project started in Microsoft research but is now being commercialized by both the Xbox and Windows units. "Both the Xbox guys and the Windows guys latched onto that and now even since they latched onto it the idea of how it can be used in the office is getting much more concrete, and is pretty exciting."

Using your body to control devices makes a lot of sense, Gates said. "I think the value is as great for if you're in the home, as you want to manage your movies, music, home system type stuff, it's very cool there," he said. "And I think there's incredible value as we use that in the office connected to a Windows PC. So Microsoft research and the product groups have a lot going on there, because you can use the cost reduction that will take place over the years to say, why shouldn't that be in most office environments."

Gates actually dropped the first hint of Natal during his joint appearance with Steve Jobs at the D: All Things Digital conference in 2007

"Imagine a game machine where you're just going to pick up the bat and swing it, or the tennis racket and swing it," Gates said.

Moderators Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher mocked Gates, saying such a technology already exists and it's called the Wii. But Gates disagreed. "No, that's not it. You can't pick up your tennis racket."

He later added, "You can't sit there with your friends and do those natural things," he said. "That's a 3D positional device. This is video recognition. This is a camera seeing what's going on."

To Bill Gates, Google's Chrome OS looks a lot like a familiar foe: Linux.

"There's many, many forms of Linux operating systems out there and packaged in different ways and booted in different ways," Gates said in an interview with CNET News this week. "In some ways I am surprised people are acting like there's something new. I mean, you've got Android running on Netbooks. It's got a browser in it."

Gates said it was hard to really say much about Chrome OS, since Google has said so little about how it will actually work.

"The more vague they are, the more interesting it is," he said.

As for the notion that the browser needs to act more like an OS, he noted that the browser has already become an extremely broad concept, with all of the plug-ins and other things that are now done inside a browser.

"It just shows the word browser has become a truly meaningless word," Gates said. "What's a browser? What's not a browser? If you're playing a movie, is that a browser or not a browser? If you're doing annotations, is that a browser? If you're editing text, is that a browser or not a browser? In large part, it's more an abuse of terminology than a real change."

Meanwhile, CEO Steve Ballmer suggested on Tuesday that Windows, rather than a browser-centric OS was the right approach. To bolster his argument, Ballmer noted that half of PC use today is spent doing work outside the browser.

"We don't need a new operating system," Ballmer said Tuesday, as part of his keynote at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference in New Orleans. "What we do need to do is to continue to evolve Windows, Windows Applications, IE (Internet Explorer), the way IE works in totality with Windows and how we build applications like Office...and we need to make sure we can bring our customers and partners with us."

Ballmer and Gates also stressed the fact that Google now has two operating systems--Chrome OS and Android. Ballmer noted that Microsoft learned with the separate Windows 95 for consumers and Windows NT for businesses that having two operating systems isn't necessarily a positive thing.

"The last time I checked you don't need two client operating systems," he said. "It's good to have one."

Ballmer and Gates also echoed the note Business Division President Stephen Elop sounded in an interview with CNET News last week--that Microsoft really doesn't know what Chrome OS will look like.

"Who knows what this thing is?" Ballmer said.

Google co-founder Sergey Brin, a frequent Croc wearer, is now indirectly benefitting Bill Gates' bank account each time he adds a new shade to his wardrobe.

(Credit: Stephen Shankland/CNET Networks)

It's always interesting to note where Bill Gates is putting his money.

Fortunately, his Cascade Investment arm details his largest holdings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. According to regulatory filings made on Wednesday, Gates' Cascade Investment arm (along with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) now holds, among other things, a 5.2 percent stake in Eastman Kodak.

It's not the first photography-related investment for Gates, who owns stock photography company Corbis.

Barron's reporter Eric Savitz also noted Gates holdings in companies ranging from $1.28 billion worth of Canadian National Railway to $391 million worth of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. TechFlash's Todd Bishop notes that list of holdings also includes a $3.7 million stake in plastic shoemaker Crocs.

Companies often get a mention just because Gates is taking a stake in them. Cascade's investments have included algae fuel maker Sapphire Energy and LGBT (lesbian gay bisexual transgender) publisher PlanetOut, although that company has hit on tough financial times and is in the process of merging with two former rivals.

Although the economic crisis won't change his focus on global health and U.S. education, Bill Gates said the woes are making his work harder.

In particular, Gates said that beyond the prospect of lower aid budgets, the biggest factor in reducing disease and hunger is actually the underlying growth in the area in question--something that is now stalled globally.

Bill and Melinda Gates visit demonstration plots at the IITA Research Station in Abuja, Nigeria in October 2006.

(Credit: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation)

"Economic success has been this phenomenal thing," Gates said. "Whenever that clock is running slower or even briefly goes into a period where it is going back, it is really a very negative thing. It blocks a lot that is important."

Gates' comments came during a conference call with reporters, following the release of a public letter on the foundation's progress.

For 2009, the Gates Foundation is increasing its spending, and Gates said he would encourage other foundations to see if they can do the same amid growing need. That said, he doesn't see his foundation being able to increase its budget next year, if its assets continue to decline.

"Certainly, if the market (in 2009 is) as bad (as it was) in 2008, we would not increase, going into (2010)," Gates said. "We have the same uncertainty that everyone else does."

As for overall priorities, Gates defended the areas his foundation has worked on, such as focusing on diseases that affect the world's poorest populations. He noted that it remains the case that there are opportunities to save a human life for less than $100 a year.

"To me, that's very compelling," Gates said. "That investment should be made. I don't think the economic crisis changes that."

Gates was clear that he has no crystal ball, but he said it will likely take years for the economy to correct itself after years of unsustainably high spending rates, particularly in the United States.

"If you have been on a spending binge, it can take a number of years before those ratios come back in," he said.

Although he said things are different now than in the Great Depression, he also noted that there are many factors putting pressure on the economy, many of which feed on one another.

"If Company A lays people off, that impacts...Company B," Gates said. "We are just seeing impact after impact, as that rolls through the economy."

Gates' own company, Microsoft, announced its first-ever companywide layoffs on Thursday, saying it planned to cut up to 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months, with 1,400 of the job cuts being made last week.

In a video on the foundation's Web site, Gates talked a little about the overlap he has found between his two jobs.

"I didn't know if the foundation would be as magical," Gates said. "Those same key elements are there--the ability to do big breakthroughs--absolutely."

In a public letter on Monday, Bill Gates took stock of both the economy and his foundation's efforts to improve education and combat global health issues.

As for the economy, Gates said that he hoped to be able to look back two years from now and say that the crisis "was something that was short-term and that has passed" but said that he expects "the effects of the crisis will last beyond that."

Bill and Melinda Gates, co-chairs of the foundation that bears their names, get a look at a cassava root at a research station in Abuja, Nigeria, in October 2006.

(Credit: Courtesy of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation / Prashant Panjiar)

The economic woes took their toll on the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which saw its assets drop by a fifth last year, Gates said in the letter (PDF). Still, the group plans to up its 2009 spending to $3.8 billion, a full 7 percent of the foundation's assets and up from $3.3 billion in 2008. (The IRS requires foundations to spend 5 percent of their assets each year.)

"The global recession and market turmoil are forcing everyone to take a hard look at their plans," Gates wrote in the letter. "Businesses and consumers are cutting back on spending. The 50-year-long credit expansion that fueled high spending levels, particularly in the United States, has turned into a credit contraction."

That, he said, has led governments to situations where they have budget shortfalls at the same time there is an increased demand for government services.

The letter, which Gates said will become a yearly tradition, comes about six months after Gates left full-time work at Microsoft to devote more time to the foundation. The letter also goes into detail on the foundation's work in both global health and education, pointing to successes and failures on each front.

Gates praised the Obama administration for maintaining its commitment to education at the same time tax revenues are coming up short and there is a need for short-term stimulus to the economy. He also called for continued foreign aid.

"I hope the United States and other rich countries will continue to increase their aid, and when I meet with political leaders I encourage them to do so," Gates said, in particular praising Britain's Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Gates will get a chance to bend the ear of the world's political elite later this week at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Government leaders expected at Davos include Brown, who succeeded Blair as Britain's prime minister; Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao; Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin; German Chancellor Angela Merkel; and Japanese Premier Taro Aso.

"Although it will be difficult to keep aid-related issues on the front page during this crisis, we need to meet the challenge by making sure the success stories are told and making sure that inequity that is out of sight, is not out of mind," Gates wrote.

Former Seattle Post-Intelligencer reporter Todd Bishop launched his new Web site on Wednesday with an interesting post on what Bill Gates is up to.

BGC3's logo, as filed with the Trademark Office.

The software icon and philanthropist is affiliated with something called BGC3, essentially the name given to Gates' non-Microsoft, non-foundation office. Bishop's source says it's not a commercial venture, while the company's trademark application covers "think tank services."

The company applied for a trademark on the BGC3 name and a C3 logo on September 29. Just what the company plans to do with that trademark remains to be seen.

Gates told CNET News as he was retiring from full-time Microsoft work in June that he planned to open a separate office, though at the time, he didn't detail plans for a new company.

The BGC3 report marks a good start for Bishop, whose TechFlash site officially launched Wednesday. Bishop and John Cook both left the Seattle P-I last month to set up the new site, which is backed by the Puget Sound Business Journal.

SANTA CLARA, Calif.-- Microsoft's Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer were both making speeches Thursday, but to widely different audiences.

Gates, the company's chairman who has stepped away from full-time Microsoft work, was at the United Nations to discuss global progress in the fight against poverty, while chief executive Ballmer is here to address the Churchill Club, a collection of Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and executives.

Gates was before the UN wearing his hat as head of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and to speak on where the world stands versus the Millenium Development Goals. Although the metrics show the world ahead in some areas and trailing in others, Gates told the assembly of world leaders that the important thing is that there are now measurable goals for fighting poverty.

"I love the Millennium Development Goals," he said, according to remarks posted on the Gates Foundation Web site. "I think they are the best idea for focusing the world on fighting global poverty that I've ever seen...Thanks to these goals, not only UN agencies but the world at large knows the key measures of poverty, hunger, health, and education. Some of the numbers are good and some are not. But the fact that the world is focusing on the numbers is excellent."

As for Ballmer, he is speaking on stage in a conversation with Silicon Valley venture capitalist Ann Winblad. That talk starts in about an hour, so check back to CNET News and Beyond Binary for coverage then.