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The Mac's presence in the retail world remains limited, a shame given the rare opportunity for Apple to gain market share that opened up when Vista arrived.
The New York Times
The story "A window of opportunity for Macs, soon to close" published September 16, 2007 at 4:00 AM is no longer available on CNET News.
Content from The New York Times expires after 7 days.
They lost the "cheap computer" war.
Do your history.
You've been reading c|net too much..
/P
Steve Jobs has a master plan: http://fishtrain.com/2007/08/15/steve-jobs-master-plan/
Vista has its issues, yes. All O/S's from MS have issues at the start. Thats why its recommended to wait 6 months to a year after its release to switch over unless your a tech savvy geek who just has to have it. However, bugs and driver issues aside, its a sleek improvement over XP. Granted the security is a bit janky, but nothing a good antivirus, firewall and spyware scanner cant fix.
Now, in the worldwide market share Mac is a mere sliver compared to PC. We all know that. Part of it has always been the higher cost of Mac's, plus software limitations. Now that you can run windows on a Mac, that might change a bit, but why would I buy a mac to run windows when I can save 2 grand and buy a faster pc?
And now that Linux is starting to emerge more on the scene, an IBMC pc can be given a very nice O/S without any virus and spyware threat. I know many people who give their parents Linux pc's instead of Macs. They are cheaper, easier to maintain (IMO that is) and can run on anything. The parents would have had to learn a new o/s either way, so why not go the cheaper route that performs just as well if not better?
Anyone... articles like this do nothing but stir up the fanboi's on both sides, then it becomes a panty stuffing contest to see who can get their panties in a bigger knot.
Vista has issues, but so does XP, and XP's been out for about 6 years!! Are you ready to wait until 2013 for Vista to get where XP is now?
Linux is a fine OS, especially if you need a server, but nobody is seriously giving it to their computer illiterate parents. It's just not user-friendly enough.
that gave their parents / grandparents a linux box? I don't know
ANYONE who owns a linux system, let alone technically-inept
senior citizens. As much as we love linux for its anti-commercial
ways and total customizability, its not the friendliest OS for our
elders....especially when something goes wrong or requires
modification.
something goes wrong or requires modification"
Oh come off it. And just how is it any different with these same
people when they use Windows? For people in this category the
OS makes little difference. They would have to call for help with
Windows, Linux, or even OS X.
Actually, if you were providing support for this demographic
Linux or OS X would probably be a better choice than Windows
because you would be getting fewer calls. This is the group of
people who should be set up with a locked down box so they
couldn't make changes.
I'm starting my grandma on Ubuntu this month. Where I live, people are switching like crazy. Progress should be hitting your area sometime within the next year or two. It's full steam here.
employer was getting rid of, I thought I could experiment a bit
on it. The last 10 years had been a love/hate relationship with
Microsoft and had always been searching for something better,
usually dual-booting with some flavor of Linux. The G4 came
with OS 9 so I went right out and bought OS X, thought it would
really bog down this old machine but at least I'd get a look at
the OS in action. Was I surprised how well that old computer ran
even with the lastest OS..!! I remember old PCs of mine that
originally had Win95 on them that wouldn't even start if I tried
running XP on them but the Mac just hummed along! After a
week of playing with it I was sold and couldn't wait to get my
hands on a new iMac. Took delivery of the iMac in May of 2006
and tossed out ALL of my PCs..!!! :-)
I am looking into buying a Mac Pro so I can run more virtual machines and consolidate all my servers to one machine.
To me, its all about choice. I can run any operating system or any piece of software I want on my iMac without even having to worry about compatibility issues.
If you haven't tried an Intel based Mac recently, don't knock it! It's worth every penny...
home I use Vista. So while maybe you are happy being a one OS
man not everyone is.
If you are happy with 'playing with it' instead of doing actual work, then perhaps the Mac is indeed better suited for your needs.
Each OS has its benefits to those who need them. imacpwr needed a computer he didn't need to know anything about how to use in order to play with it. In this case, a Mac fit their needs perfectly.
of the last to still use Windows is about to boot her Dell laptop
out the Window. After her second, or is it third, reformat, in
about two years? She is sick of the spyware and all the problems
she constantly faces. It seems her antivirus software doesn't
keep up and she is tired of fighting constantly with her computer
instead of getting work done. She is getting a new MacBook
soon. None of my new Mac-using friends is the least bit
nostalgic about Windows. Frankly, the window is always open to
go to Macs, lots of users are tired of having the Windows slam
shut on their fingers.
So sales of the Mac have increased year over year, about 33-34% for the last two quarters, but some guy, with no proof his method for measurement is valid, says that Apple's market share has declined. For that to be true, sales of non-Apple PCs must have also increased even more than 33%. Is that what HP and Dell and the other major PC manufacturers are reporting? Not likely.
The writer also states that Jobs can't be satisfied with the Mac' share of the market. My impression is that Apple's goal, for every product it sells, it not a specific market share, but to ship the best possible product, and they do achieve that goal. And while they may not have the biggest market share, they are much more profitable than all of the other PC companies, even given their mix of low price, low margin consumer electronic products like portable music players.
I recently purchased an inexpensive notebook for use as a terminal, and it unfortunately came with Vista. That is a horrible OS. I have complained about it before on this forum. It is dreadfully slow, I just want to toss the notebook almost every time I need to use it. I am glad to hear that some vendors will be offering XP systems, as I still will need windows compatibility for some applications, even though almost all of my future PCs will be either Mac or Linux (until there are just browser-based computers, which will probably run some version of linux). Vista will drive amny people to Apple. Yes, their hardware costs more than windows machines, but it is far less frustrating to use than Vista.
Apple's formula for this has kept market share down as you state, however, the quality of the product along with consumer satisfaction is much higher than those of the windows camp.
Steve Jobs philosophy is not to crank out big numbers; its to crank out quality and insainly great products (as we heard in his keynote with regard to iPhone market share estimates back in January). If you will recall, he was only interested in a small (1%) of the phone market.
Its quite apparent to me that Apple is not about big market share with regard to the PC. They seem quite content to grow their Mac market slowly and are not hell bent on being a world beater like Microsoft is.
I don't disagree that Apple does some things very right, but they are not without their flaws.
websites.
1. Question is which 40k? Having a bunch of Microsoft, IT,
business related sites would skew that number to Windows.
2. Windows doesn't necessarily mean it's not a Mac. I know many
folks like me are running Windows as a virtual machine on my
Mac. If you visit any site from this machine, it would be recorded
as a Windows PC machine.
You are welcome to resume your flame wars.
All I can say is, that's not what I observe at all. I live in the midwest, where Apple products have generally been shunned for decades. (Let's face it. We don't have a lot of artsy, movie-making types out here, and average salaries in the midwest aren't so great either. The "blue collar" crowd around here just wants whatever PC is cheapest on sale at Wal-Mart.) Despite all that, almost everyone I'm friends with has switched to Mac as their last new computer purchase. In many cases, it had nothing to do with me pushing or advocating a Mac at all (though I love mine). I just watched one person after another come to the same conclusions I did. The Mac is a more elegant, better constructed computer, backed with better than average support after the sale.
No, they're not going to ever match the market share for generic Windows PCs. So what? To do that, Apple would basically have to give up selling computers and just sell OS X itself for all makes and models of PC. (That's more equivalent to Microsoft's business model, if you stop to think about it.)
But the fact is, last time I took an airplane flight, I counted more Apple laptops on board than everything else combined. 5 or 6 years ago, I would have been hard-pressed to find one. There's some change in the air.
But why should it bother you? If you liked to drive hummers and hummer sales were only 1%, does that make any difference if you drive one? As long as you get to drive your mac, don't worry about the rest of us who don't. You made your choice, we made ours. We both are happy with our choices. Isn't that what's important?
Long story short, after several weeks of re-learning how to use an OS, he sold the machine on ebay. As he said "it was pretty, but didn't work they way I wanted."
Observations:
1. Regardless of which is better, regardless of your opinion, non-technical people don't even realize there are choices in operating systems. They know Windows whether they know what they are using or not. Any other OS is foreign and strange.
2. The "I'm a Mac" commercials never really touch on specific differences between the platforms. To the non-techie, it's just computer 1 vs computer 2. The fact the Mac claims he has ilife while the PC has calculator is true, but in reality it is only a half-truth. For example, Mac never acknowledges Windows Movie Maker that has been on XP since it was shipped in 2001.
been on XP since it was shipped in 2001."
Sure they acknowledge it but think I'll just pass on that one..
;-)
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/betterresults_
480x376.mov
where PC and Mac compare their home-made movies. PC's "chick"
is actually a dude with a wig. Clueless.
I'm an end of life type. I picked up a laptop with windowsME just before XP was released. ME had a lot of problems but the last builds were at least generally functional. After buying XP it was like a breath of fresh air and I intend to hold onto that till the end of Vistas cycle.
Or... Since Vista reminds ME of windowsME in that it's not living up to the hype, I might just be ready to jump to mac. In fact, I'm very likely going to go that route. What if a significant number of us "end of lifers" decided we've had enough of windows?
I think I have. Once they stop supporting XP, I'm not very likely going to go with vista. All vista did was wet my appetite for a OS that's been doing for years what vista tries to do, only better.
Go with a Windows Vista or switch to Mac? I have a "big" birthday coming up (anything you want, darlin") and it looks like Mac will be the winner--though I'm waiting for the introduction of Leopard.
My DH runs a year old 24" iMac. I put Parallels on it as soon as it was available
On the other hand, my Windows XP computer, now three years+ old, was chosen because it provided the AMD chip. (I haven't seen any functional differences between AMD and Intel.)
I had to replace the hard drive in summer '06 after a fatal crash. The computer is exhibiting signs, via daily screen freezes, of an incipient crash. So, what to do?
Go with a Windows Vista or switch to Mac? I have a "big" birthday coming up (anything you want, darlin') and it looks like a Mac Book Pro is in my future--though I'm waiting for the introduction of Leopard (early adapter there,) with a serving of Parallels on the side for my XP only programs.
I will keep the XP computer running as long as possible, but on a "do not resuscitate basis."
I agree that OSX could seize a shedload of market share because of that - indeed, Apple is, evne now, growing faster than kudzu on a Mississippi telephone pole.
That said, if Apple were to simply plop out boxed copies of OSX that ran on any PC, they'd likely bog down very fast.
Why? It's simple... Apple makes its money from the hardware, enough so that the OS development is very well paid for. Selling an OS by itself just don't quite pay the bills, unless you have side apps requiring that OS - both of which you you maintain a market monopoly over (see also "Office").
Even MSFT knows that selling just an OS ain't going to pay the bills, which explains why they've been so busy casting about for new markets lately ( see also Xbox, Zune ).It also explains why they're so desperate to enforce/continue their monopoly in certain other areas ( see also MS Office ).
Now Jobs [i]could[/i] bang out a bit more by partnering with the likes of Dell, or by simply partnering with other OEMs on the OS entirely. However, if he did that, then Apple's legendary reputation for quality would go straight down the toilet; something I believe they wouldn't want to see at all.
/P
What kind of evidence is that? Where are your statistics showing that Apple is growing so fast? Do you know something that Apple doesn't? You'll have to come up with something a bit more realistic than comparing OSX to a WEED. Actually, that's not such a good thing to compare it to. Rather insulting to Mac users.
"Now Jobs [i]could[/i] bang out a bit more by partnering with the likes of Dell, or by simply partnering with other OEMs on the OS entirely. However, if he did that, then Apple's legendary reputation for quality would go straight down the toilet; something I believe they wouldn't want to see at all. /P
"
True enough. We all saw that Apple does not play nice with business partners. Power Computing was a good example of that. Apple is best when they can remain isolated from the rest.
If they wanted to join the rest of the business world, then they would just be one of the many other companies out there and have no indivdual appeal really and that uniqueness is their best asset.
more tech savvy individuals in IT like myself use nothing but Macs!
Its creative thinking, I could care less what some 40-something IT
manager has to say about Macs, honestly. Most of them are
clueless and treat IT as just another department. It is a living,
breathing, evolving industry, and MS has been
stagnant...well...forever. Get with the times, old timers.
Your pipe dream / pie in the sky viewpoint simply doesn't have anyplace in the business world currently. It's a nice thought, but not realistic.
You sound like I did 23 years ago! I was 18 then, and in love with all the new technology of the time (Atari ST, Amiga, Macintosh, etc). And just like you, I was convinced that those solutions were far superior to the offerings of IBM, Microsoft and WordPerfect Corporation. In many ways, I was right. At one point in my career, I even had the opportunity to manage the IT for a NYC firm that was entirely Mac based. It was my first corporate IT job.
BUT... now I am one of those guys in my forties (41 to be exact) that you so easily dismiss. What I learned over my career is that being the maverick often is not the best career move. I learned that no matter how loudly you scream MACINTOSH IS BEST, instead of your recommendations being taken seriously, you will be tagged as The Mac Guy. The person who seems to only be familiar with Macintosh technology, and who easily dismisses other technology. Those folks will often have limited careers, because they cannot be trusted to give an impartial and unbiased opinion. When you fight against the opposition, you appear as if you are scared of it. Of course, this charge can be leveled at IT managers who rush to remove Macintosh computers from their corporate networks.
A good IT manager doesn't fall in love with one OS and pronounce that love to the world. a good IT manager is capable of evaluating ALL technology, realizing it's pros and cons, and implementing the best SOLUTION to the needs of the corporation. If that's a Mac, you put a Mac in there. If it's Windows, then likewise. A good IT manager understands CONCEPTS. If you know what it is you want to do, and how it's done on a computer, then figuring out the specifics on a particular OS is not very difficult.
I also managed a 300 node network where half of the users had Macs, and the remainder were a combination of Dos/Windows users. All on one network, and I supported them all. New employees had a choice of which computer would be assigned to them.
Momentum is hard to stop, as stated in the article. For you basic apps, you have solutions available on Windows as well as OSX. But when you start talking about industry specific apps... when you start talking about apps for specific departments... momentum matters. Sure, if everyone did nothing but use Word, surf the web and read e-mail, you could swap their Windows pc with a Mac and they could still work. But what about all the data out their locked up in specific apps. Do you take the accounting department's PC's away and give them Macs even though there is no Mac version of, say, Mas90 Accounting? What happens to the past 5-10 years of financials?! Do you expect them to just start over?
I enjoy Macs. But my Windows PCs work well for me too. Use the best tool for the job. Don't get stuck on a particular OS. DO introduce new technology to your firm. That is an advantage of youth... the willingness to try new things. But those 40-somethings have the business experience to guide you. They are battle tested in areas of corporate politics, user tendancies, and Flavor Of The Week Syndrome.
Looks like you still have a few things to learn from us Old Timers. Take Care! :)
Think of Macs like a country club: Good food, good company, and a great golf course. If everyone joined it would ruin it for the rest of us. Let the unwashed masses keep slaving away at their drab utilitarian buggy PCs. What they don't know only hurts them, and allows us to enjoy a happier and more productive computing experience.
Don't forget to compare the software packages.
Don't forget to account for the need to run AV and AS on Windows.
A fair comparison will show that Apples are very competitively priced.
Sure compare one of the higher priced Apple boxes to a POS $500 Dell and you might think that Apples are expensive, but that Dell machine is garbage.
true. Certainly the out of box price tag is higher than a
comparable PC, but by the time you fork over, what is it now,
$500 for Macrohard Orifice, $100 for a webcam, $30 for
shipping the thing back because the motherboard smoked*
when you fired it up, get the new one back and then spend four
hours setting the thing up and installing the software you want
and uninstalling the adware, junkware and bloatware that you
don't, and the price tag for the PC is equivalent, if not more than
getting yourself into an iMac. Heck, get yourself a Core2Duo Mac
Mini and the Mac is cheaper than the PC.
*True story. Happened to me last month.
- OSX for PC (wishful thinking)
- by midfingr September 18, 2007 11:25 AM PDT
- "You can step into the world of hurt that is Vista..." I agree with that statement. I wish that Jobs would stop lazing about and allow OS X to be installed on PCs. It's entirely possible to do, as we've seen this with PearPC. Then would could talk about how viable Apple's software is compared to Microsoft.
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Showing 1 of 2 pages (99 Comments)Another plausible alternative is if the EU does good and really clamps down on Microsoft, Nvidia, ATI, and so on, making them open up their code. I think Vista would do very well with added input from the Open Source community. I think of all the years wasted by Microsoft and company were we could've had some very good platforms to work on--all to be p**sed away by corporate greed.