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January 27, 2008 8:30 AM PST

Sales of HD DVD players plunge after Warner move

  • 76 comments

What was a 50-50 market split in 2007 for the high-definition players shifted sharply in Blu-ray's favor in the new year.
The New York Times

The story "Sales of HD DVD players plunge after Warner move" published January 27, 2008 at 8:30 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (76 Comments)
Toshiba is in denial
by gwhitham January 27, 2008 9:23 PM PST
Obviously there must be a lot of idiots out there in la la land if anyone believes for a minute that HD DVD is even remotely here to stay. I could see HD DVD hanging around only for a short while longer. It certainly will not be all that profitable for Toshiba continuing to manufacture HD DVD players or recorders for that matter. If Toshiba wants any slice of the pie, they should just licence the technology for almost nothing. Then maybe they might have a chance that some companies will put BluRay and HDDVD together on one machine. Oh yeah..... there is a machine out there that does that..... simply hasn't caught on though. Too Bad. I don't own a HD or BluRay DVD but when I do.... it will be BluRay. What would be the point of going with any other format?
Reply to this comment
Toshiba is not in denial
by ralfthedog January 27, 2008 9:33 PM PST
They know exactly what is going on. They are just getting every last cent out of their production line before it is converted to Blue-ray.

PS. Please try to tell me that they are not ramping down production.

PPS. Please try to tell me that they are not in talks with Sony for the rights to produce a Blue-ray player.

PPPS. Please tell me that Sony will not give them very good terms just to end this silly war.
Toshiba is in denial
by gwhitham January 27, 2008 9:23 PM PST
Obviously there must be a lot of idiots out there in la la land if anyone believes for a minute that HD DVD is even remotely here to stay. I could see HD DVD hanging around only for a short while longer. It certainly will not be all that profitable for Toshiba continuing to manufacture HD DVD players or recorders for that matter. If Toshiba wants any slice of the pie, they should just licence the technology for almost nothing. Then maybe they might have a chance that some companies will put BluRay and HDDVD together on one machine. Oh yeah..... there is a machine out there that does that..... simply hasn't caught on though. Too Bad. I don't own a HD or BluRay DVD but when I do.... it will be BluRay. What would be the point of going with any other format?
Reply to this comment
Toshiba is not in denial
by ralfthedog January 27, 2008 9:33 PM PST
They know exactly what is going on. They are just getting every last cent out of their production line before it is converted to Blue-ray.

PS. Please try to tell me that they are not ramping down production.

PPS. Please try to tell me that they are not in talks with Sony for the rights to produce a Blue-ray player.

PPPS. Please tell me that Sony will not give them very good terms just to end this silly war.
Why Blue-ray will win this format war
by jimcbr January 27, 2008 9:31 PM PST
If this was just a video format, then I would say that HD-DVD had a chance. But given the fact that these drives are used to store data on a computer, Blue-ray just beats HD-DVD in that area hands down. Also, I hate Microsoft, so the fact that they're supporting HD-DVD actually makes me glad that this format is doomed to fail.
Reply to this comment
Blue-ray will not win this format war
by ralfthedog January 27, 2008 9:36 PM PST
They will not win because they already have.
Love Sony
by vhac January 28, 2008 6:15 AM PST
and their rootkits software, and their built-in features of DRM in blu-ray. While company of HD-DVD camp aren't the saint, however, competition drives prices lower. I sure hope you enjoy it when Sony shove their rootkits down your throat.
I can't imagine...
by fredmenace January 28, 2008 3:38 PM PST
...how anyone could hate Microsoft without hating Sony worse (these days). Unless they're just not paying attention.

Microsoft is kind of obnoxious and clumsy, but Sony has become almost evil to consumers. Used to be a good company, but then were essentially bought out by a content company (which turned out to be about the most consumer-unfriendly of all the content providers out there). The combination has not been nice to a formerly-great consumer electronics company, and downright bad for consumers. There's some hope they'll redeem themselves, but there's not much sign of it yet.
Why Blue-ray will win this format war
by jimcbr January 27, 2008 9:31 PM PST
If this was just a video format, then I would say that HD-DVD had a chance. But given the fact that these drives are used to store data on a computer, Blue-ray just beats HD-DVD in that area hands down. Also, I hate Microsoft, so the fact that they're supporting HD-DVD actually makes me glad that this format is doomed to fail.
Reply to this comment
Blue-ray will not win this format war
by ralfthedog January 27, 2008 9:36 PM PST
They will not win because they already have.
Love Sony
by vhac January 28, 2008 6:15 AM PST
and their rootkits software, and their built-in features of DRM in blu-ray. While company of HD-DVD camp aren't the saint, however, competition drives prices lower. I sure hope you enjoy it when Sony shove their rootkits down your throat.
I can't imagine...
by fredmenace January 28, 2008 3:38 PM PST
...how anyone could hate Microsoft without hating Sony worse (these days). Unless they're just not paying attention.

Microsoft is kind of obnoxious and clumsy, but Sony has become almost evil to consumers. Used to be a good company, but then were essentially bought out by a content company (which turned out to be about the most consumer-unfriendly of all the content providers out there). The combination has not been nice to a formerly-great consumer electronics company, and downright bad for consumers. There's some hope they'll redeem themselves, but there's not much sign of it yet.
Told Ya.
by Penguinisto January 27, 2008 9:56 PM PST
Dead. As in "Betamax".

/P
Reply to this comment
Told Ya.
by Penguinisto January 27, 2008 9:56 PM PST
Dead. As in "Betamax".

/P
Reply to this comment
Is anyone surprised?
by Wookiee-1138 January 27, 2008 10:07 PM PST
???

I didn't think so. Take that, xbots!
Reply to this comment
Is anyone surprised?
by Wookiee-1138 January 27, 2008 10:07 PM PST
???

I didn't think so. Take that, xbots!
Reply to this comment
Childish
by ylla January 27, 2008 10:54 PM PST
I need to stop reading these replies...really...lol - I always hope they'll add something and they always end up being the same thing; blind cheap shots or 15 year old "Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah" postings. BOTH sides fans sound like whiny little children in these posts - no wonder why most consumers don't care about this.
The whole thing sounds like a bunch of grumpy little toddlers trying to justify their toys. People who are interested in finding out about all this just get turned off by these posts.

Now flame away.
Reply to this comment
hahahahah
by bemenaker January 28, 2008 6:12 AM PST
Great post, I feel the same way. :)
Just one question:
by Penguinisto January 28, 2008 4:24 PM PST
...err, what toys? I own neither type of HD player, and have stated as much in previous stories concerning them. It merely feels nice when a prediction comes true.

A second hint: If you actually want to find out about HD video disc types and their merits, I strongly suggest something like arstechnica.com, where you can get something a lot more in-depth. Getting hard decision-influencing tech info off of these forums is like having your medical checkups done by some guy who watches "ER" a lot.

/P
Childish
by ylla January 27, 2008 10:54 PM PST
I need to stop reading these replies...really...lol - I always hope they'll add something and they always end up being the same thing; blind cheap shots or 15 year old "Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah" postings. BOTH sides fans sound like whiny little children in these posts - no wonder why most consumers don't care about this.
The whole thing sounds like a bunch of grumpy little toddlers trying to justify their toys. People who are interested in finding out about all this just get turned off by these posts.

Now flame away.
Reply to this comment
hahahahah
by bemenaker January 28, 2008 6:12 AM PST
Great post, I feel the same way. :)
Just one question:
by Penguinisto January 28, 2008 4:24 PM PST
...err, what toys? I own neither type of HD player, and have stated as much in previous stories concerning them. It merely feels nice when a prediction comes true.

A second hint: If you actually want to find out about HD video disc types and their merits, I strongly suggest something like arstechnica.com, where you can get something a lot more in-depth. Getting hard decision-influencing tech info off of these forums is like having your medical checkups done by some guy who watches "ER" a lot.

/P
Doesn't matter...
by gdawgbuzz January 27, 2008 11:32 PM PST
This "format war" doesn't matter. Who needs a format when memory and bandwidth is so cheap and commonplace? Buy an XBOX 360 and download a movie in HD, who needs discs cluttering up the place when you don't need a player?
Reply to this comment
AMEN, BROTHER (from another mother) !!!
by maples328 January 28, 2008 3:33 PM PST
I agree, downloading will be the future. It would be already if not for the greed of silly stipulations as far as playback ability and time allowed to keep and watch. If the companies used their brains they would see that $0 distribution costs = a lot more profit than manufacturing a physical DVD and physical distribution. Of course the retail stores cringe in horror at this. It's like the gas companies - better technology exists, it's just not in their best intrest for you to have access to it. Ever wonder how many patents have been bought and shelved for $ 1 million to save a $ BILLION dollar profit ?
Download costs far more.
by ralfthedog January 28, 2008 11:24 PM PST
The cost for True high def downloads is far greater than the cost of a disk. Optical media are cheap. Hard drive space and bandwidth are not.

However, on demand disk burning will be coming quite soon. The local big box store will keep many thousands of Blue-ray disks on hard drive. When you want a movie, you pick one from a list, swipe your credit card, and a disk is burned with a proper label and cover.
View all 5 replies
Doesn't matter...
by gdawgbuzz January 27, 2008 11:32 PM PST
This "format war" doesn't matter. Who needs a format when memory and bandwidth is so cheap and commonplace? Buy an XBOX 360 and download a movie in HD, who needs discs cluttering up the place when you don't need a player?
Reply to this comment
AMEN, BROTHER (from another mother) !!!
by maples328 January 28, 2008 3:33 PM PST
I agree, downloading will be the future. It would be already if not for the greed of silly stipulations as far as playback ability and time allowed to keep and watch. If the companies used their brains they would see that $0 distribution costs = a lot more profit than manufacturing a physical DVD and physical distribution. Of course the retail stores cringe in horror at this. It's like the gas companies - better technology exists, it's just not in their best intrest for you to have access to it. Ever wonder how many patents have been bought and shelved for $ 1 million to save a $ BILLION dollar profit ?
Download costs far more.
by ralfthedog January 28, 2008 11:24 PM PST
The cost for True high def downloads is far greater than the cost of a disk. Optical media are cheap. Hard drive space and bandwidth are not.

However, on demand disk burning will be coming quite soon. The local big box store will keep many thousands of Blue-ray disks on hard drive. When you want a movie, you pick one from a list, swipe your credit card, and a disk is burned with a proper label and cover.
View all 5 replies
way off spin
by fredmenace January 28, 2008 3:28 PM PST
Even according to NPD, these numbers are not a sign of a sales trend and are wildly misleading - these were out-of-context numbers with no attached explanation, and leaked without permission. They were never meant to be the basis for a news release precisely because they are likely so spurious as to be wildly misleading, resulting in exactly the situation we are in: headlines and conclusions based on this "news" that are all WRONG.

Among other thigns, it turns out that during this particular week, several major TV manufacturers were giving away FREE Blu Ray players with every TV sold. So the vast majority of these Blu Ray "sales" were not ordinary sales at all. (I'm sure the timing of the giveaway was NOT coincidental and that the leaker was not a neutral party, as the Blu Ray backers want to give the impression in consumers' minds that HD DVD is in a sudden death spiral, even if there's no real basis for such a conclusion.)

One reason that this doesn't really matter is that the studios still backing HD DVD have huge back catalogs that dwarf the total number of titles of the studios backing Blu Ray. Don't forget that studios are not all the same size, and number of studios != number of titles.
Reply to this comment
What studios?
by ralfthedog January 28, 2008 11:17 PM PST
In less than 14 days, two studios will announce that they are going Blue exclusive. The one remaining will switch to support both formats.

By Tax day, Toshiba will no longer support HD DVD.
View all 2 replies
way off spin
by fredmenace January 28, 2008 3:28 PM PST
Even according to NPD, these numbers are not a sign of a sales trend and are wildly misleading - these were out-of-context numbers with no attached explanation, and leaked without permission. They were never meant to be the basis for a news release precisely because they are likely so spurious as to be wildly misleading, resulting in exactly the situation we are in: headlines and conclusions based on this "news" that are all WRONG.

Among other thigns, it turns out that during this particular week, several major TV manufacturers were giving away FREE Blu Ray players with every TV sold. So the vast majority of these Blu Ray "sales" were not ordinary sales at all. (I'm sure the timing of the giveaway was NOT coincidental and that the leaker was not a neutral party, as the Blu Ray backers want to give the impression in consumers' minds that HD DVD is in a sudden death spiral, even if there's no real basis for such a conclusion.)

One reason that this doesn't really matter is that the studios still backing HD DVD have huge back catalogs that dwarf the total number of titles of the studios backing Blu Ray. Don't forget that studios are not all the same size, and number of studios != number of titles.
Reply to this comment
What studios?
by ralfthedog January 28, 2008 11:17 PM PST
In less than 14 days, two studios will announce that they are going Blue exclusive. The one remaining will switch to support both formats.

By Tax day, Toshiba will no longer support HD DVD.
View all 2 replies
Blu-ray: The new VHS
by jrm125 January 29, 2008 1:10 PM PST
Blu-ray has won this format war. It will be the new standard for hard media.

What's next? Who can say?
Reply to this comment
Blu-ray: The new VHS
by jrm125 January 29, 2008 1:10 PM PST
Blu-ray has won this format war. It will be the new standard for hard media.

What's next? Who can say?
Reply to this comment
Please put old movies on BLUE RAY!
by inachu January 29, 2008 6:45 PM PST
I can't find any stor or flea market that sells the movies:
THE KEEP
THE KEEP 2

Some old movies are so hard and retailers clear the shelf of old titles and replace them with spanish ones..... THIS IS NOT MEXICO!
Reply to this comment
They will when the demand is there
by The_Decider January 30, 2008 12:42 PM PST
Blu-Ray might have beat HD-DVD, but is nowhere near the market penetration of plain old DVD.

Lots of older movies(and some not-so-old) only got released within the last 3-5 years, and some are still not available.

It will take many years for Blu-Ray to achieve any real significant presence, if it ever does. The is no guarantee that BR is the future.
Please put old movies on BLUE RAY!
by inachu January 29, 2008 6:45 PM PST
I can't find any stor or flea market that sells the movies:
THE KEEP
THE KEEP 2

Some old movies are so hard and retailers clear the shelf of old titles and replace them with spanish ones..... THIS IS NOT MEXICO!
Reply to this comment
They will when the demand is there
by The_Decider January 30, 2008 12:42 PM PST
Blu-Ray might have beat HD-DVD, but is nowhere near the market penetration of plain old DVD.

Lots of older movies(and some not-so-old) only got released within the last 3-5 years, and some are still not available.

It will take many years for Blu-Ray to achieve any real significant presence, if it ever does. The is no guarantee that BR is the future.
Wow
by rapier1 January 29, 2008 7:30 PM PST
You guys really will argue over anything.
Reply to this comment
Wow
by rapier1 January 29, 2008 7:30 PM PST
You guys really will argue over anything.
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 2 pages (76 Comments)

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