February 14, 2005 4:00 AM PST

National ID cards on the way?

A recent vote in Congress endorsing standardized, electronically readable driver's licenses has raised fears about whether the proposal would usher in what amounts to a national ID card.

In a vote that largely divided along party lines, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a Republican-backed measure that would compel states to design their driver's licenses by 2008 to comply with federal antiterrorist standards. Federal employees would reject licenses or identity cards that don't comply, which could curb Americans' access to everything from airplanes to national parks and some courthouses.

The congressional maneuvering takes place as governments are growing more interested in implanting technology in ID cards to make them smarter and more secure. The U.S. State Department soon will begin issuing passports with radio frequency identification, or RFID, chips embedded in them, and Virginia may become the first state to glue RFID tags into all its driver's licenses.


What's new:
A recent vote in Congress endorsing standardized, electronically readable driver's licenses has raised fears about whether the proposal would usher in what amounts to a national ID card.

Bottom line:
Proponents of the Real ID Act say it's needed to frustrate both terrorists and illegal immigrants. Critics say it imposes more requirements for identity documents on states, and gives the Department of Homeland Security carte blanche to do nearly anything else "to protect the national security interests of the United States."

More stories on privacy and national security

"Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary," Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, one of the eight Republicans to object to the measure, said during the floor debate this week. "However, any state that opts out will automatically make nonpersons out of its citizens. They will not be able to fly or to take a train."

Paul warned that the legislation, called the Real ID Act, gives unfettered authority to the Department of Homeland Security to design state ID cards and driver's licenses. Among the possibilities: biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA data and RFID tracking technology.

Proponents of the Real ID Act say it adheres to the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission and is needed to frustrate both terrorists and illegal immigrants. Only a portion of the legislation regulates ID cards; the rest deals with immigration law and asylum requests. "American citizens have the right to know who is in their country, that people are who they say they are, and that the name on the driver's license is the real holder's name, not some alias," F. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc., said last week.

"If these commonsense reforms had been in place in 2001, they would have hindered the efforts of the 9/11 terrorists, and they will go a long

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Real "National" ID
Revelation 13:16-17 It compelled everyone -- small and great alike, rich and poor, slave and citizen -- to be branded on the right hand or on the forehead, and made it illegal for anyone to buy or sell anything unless he had been branded with the name of the beast or with the number of its name.

They say it is voluntary BUT if youi don't obtain one you will not be permitted to travel on planes or trains.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
Posted by ALMRev (4 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Real National ID
The implications for us as a free people are truly frightening. One of the cornerstones of our Constition is the right to free travel under this Bill the only right to free travel you may have left is on foot.
I hate to sound like a conspiracy 'nut' but what's next--implantable biometric chips? After all, that is the only sure way to know that you are who you say you are!
Posted by (1 comment )
Link Flag
What rights?
<<They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. >>

Why don't you explain what liberties you give up when you accept a federal ID.

So far, I have a state ID, a university ID, an employee ID, numerous credit cards, a library ID.... and plenty of others. None of those seem to take away my rights. Can you elaborate, and outline specifically what protected rights are being taken away by this proposition?
Posted by David Arbogast (1709 comments )
Link Flag
ID Bull Acorns
This has nothing to do with who's who or keeping tab on you, It's big business and keeping track on all the citizens , its not going to stop terrorist and others entering our country illegally. What it amounts to is money. First how many of you out there believe someone can't copy and make ID'S for illegals and others. This is a sham and political smoke screen.Then they give you a choice that is not a choice but a mandate to get the federal ID. It will help the politicians to keep tab on you and how you vote......lol
Posted by Big Texan (1 comment )
Link Flag
Having a national ID card could possible help with terrorist attacks, hunting down criminals, and etc.. What if you couldnt buy food, clothing, shelter, have employment, and buy a car to mention a few, without an ID card? While all of that sounds like it could cut down on illegal immigrants, terrorist, and criminal activity there will always be some way around it. Im sure identity theft would continue to rise even with the national ID card in place. As for national ID cards being related to Armageddon who knows? According to the Bible no one will ever know when that time will come and there isnt anything man can do to stop it from happening.
Posted by (1 comment )
Link Flag
This is the end, my friend...
The Revelations verse you cited is describing the beginning of the end... of the world.
It's both exciting & scary. Are we ready to face the rset of what Revelations describes?
Posted by doihaveafuture (12 comments )
Link Flag
I am seriously considering leaving the country.
Between Real ID and NAIS, I am not only horrified, but terrified. I feel as though the government has declared war on it's own people.
It is begining to sound like the holocaust.
I want OUT of here, i am already talking about it with my husband. This is bad. What a police state America has become, it's almost as if I have awoken to a nightmare.
Posted by sicknd (3 comments )
Link Flag
Where will it lead to next?
First it will start with not being able to get on buses, trains, or planes. However, will it stop there? Will we be required to handle ALL transactions through this "National ID"? I shudder to think where this is all leading. Pretty soon children won't be able to go to school without it. We won't be able to get medical assisstance without it. Heck, We might not be able to use the "facilities" without swiping the "Wondercard". I could go on...the possibilities are endless....and most of all scary.

But what do we do about it? Protest? Leave? Refuse? I for one don't want to be "marked" like this. When u refer to the Bible and Revalations, this might be the begining of dark and difficult times for all of us.
Posted by j-me79 (1 comment )
Link Flag
Very true--
This is true--people should pay attention to what is happening....
Posted by toldyaso (5 comments )
Link Flag
thank you for this post. i completely agree and see where this is heading.
Posted by angelab1122 (1 comment )
Link Flag
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! However, this card itself is not branded on your rihjt hand or your forehead - so the card is not dangerous. We Christians can obtain the card...HOWEVER, the card is leading to the mark on the right hand or forehead because once people start losing this National ID card, then the mark on the right hand or forehead will be introduced and that is where the line for Christians will be drawn. God bless you for standing up for the truth-for the truth is what makes us free through Jesus Christ that strengthen us....:)
Posted by nevaeh7er (1 comment )
Link Flag
See more comment replies
Dangerous tactics.
This bill is a double-edged sword and it worries me. On one hand it's a great way to keep track of people. However, therein is it's greatest problem: Everyone able to be targeted. Who knows what kinds of information someone who can hack the system, or even just get ahold of your ID, can get. Identity theft could quite possible rise with such cards. However, I do see the good in this bill.

I personally would never approve it though.
Posted by (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
first valid point
Abuse of the system is a very valid concern. However, if we avoided any system that carried the potential for abuse, we wouldn't have much of an education system... no roads to drive on... probably no national security at all.

The question is not "who" can abuse the system, but rather "how" can it be abused. If the stored information only contains name, address, fingerprints, etc., then the potential for abuse is very low. My concern, is that retailers, ticketing authorities, banks, etc. will start to require the Federal ID. At this point, your federal ID will be linked to many different aspects of your life. This does increase the potential damage that could be caused through abuse. But once again, should we be making decisions based upon the minority of people who are willing to break the law and abuse systems of good intent? Where would we be today if we always thought that way?
Posted by David Arbogast (1709 comments )
Link Flag
If this happens...
If this bill gets passed, I'm storing my driver's license in a metal container so no one can scan the card without me knowing, AND I won't let anyone scan the card when I do take it out to show someone no matter what.

I think having a uniform standard and making sure only US citizens can obtain a license is okay, but when they talk about biometrics and RFID implants, then the government is going well beyond their boundaries and overreacting.
Posted by jaximflash (236 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Nothing Right About It
For a small measure of comfort. Over something that will
probably be really easy to hack, this bill is proposing to strip the
citizens of their rights and freedoms.

The reality of this proposal is scary at best. Foolish in the least.
If the FBI, and IRS (among other agencies) can spend hundreds
of millions of dollars on systems that do not work (and never
delivered), the only thing this bill does is create a GIGANTIC
opportunity of abuse at every level.

Those with the miniscule brainpower to dream this up should be
publicly flogged.
Posted by Thomas, David (1947 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Not to mention...data errors
It's amazing that, with all the problems attendant to computer technology, that the government is willing to trust it for something as critical as citizen records. There are numerous data errors in city, state and corporate records and compounding the problem are concerns such as data corruption, hardware errors, and the like.

A system that's being proposed should be 100% reliable to work, but we can't even get Windows XP to work 100% of the time. The difference between 99% and 100% is huge - applied to the whole population of about 300 million people, a 1% rate of error means you're talking about 3 million people - all of who could be yanked aside because of a system glitch.

And there's the other side - getting data errors corrected would be a nightmare. If it requires a certain level of dedication to get errors expunged from one's credit report, what would it take to get errors corrected in one's national profile? There are probably too many clerks out there already who are just too overworked to cooperate, undereducated, or who don't under basic concepts of technology, to be effective and keeping a national database clean.

Once again, fear is being used by RFID's proponents to push its agressive agenda.
Posted by truegenius (33 comments )
Link Flag
I lived abroad for many years, and I don't see the issue of a
national ID as problematic. I think it does make sense. Biometric
data is not that bad. Afrer all, a fingerprint is a biometric data.
Our picture is biometric data. Our signature is also biometric
data (It determines some of the brain's locomotive abilities).
I do have a problem with RFID. RFID is a great technology. I
would like to avoid lanes at the local market or hardware store.
They do know what I buy anyways by linking my discount card or
even my credit card to what I buy anyways. I don't expect that
knowing how many eggs I buy or that I buy ham, cheese and
bread at the same time. But I do have a problem with an RFID
chip in my driver's license, containing biometric data.
The silver lining is that for bar-coded or magnetic information, I
have to give my approval for somebody to look at it (i.e.,
handing the card). With RFID, I might walk through a reader
without even knowing it. Next time, a camera will take a picture
of my eyes (in a not too far future) and link that data. It's cliché
but it so reminds me of the 'Minority Report' movie. RFID/Iris
scans. What's next? Preemptive wars? (oops. that also
We might as well put or medical records on that card and make
it useful.
Posted by emiliosic (45 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Solution for the RFID issues
While the objections about RFID's drawbacks (mostly that they can't be turned off) are very valid, there is an easy way to solve them: SImpley allow them to be turned off. There is absolutely no technological restriction in the system that does not allow for the RFID to be turned off, or just turned on when needed. For example, an ID card could have it's antenna normally disconnected, and be turned on just when you press a certain spot (very easy to implement) or your passport could be on only when open. That way you could be able to be tracked when you want to (when entering the coutry or passing through a plane's borarding gate) and not the rest of the time.
RFIDs for products might also be optionally disabled permanently through a "disable" code, a specific signal that tells the products to delete their RFID data, wo they can't be tracked once outside of the store.
Posted by Hernys (744 comments )
Link Flag
Business Opportunity
Radar guns spawned radar detectors. RFID cards will spawn RFID Card Protectors. The only question is what is the smallest lightest protector that fits in a wallet and won't stain fabric.

This is America. We make money on inconvenience and fear, but if you don't think the innovators won't step up to the opportunity to protect rights while making a buck, think again.
Posted by (101 comments )
Reply Link Flag
More war on the poor...
The police record in my local newspaper is filled every week with an endless litany of motor vehicle problems faced by the poor--driving uninsured, driving under suspension, drunk driving, etc. We have a large body of our citizenry who are perpetually in trouble with the law because they cannot afford the buy-in which states require into the insurance scheme and another body of citizenry who lose their licenses over addiction problems. Using the driver's license as a universal identifier will guarantee that a large number of (usually lower-income) citizens will be routinely deprived of their rights. Congress should be working on how to fix the unfair insurance requirements in state motor vehicle licensing rather than monkeying around with more of W's bizarre Orwellian national security proposals.
Posted by Razzl (1318 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Not a poverty issue.
Driving is not a right, it is a privelege. And I support any effort to remove unsafe drivers from the road. Suggesting that taking drunken drivers off the road is discrimination against the poor is a gross misinterpretation of intent. ANYBODY who creates high-risk on the road can be removed. Whether its because they are on drugs, alcohol, or do not carry insurance. Driving is not a right. If you cannot afford it, or are not responsible enough to handle it, you will not do it. I don't see any indication that the new ID system is set to change any of this. And I'm glad.
Posted by David Arbogast (1709 comments )
Link Flag
Please! Get over the idea that there is some war on the poor. Every working American involuntarily supports them both with their Federal and State taxes. It's why no one gives to charity anymore and why my "poor" nieces both have huge LCD televisions while we have our little 32" one. It's probably unconstitutional for them to take money from working Americans by force, then give it away to other people, but no one is taking any action -- should be a class action law suit or something to stop it.

Anyway, the only issue I have with insurance laws is that, even though I drive a 2001 Chevy Cavalier, I have to carry enough insurance to cover the idiot driving the 2008 Lamborghini Spyder who saw fit to stop dead in the driving lane of a pitch black turnpike, at the end of a furniture debris field from the couch someone dropped off their truck, rather than pull off the road. I was dodging the same debris field and likely saved his life by getting my car down to about 25 mph before I hit him, but so far the assumption is that it was my fault. It will probably cost more than my $25,000 insurance to repair what would have cost about $3,000 if it were any other car. My agent wants me to double my insurance but I don't see the point; if I totalled the Lamborghini, double my insurance wouldn't have been enough anyway.

Back to the subject, we need the Real ID but we don't need RFID. We have to pay attention to what's going on in this country. I personally think we will end up rising up to defend our freedom in this country.
Posted by mostlyharmless22 (4 comments )
Link Flag
Arbogast: While under the letter of the law driving is a privilege, in many cases, driving is essential to surviving in some American cities and many rural areas.
Posted by VinOMoh (6 comments )
Link Flag
Yes these types of things are always protect either consumers or our citizens. Then why is it that it is always these two groups that get scr*wed?

The Patriot Act was to protect us and all it did was give more power to power crazed administration. It hasn't done a single thing to help us or protect us. I don't think it has even managed to help catch a real terrorist.

The DMCA was supposed to help protect consumers and make things fair for both business and consumers. Like proventing the sale of poor quality after market ink and toners for our printers especially of the ones that had anti-refill chips in them. But, all it did was cost us some free speech rights, cost us more money and allowed anyone that doesn't like what someone else says about their products to file a law suite against them for breaking in their protected copyrighted code.

It is all bunch of cr*p and this ID bull is just another example.

If they want to pass something useful how about a law that requires presidental canidates to take an IQ test so we can weed out the morons like George W Bush and one to ensure that right wing extremist nut jobs and religous freaks don't get in to office like George W. Bush.

Posted by (336 comments )
Reply Link Flag
the day will come...
The day will come when making such coments about someone in the government will cost us our lives. It happened in communist countries, it happened in fascist ones... and it will happen in the so caleed 'free world' soon enough, I'm afraid.
Posted by doihaveafuture (12 comments )
Link Flag
Just shut up about George Bush. If I were to say the things about Obama that people who can't spell say about Bush, I'd be accused of being a racist. The day has already come when we can't criticize where criticism is due.
Posted by mostlyharmless22 (4 comments )
Link Flag
Error in article
There is an error in the article where it says that citizens of countries in Latin America and Europe have to carry their IDs all the time or they are subject to punishment. For most of latin america an europe at least that's not true. You are only required to carry ID cards to prove you are over 18 to buy liquor or cigarrettes or to enter to a night club, for example, but not to walk on the streets or to go to public places (it is used for basically the same americans use a driver's license, which I always found absurd). Of course, if you are stopped by the police for some valid reason (the definition of valid reason varies from country to country, including the US, but that has nothing to do with ID cards) you might be held until you can prove your identity.
Most of the world uses ID cards, and I know of not a single case where they have been used to track or spy on people in a way that couldn't be done without ID cards. Credit cards are much more dangerous regarding tracking people.
Posted by Hernys (744 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Are You Now or Have You Ever Been a Member of the Lead-Foot Party.
Bless me Uncle, I REAL ID sinned. Ive had three moving violations since age 16.

Public confession time citizens, on the e-pillories of individual States per Federally set and controlled standards of data sin. Declan, now all those wheelies you performed on your motor monster down Sorority Row at CMU will be digitized and made part of the Federal record.

In the techno-vernacular, it will be distributed citizen data collection with centralized processing, analysis and control. The states will loose more of their already dwindling states rights, and become simple data collection nodes in data-input bondage to Uncle Sammy Buck$ Big Brother. If the States no play, Uncle Sammy no pay.

With REAL ID, when you get pulled over by Boss Hogg in any of the 50 States or U.S. territories of our Grand Old Republic, Officer Hogg will know all of your data sins at light-speed.

Clearly, a persons motor vehicle violation record is a prima facie indicator of who is and isnt a person-of-interest or a soon-to-emerge deep-cover terrorist.

The Real ID Act doesnt even mention the word privacy, because the Act might just as well be called the Citizen Privacy & Liberty Eradication Act.

SAT Question for REAL ID lovers: Privacy is to REAL ID as Liberty is to ___________. Ill ask your State of Domicile to embed your SAT Privacy Score into your REAL ID drivers license RFID chip.
Posted by Catgic (106 comments )
Reply Link Flag
sense of humour goes a long way
You've managed to put the whole issue into perspective while retaining your sense of humour. Congrats!
Posted by doihaveafuture (12 comments )
Link Flag
Jello Biafra was right
We are turning into the new Soviet Union.

Things that we lambasted them for, we are now doing or thinking of doing. Isn't nice that so many want to give up freedoms millions have died for just for the false feeling of security. We have grown into a nation of cowards. Shameful.
Posted by Bill Dautrive (1179 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Complacent is more like it
A lot of people today don't care what happens outside their sphere of vision. As long as they have their MTV or Sally Jessie, or whatever they call their favorite TV show, their Bar-B-Que grill, their liquor or drug of choice, electricity, etc., they are content. Why else would so little people vote each year.
Posted by Allen Aston (5 comments )
Link Flag
...yeah, but in the days of the good old USSR TECHNOLOGY was in its infancy & did not offer the mind-boggling possibilities of control that it does today!
Posted by doihaveafuture (12 comments )
Link Flag
If W. was strictly concerned ....
If W. truly wanted to make us safer he would blocked off Mexican borders (who , besides Mexicans, might be crossing into our country at this ill-protected border?); but, none of us want to pay $5.00 for a head of lettuce! So, the new "slave wave" is allowed to continue.

If W. wanted to protect us as people, he would protect our federally mandated social security numbers from identity theft and given consumers some recourse to recovering their lives after having had their identity stolen! Once again, the government benefits financially from social security paid in under your stolen number which is credited to a sub-file (not your main file) and when not collected (by illegal immigrant that paid in under your stolen number) goes into a government account. I read this on MSN opening page about a week ago.

Who exactly is our government trying to protect us from? And who will protect US from our government?
Posted by (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
Back in the USSR ...
A government willing to keep track of all people at all times, stamping them with whatever fault it can throw upon them so as to keep them under a perpetual sense of guilt and fear, thus making them obedient ...

Is that still the USA as we knew them ?

Does anybody really believe a few bearded cavemens are the real target of it all ?

It that the country willing to impose "freedom" all around the world ?
Posted by My-Self (242 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The Party of Lincoln loves power and control more than liberty...
It is very unfortunate and disturbing that the party that claims to believe in limited government and liberty supports neither. They have a long history of great sounding 'libertarian' rhetoric but a very poor history of actually following through. The government continues to grow, its authority ever expansive as our liberites and money (taxes) continue to be flushed down the toilet for the benefit of the welfare/warefare/national security corporate state. Unfortunately, for those who cherish liberty, the Democrats are no better. I would say we need a new Thomas Jefferson to rise but that is not true. We need a million Thomas Jefferson's to rise and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!
Posted by (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
Amem, amem, amem.
Posted by Allen Aston (5 comments )
Link Flag
I want a National ID
I want it to be GPS enabled and trackable ... I want my body found or my child's body found when some psycho murders one of us.

I want it to include biometric data.

I want it to replace Social Security Cards, Passport, Driver's Licenses, and even my work related IDs.

I want the State's arms twisted to make it happen.

I don't agree with the Chicken Littles who think the sky will fall if we have a national ID.

I want all nations on the planet to implement this as well with the card replacing birth certificates, medical records, and shot records.

I want an ID that is the sum total of my life and is indestructible so it will be here when I am no longer around.

I want it to contain my credit information and my banking information.

I want it to replace cash, checks, etc.
Posted by (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
You also want/need..
.. a brain.

A national ID card is everything america is supposed to stand against. Other have quoted it but I will again:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
Posted by Bill Dautrive (1179 comments )
Link Flag
Sounds good....
So what you want is to have your entire life encoded on a single card. Well, I am sure ID theives will be lining up to pick your pocket so they have your life by the balls. I hope that is what you want because with a card like you desire that is exactly what they would have. And, if you think that biometics and photos on the card and such will stop them from using it think about how well crackers crack things, how well croocks to make copies of our money to spread around and how easy it is to fake our current drivers licenses even though they are supposed to be tamper proof.

What I would suggest you start doing is walking around bent over and presenting because apparently you are craving getting shafted by crooks. You can save them time this way.

What an idiot.

Posted by (336 comments )
Link Flag
To Anthony Dauer
I am happy that you've determined what you want. Now here's what you're obviously not considering:

The rest of us dont necessarily want what you want.

Think about what you're suggesting. You're saying that because YOU want something, everyone else should be obligated to have the same thing - no matter how offensive or blatantly unconstitutional it may be.

Mr. Dauer, if that is what you want, and that is the kind of nation in which you wish to live, by all means, feel free to exercise your right to leave this nation and travel to one which operates in that manner.
Posted by (1 comment )
Link Flag
Your wish is coming true, faster than you think. Just hope you won't regret it someday.
Posted by doihaveafuture (12 comments )
Link Flag
I wonder what you will say when some computer savy child molester will use the system to find out exactly where your daughter is then kidnap her throw away her id and rape her.

Good luck.
Posted by Oleg Simkin (53 comments )
Link Flag
you want your head examined?
thats totall nonsense why does the goverment need any of that info
Posted by newcreation (118 comments )
Link Flag
You want National ID!?
I support individual opinions, but I really don't understand yours on this matter. Yes there are good things that could come but if we look at our history there are bad things that are sure to come as well. With increased technology comes smarter criminals. How long to you think it will take them to hack into the information? It is great that your body or that of your childs body could be located after a sex offender hacked into your daughters chip, followed her around, raped her, and then killed her. ....at least you have her body back to bury.
Posted by heather_westley (3 comments )
Link Flag
Why would you want someone else in charge of what you hold dear. All it would take for you to be rendered a non-citizen is the termination or deactivation of you card or chip for that matter.
Then eveything you have or have ever worked for is gone, one click thats all. And it doesn't matter for what reason, the federal government has already stated and implemented that under any circumstance and for any reason they can arrest, detain, and sentence you to a lifetime in prison. Without the right of attourny, or any other rights for that matter.
Posted by zeus42 (2 comments )
Link Flag
You don't really want all those things, you have been lead to believe you want them. Its an idea thats been sold to you and you've bought it lock stock and barrel. Its not your fault, thats the way it was designed, just as an illustionist fools you. Your basic freedoms are being erroded because you are lead to believe that your personal safety is at stake. Take some time to think at a deeper level about your life, the meaning of your work and the meaning of happiness and freedom, and you'll soon realize how chained you are today. Reflec on how things have changed since 9-11. Begin to see the bigger picture or you'll fade away into the canvas .
Posted by PeterSage (1 comment )
Link Flag
In other words, you want the Government to take all responsibility out of your hands for your family's protection. What ever happened to personal responsibility? You probably want the Government to take all of your money and give you back just enough for your family to live up to whatever standard the Government decides is appropriate. You want them to make sure your family doesn't overeat either by giving you just the perfect amount of food to survive on. You, unfortunately, are a weak, dependent idiot that Americans should be disgusted by!
Posted by mostlyharmless22 (4 comments )
Link Flag
How is this any different than the system we have now?
So instead of a state ID, we would have to carry America IDs? I'm
always being asked for my ID, when I get on a plane or train,
when i buy booze, when I use my credit cards, when I go into
clubs, when I get pulled over, when I get a rental car, when I go
to Canada, when I go to school, hell sometimes even at the
MOVIES. I can be taken to JAIL if I don't show my drivers license
to a cop if he asks.

So my question is, when will we have to show a National ID
where we don't have to show some kind of government issued
paperwork already? And how will a National ID infringe on my
rights any more than a passport does? Having a National ID does
not mean you have to store your credit card information on it, it
does not mean that the government will be able to track your
whereabouts with it, and it won't make you any more vulnerable
to identity theft than handing a credit card to your waiter at a

Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe I'm not paranoid enough. Or maybe
the people who are against national ID's are the same people
who drive big trucks and vote against gas taxes in the name of
'freedom'. Who knows.
Posted by montgomeryburns (109 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely - Lord Acton
Showing ID is not the problem. Were Lord Acton with us today, hed authoritatively explain the down-the-road insidious slippery slope associated with Nationalized, Centralized and Federalized REAL ID.

Credit card use and getting carded by clubs, rental car agencies, at school, the movies&etc does not count, because you still have the POWER. If a club hassles you, you can go to another club. If a rental car company abuses or gives you poor service you can switch to another. If your Credit Card Company poorly serves you, you cut-up and cancel their card, and get a new one from a new company. Are you with me, Monty? You have the POWER of the PURSE, and your private citizen feet are made for walking to another service or product provider with your U$D.

Enter government approved, provided and controlled Monty Burns America REAL ID, where REAL ID Big Gov has the power of Centralization. Centralization of the parts & pieces, bits & bytes of data that define and profile Monty Burns will then reside Inside-the-Beltway at Bureaucratic REAL ID Central. Not decentralized out in the hinterlands hospital where you were birthed. Not in some dusty file cabinet or on microfiche in the City-County Hall of Records and Statistics. Not in your State DMV issued drivers license data base.

If you don't like the treatment you receive from a Gatekeeper TSA Security Agent, Customs Agent, Law Officer, etc. what are your options...move to Canada, Mexico...a desert island? If you don't like the security culture in your town, city or state, you won't even be able to move to another State because your REAL ID data will follow you. If you complain about poor treatment to one of the Gov Gatekeepers, and it gets entered into their laptop or screening terminal, it will end up in your Monty Burns America REAL ID Profile. Monty Burns&Person-of-Interest.

ALL POWER OF PERSONAL DATA TO THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT! Do you like the sound of that REAL ID mantra? Lord Acton wouldnt because he knew, as should you, that when it comes to humans, Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
Posted by imiiso (2 comments )
Link Flag
True, the question is How Different?
Also, How More Safe? but really, the real matter of accepting this would be a question of conveniance rather than moral issues/ constitutional issues. The government knows better than to mess with conveniance, right? They would be more interested by refusals out of conveniance rather then refusals out of objections. If an american gets stressed over waiting more than average to get their hamburger, what would come of waiting in line to get his/her retina/iris checked(supposedly)? Pure Outrage! but really, would we be safe(er)?
Posted by Martha_Cruz (2 comments )
Link Flag
Hah! "Bottom line" fakery
"Proponents of the Real ID Act say it's needed to frustrate both terrorists and illegal immigrants."
Except that a number of states are preparing to issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, with California and Massachusetts leading but not alone.
Posted by broke (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
say, if that is true
it's interesting.
Posted by Martha_Cruz (2 comments )
Link Flag
Whats the real agenda? Please read...
All 9/11 terrorist were legally in the USA holding legal passports with their real birth names on them. They all were legally within the USA. I like the way the media always "conveniently forgets" to mention this fact. Kind of how Bush tries to make it sound like he took immediate action on 9/11, instead of reading a child's book during his watch.

The article seems to imply that "If these commonsense reforms [National ID Cards] had been in place in 2001, they would have hindered the efforts of the 9/11 terrorists". Obviously this is not the case. Had National ID Cards been in place at 9/11 the terrorist would have been issued prefectly legitimate and legal ones.

If National ID cards are imposed, terrorits will simply enter illegally. Or they will engineer/breed "clean" terrorists that can legally enter. Building a better mouse trap only temporarily catches more mice. Sure, the card might slighty alter their strategy, but no one is nieve enough to believe it would *stop* an attack? (Or are you that neive?) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the card will have little effect on determined terrorists.

In the end all you have is a card that is poor at detering terrorism but is suprising effective at tracking the law-biding citizens of the USA. 9/11 provides some "convenient reasoning" to make people think its for their own good. So, since the card has little to do with anti-terrorism, whats the real agenda of the National ID card?
Posted by (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
What was he supposed to do, freak the children out..I think he did the right thing!! I remember seeing that on the news..We were all freaked enough, we didnt need our children worrying about it too..

The real agenda is that it's one step closer to implanting chips in our foreheads or right hands..watch A Thief in the Night...I did at 16 yrs old and I had nightmares for at least 10-12 years..That movie may not be biblical but the theory is..
Posted by leannabanana4 (1 comment )
Link Flag
National ID cards on the way?
Back in the early 90's when a similar system was pushed on American truckers, other Americans sat on their hands and did nothing. Many of us, myself included, tried to tell everyone else that this was a model for the future. But who listens to a bunch of truckers anyway?
Welcome to the club. You're getting what you asked for. How's it feel?
Our commercial licenses have been federally administered since April of 1992. All our info is in a federal database. The new (and scary) part here is all the biometrics and RFID technology. It'll end when America stands up and demands an end. Not before.
Call your congressman. Call your senator. Call Pres Bush's office. Flood them with letters and e-mails. We only managed to produce about 50,000 letters from several million truckers back in the 90's... not enough. Most truckers didn't feel it'd make a difference and so they didn't bother.
I'm betting that several million PO'd Americans writing and calling would get their attention. What are you waiting for?
More Info: Feel free to visit me at...
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.alanburkhart.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.alanburkhart.com</a>
Click the "Privacy Rights" button in the left sidebar. There are dozens of links to additional information on RFID and other issues. There are too few people fighting this right now.
Wanna help?
Posted by truckerfromhell (8 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Tom DeLay's Statement is Incorrect
"If these commonsense reforms had been in place in 2001, they would have hindered the efforts of the 9/11 terrorists, and they will go a long way toward helping us prevent another tragedy like 9/11," said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas.

This is incorrect. The failures of the FAA, FBI, and CIA were the primary causes in my humble opinion. It was recently revealed that the FAA was even notified about the possible threats, but they basically did nothing.

It is true that the 9/11 Commission recommended a national ID system as part of their suite of recommendations. But I do not believe they stated the conclusion like the senator did above and that the ID would be hindered the terrorists. Too many errors and lack of oversights occurred in the federal agencies that I believe it would have not made a difference, particularly if the terrorists created a clone ID like they did with the driver's licenses.

Posted by treet007 (123 comments )
Reply Link Flag
This is an attack on our way of life!!!
All of this talk on centralizing intelligence to one source, RFID and etc., is just the begining. Soon they will be embedding GPS chips into us, our cars, whatever else they can stick some sort of security into. If you are not a believer, the the New World Order is not so apparent to you. This is the begining of it. Movies like the Matrix just don't come out of nowhere, they are conjured up from the conspiracies and blatent disregard for human life the privacy that we value so much and take for granted. The US Govt. is trying to control EVERYONES way of life and pretty soon, there will be no more freedoms given. I mean with every freedom, there is a restiction, but soon, everything will be a restriction. Pretty soon with the direction we are heading in, we will all have bar codes on our wrist that scan into a central database under some mountain in Nevada, that has your whole life recorded, down to even your entire DNA strand informaiton.
Posted by Phillip Ruffin (12 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Where were you all in November
This type of legislation is what this administration has been all
about since the beginning. How can anyone paying attention be
even remotely surprised by this bill.
Keep in mind that the use of these WILL grow and that every
time you get your card swiped, you will be logged some "law
enforcement" database.
This is the government keeping tabs on you.
Posted by jbtps (9 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Will not comply or be denied access in my country
I for one will not comply, my AZ license is valid until 2024 and I will not replace it to comply
Posted by (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
you're not going to be happy
Bold move, but will it make your life easier or harder it's an ID card not a change of life. I wonder who you voted for, or if you voted at all? because the elected officials are making these rules, not you.
Posted by (10 comments )
Link Flag
I spoofed this board to write this comment.
Three observations:
1. I used a fake id and password to write this, obtained at www.bugmenot.com. So much for valid id information.
2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a national id card until such time as the government decides to utilize the information to find or control you. (such as in a revolution)
3. Technology already has us by the gonads. Computers can be used for good and evil.

One of Hitler's first acts was to require national registration, and the licensing of all firearms.

Whenever someone says "trust me", don't.
Posted by aabcdefghij987654321 (1721 comments )
Reply Link Flag
This is a bad sign for the USA
Like many people have said, although this card may help protect us for a while, we can't give up our security to the government. They are human and just as able to give into corruption. The gov't, even if they don't think they are corrupt now, should be protecting us for future politicians that could be corrupt. I don't want the government to be my babysitter I just want them to protect my rights stated in the Constitution. I'm only 18 and i am serisouly afraid of what the US will be like 20 years from now. If it gets any worse then this I'm leaving.
"The evil that is in the world always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack understanding."
-Albert Camus
Posted by Noel10713 (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag

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