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Sales of boxed Vista copies down over XP
February 15, 2007 -
Vista's actual launch? Think whisper, not bang
January 30, 2007
The short answer is easy: neither. Roughly speaking, the Microsoft product sells for the same price it has had for years.
The full answer is more complicated. There are all sorts of factors that go into one's sense of whether the leading operating system "feels" more pricey or less expensive--the cost of other PC components and what gets bundled into the operating system are just a couple of them.
Microsoft General Manger Brad Brooks argues that Windows is a bargain, noting that it keeps getting more features for the same price.
| VERSION | Full packaged product | Upgrade version |
| Windows 98 | $209 | $109 |
| Windows ME | $209 | $109 |
| Windows XP Home | $199 | $99 |
| Vista Home Basic | $199 | $99 |
| Vista Home Premium | $239 | $159 |
Source: Microsoft
"If you break down the cost of the software over the life of the PC, it works out to be less than how much you'd spend on milk for your family over that same period of time," Brooks said.
Now that Windows Vista has been on store shelves for about a month, it makes sense to take stock of how it stacks up from a value perspective.
On the side that makes it feel cheaper, there is more in Windows than ever. Built into Vista are several types of programs that have, until now, cost extra. It has antispyware, voice recognition software included in the box, and other programs, such as Virtual PC, are available as free downloads.
And, while Microsoft has kept prices roughly flat, inflation means that in absolute dollars, the price of Windows has declined somewhat. An upgrade to Windows 98, for example, cost $109 in 1998. But in 2007 dollars, that's $137, according to a Federal Reserve Web site. Today, a copy of Vista Home Basic upgrade costs $99.
On the other hand, because the prices of other computer parts have dropped substantially over time, Windows has become a relatively more expensive part of the average PC. In 1998, for example, the typical desktop cost around $1,100, compared with $650 today, according to figures from NPD Group.
News.com Poll
Relative value
The fact that other PC component prices have dropped more than Windows doesn't necessarily mean the operating system is a bad deal, NPD analyst Stephen Baker said.
"While it does appear that the absolute cost of Windows has gone up over time, especially in contrast to the overall price of the PC and the other components, that rise certainly appears higher than it really is," Baker said. "Just like in hardware, we have to account for the increased value that the upgrades to the OS provide."
Over the past decade, Windows has integrated the ability to burn music CDs, make movies, record TV shows and edit photos. Also, those abilities haven't come steadily over time, but rather arrived in a bunch with each new Windows release.
"This is much harder than calculating the value of hardware, but I think there clearly has been increased value from the OS," Baker said.
But not all of that value has been just given away by Microsoft. The software maker has introduced pricier editions of the consumer operating system, such as Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows Vista Home Premium and Windows Vista Ultimate edition. So, while the price of the entry-level operating system has stayed the same, it costs more to get all of the bells and whistles.
Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, pointed out that many people won't really get a sense of what they are paying for Vista, because it will come already installed when they buy their next PC. "It's really unknown what they pay for Vista," Cherry said.
He noted that on build-to-order computer sites like Dell's, you can uncheck most components of a PC and see how much they add to the bill--but not always. "You can't just uncheck the operating system," Cherry said. (Dell does sell three machines without an operating system as part of its n-series, but adding Windows is not an option.)
Hidden cost
That means that, in large part, consumers' sense of Windows prices will be guided by the overall price of their computer. As long as that continues to drop, consumers are likely to be oblivious to which actual components inside the PC are coming down in cost.
Also worth noting is the fact that computer makers pay significantly less for the copy of Windows that goes on a new PC than do consumers buying a boxed copy of the operating system.
"From the consumers' perspective, they are getting a lot more bang for the buck then they did two years ago," said Samir Bhavnani, research director at Current Analysis.
However, one wrinkle in this trend is that Vista tends to work best on a more capable machine. Although it is too early to tell, there are some indications that Vista will push up average PC prices, or at least slow the price decline, Bhavnani said. He noted that in February 2006, the percentage of sub-$500 desktops and notebooks sold grew, compared with the prior holiday shopping season. But this past February, as Vista hit the market, the market share of sub-$500 PCs dropped significantly from the prior holiday season.
Even still, Bhavnani doesn't think too many consumers are viewing Windows as pricey. He noted how new cars would seem inexpensive if year after year they stayed the same price and offered more horsepower.
NPD analyst Chris Swenson said more people may start to notice Windows pricing given all of the upgrade and antipiracy measures in Vista. The new options mean that those with non-genuine copies are prompted to pay for their version, while those who want to move to a more full-featured edition can also do so--for a fee.
But most of the people who think about the price of Windows are those who actually go to a retail store and buy an upgrade copy, Cherry said. So far, sales of boxed copies of Vista have trailed initial sales of Windows XP, according to NPD data.
Cherry anticipates that most people will buy a flavor of Vista that corresponds to the version they have of XP. But some will want to move up to a heftier-featured edition, and that will add further to the perceived cost. That's particularly true if a consumer opts for Vista Ultimate, which sells for $259 as an upgrade and $399 for the full product.
"It is a lot more expensive," Cherry said.
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you do not have the knowledge..
I bought my comp..knowing that it would 1.Handle Vista:2.Knowing that companies might have to catch up with drivers etc...
I have now installed Vista(Home Premium)
Everything works
1:Everything Dell put into it
XPS 400(it's on the site 410 now)
So if you have a three year old comp..IT WON'T
Run Vista so good,just like my now seven year old
Compaq can't run XP PRO.
And how do we know it's expensive???
We {{Bought it}}????
or do we have an RC1 Version?
If you are buying a new computer, get one with out an operating system. Use the one from your old computer, it's still good. You know your programs will work, the device drivers will work, it is stable (or as stable as any MS OS).
Don't fall for MS's marketing nonsense. If you want to try something new or different, try a version of Linux.
My $0.02 worth
1. Nero does not work need to buy new version.
2. VirtualDrive 10 and under does not work need to buy new version.
3. 128 Meg Nvidia add on card did not work needed to buy another one.
4. Several JAVA related programs did not work. I cannot replace.
5. Sign Language program did not work. I cannot replace. (This was important)
6. My EXPENSIVE Dreamweaver did not work. I hope my workplace will replace it.
7. My disk labeling software (The favorite one) did not work. There was no replacement as of yet.
8. MS Internet Explorer was highly disfunctional. I ended loading up Opera.
9. I was upset that I could no longer put "Control panel in MyComputer (Now called Computer).
10. Unable to temporarly turn off System Restore (There are good reason for this function)
11. I really hate all those open folders. (Really who cares whats in a folder to see page ends sticking out)
This is all I can think of to this date. But I did spend hours trying to get things to work. You should have seen all the error codes (Over 400) listed in task manager. (Its still still there after a hard find and you can no longer get to it with the three finger salute.)That was having this computer for just two weeks. The gadget bar and Areo effects have already gotten old to me afdtewr all the problems I have been confronted with.
Does the new OS offers the functionality I need?
Does the new OS work fine with my current hardware; do I need to upgrade my hardware?
What new functions are there in the new OS that are so compelling that I must have it?
In the end, the old OS that runs my system fine is just that fine for the job I need to perform. Do I need to upgrade? What is the cost benefit I will get from upgrading? Said that Microsoft is getting its revenue from all new licenses it is getting from the OEM share, not from the retail share. Vista is an OK OS, but it is not that revolutionary as it was the switch from Windows 3.x to Windows 9x when it incorporated the DOS and the Windows shell in one package. Probably I will get Vista when my corporate office replaces my not so old laptop, and that will be fine, in a couple of years.
-Frank
If you try to use these discs on a new computer, usually they won't work for assorted reasons (everything from the discs checking the BIOS version and knowing it's not the computer the restore discs are for, to not having any of the drivers required for your new computer).
Usually, it's as simple as the restore disc not working on the new computer.
If you purchased the o/s off the shelf (retail version) like computer savvy people do, then it would work.
Windows Vista with EVERYTHING that MacOSX has = $399
To even consider the Home Basic $99 edition is ludicrous! It has
less features than Windows XP!
And please don't bore me with the "Mac people are jealous"
argument! What a waste! Computers are tools, nothing more.
Use the tool that works. If Windows works for you, fine. If Mac
does, fine. I don't care. But I also don't need to spend almost
$400 on just the operating system either! And if you say that
more people use Windows, so what? More people drive cheap
Toyotas... more people eat fast food... more people is a category
I DON'T want to be a part of!
I use both Windows and OS X, I like OS X, but different jobs for different people. I just wish the cults would come to an end. When OS X becomes boxed (and yes I know it comes in a box) and I can ACTUAL install it and use it on something other than Apple's shiny products that captivates the planet with its plastics, than maybe i'll consider it.
I work in IT managing Windows systems but the more I see of Mac the more I like.
Yes I build my own PCs and that is a draw back since I like to customize my own stuff. That is where I have an issue because there is only one place you can get a Mac and that is from Apple, BUT because Apple has designed it AND the OS it is not as tempermental as a PC with Windows.
I am a WinTel guy but the Mac (especially with the University discounts) is looking more and more atractive.
If I want to run my old apps then I can also load XP on a Mac and run my more expensive apps that I don't want to have to rebuy.
SUMMARY: Vista is going to drive sales of Apple Macs and on the PC side (Believe me I NEVER thought I would say or believe this)I think that Vista will also "jump-start" Linux on the Desktop. I have seen Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop and I am VERY impressed, but it too is an OS as a service since you pay $50/yr for the product with support and service.
From a LONG Time WinTel guy I have to say that this is the year of the Mac.
Hmm. . OSX costs $129 and is cheaper than Windows Vista at $399. . . but what good is software going to do me sitting on a desk w/o a machine to run it?
So, I have to buy a machine, perhaps preloaded with an OS. Now, lets look at a Mac vs a PC. PCs are way cheaper. Even when you add the cost of the OS, it is still much cheaper. . . for the same computing power.
I think my money will goto the PC everytime.
It looks to be that without competition MS can charge whatever they want.
Didn't they get sued in a class action suit for over-charging for Windows a few years back?
Looks like more of the same to me.
That is what they are trying to do with Windows XP as well and some legitimate customers wind up spending time and resources having to prove to MS that their copy either IS legitimate or was bought legitimately, they distinguish between the two. As you can buy Windows and then later find out it is a counterfeit or illegal copy and YOU are out the money.
Windows XP is slowly moving to a DRM managed service as if you don't download and install the Windows Genuine Advantage you are not able to get some needed options and in some cases updates.
Vista has taken this to the OS as a Service model where if THEY don't think your copy is legitimate then it either goes into a reduced functionality mode or does not work at all.
So When you take that part of the equation into the price of Vista you ARE paying more than you should since they are not having to price into the package the illegal copies that were rampant in prior versions.
Vista IS too expensive and benchmarks prove that in most all categories it does not have any better performance than XP.
I will give Microsoft this the DVD burning capability and the new TCP/IP stack are good, but the rest is just eye-candy that (unless you have a gaming rig) requires substantial upgrades for most people (another cost premium for Vista).
Poor driver support.
Requires significant technical knowledge to get fully running.
Limited application compatibility.
Many different and confusing versions.
All they need to do at this point is give it away for basically free, and improve the performance and security and voila...Linux.
Just couldn't resist.
Example: If you only have one PC and you are upgrading it then you restart and you have no NIC driver...NAILED!
Number one, the component prices are much less than they were in 1998.
Number two, the average cost of a bare computer is far less than in 1998.
Number three, other software companies have already realized that they need to offer a discounted price to be competitive in todays market.
And last, if I were to upgrade my five year old computer that I have spent over $1200.00 to keep updated by adding another piece of software that is going to cost $400.00, will I be able to sell it on the open market used for the entire price of $1600.00 or would I be lucky to recoup the $400.00 for the upgrade?
In todays market, it would be more like I would be able to possibly sell it for maybe $200.00, so where is the logic in having an operating system, the very basics, cost more than the computer is worth?
Linux is looking better everyday!
everyone uses Windows". If a service is bad, I don't accept it. I
change the service.
If the food is bad at a restaurant, I tell them so, and if they don't
work with me to improve it, I don't go back. If a store doesn't
sell the products I want, I tell them so, see if they will, and if
they won't, I go to another store.
When we start telling Microsoft that they are not supplying us
with what we need, then do NOT take their "whatever" attitude
as acceptable, things will change. For those that say Mac doesn't
have the software you need, I counter with, if you buy a Mac, the
software will come. The corporate world is not stupid. They will
feed our need if they see we aren't spending our dollars on what
they have now. If Linux does what you need, great! Use it!
Whatever it takes to make the change, WE are in control, not
Microsoft, not Apple, not anyone else!
How about GE; I want a 48" side-by-side for my kitchen, there are like four companies that make that style, however if I want water and ice in the door my only option is the GE Monogram at a price tag of around $9k. (Can I sue them for having "a 48 inch side-by-side with water and ice in the door refrigerator? monopoly?)
How about car makers; After all if you want a Dodge Durango you HAVE to buy it from Dodge... Yeah there are other makers with "similar" products, but if you want the features and/or look of the Durango, you have to buy from Dodge...
Just a couple of examples, but go ahead and pick ANYTHING in your house that you specifically purchased from one company over another because it provided the features or style you wanted and go ahead and try to sue them for their ?monopoly.?
-- To reference for those who didn't quite get that; there are other O/S makers (Linux, Mac, etc.) but if you want the features of Windows (ie the software and hardware that are made for Windows) you buy your OS from Microsoft. -- This is NOT because they have a "monopoly" but because they offer the features YOU want in an OS. --
Somehow it's perfectly okay for every other company in the world to have specialized products, yet it is evil for Microsoft to have created Microsoft Windows, a specialized product for computers?? Please explain this double standard because I don?t understand it.
-- Why is it that no one ever sues the software and hardware creators who don?t support other OS?s? (Oh because that wouldn?t hold water in court; after all the software designers are free to develop their software for whatever OS they want, if they choose to only support Windows, that is their choice.) --
You know what I think? I think that people who whine and complain about the Windows monopoly just don?t want to pay for the features THEY want in their OS. (ie the software and hardware that are made for Windows.)
That is my 2cents,
LadyMystri
I have done some research into upgrading my top end machine to Vista. (Currently running XP Prof).
First, I have to upgrade BOTH scanners, one I have to find a whole new piece of software to run it, the other has to be entirely replaced at the hardware level as the vender has announced no new drivers for the old one! At least the slide scanner can be upgraded wtih jsut software, though I don't have a cost on that yet.
Secondly, Vista still isn't sure if it will support either printer I have as well.
Third, my external disk drive is sure of being supported either. Not to mention my external cd and DVD drives, both of which are made by a company that no longer exists.
Components of the LAN show as questionable as well.
So, lets see:
Vista upgrade $200+
New Scanner: $200+
New printer: $200+
New external hard drive: $150+
New Office software: ???
Replace another program Vista reports as no go: $50
So, we are up to around $1000 and that doesn't even take into account the 2 GB of RAM is not even the recommended for Vista.
Nor does it address that I probably have to update Acrobat and Photoshop as well for another $200-300.
And what do I get for this?
Improved file search capability, which loads most of the directory tree in memory? ***? Why would I even want that, it just wastes resources for NO value.
Or DRM so I can't play music or videos that I have legally downloaded, or purchased? Yeah, that's going to make me go right out and buy it.
Draconian Windows Genuine Advantage, which can bring my system to a halt because it THINKS I did something wrong? (I have a laptop, which changes configuration twice a day, How long before it locks up?)
Microsoft, time to go back to the drawing board.
Get this: I bought a MS Sidewinder Pro. It worked great in win 98. Now, the bottom 4 buttons and the twist won't work in XP. MS says a driver they have will fix the problem. I download it, and it still doesn't work.
MS joystick, MS Operating System, and MS driver and it still won't work.
That was the last time I ever bought any hardware made by MS, and I never will again.
That joystick cost me $100 when it first came out, It's a perfectly good stick, hardware works great. I just can't use it because it's made by MS.
I have purchased several new sticks and mice since then, guess who didn't make them?
Any company that refuses to update their drivers for a new o.s will not receive my buisness.
I can understand why people who buy new computers are using it. What I cannot understand is what about Vista is so great that people are jumping at the opportunity to buy a beta OS? Is there something you need done that XP doesn't do? It sure sounds as if there's a lot you need done that Vista does NOT.
Why not wait a year and let the market beta test Vista for you? In this time period you'll have a chance to read all the "upgrade horror stories" from people in situations much like yours.
I am reminded of the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
> that Windows is a bargain, noting that it keeps
> getting more features for the same price.
That's all well and good, but what if I don't want those features? Then it's very expensive. For example, I'd love to avoid paying for and installing IE, Outlook Express, WMP, and a whole host of other "features" that are totally useless to me.
a $599.00 special I estimated would end up being $2,350.00 after I was done shopping just to use it! Christ!
We have two XP PCs at home that are networked only to each other, and one separate Win98 PC that uses dial-up for once-a-day text-only email. In a pinch, we can use it for (dreadfully slow) web access. For anything else that comes up occasionally, I use my work 'Net connection, which is protected by a large full-time staff of well-paid anal-retentive IT professionals.
WE are NOT ALL well paid.. Anal-retentaive sometimes yes. But, that comes from users trying everything they can think of to bypass our internal security so they can Chat or serf. Which in alot of the cases introduces at the very least Cookies. I am looking at our TrendMicro Officescan Summery and See 3290 hits this month so far 4 of which were viruses the rest just cookies..
Sorry I got off track but to reitterate I AM UNDERPAID /chuckle thanks avenue to vent..
ANYWAY... here's the ACTUAL price breakdown (adjusted for inflation - shown in 2006 dollars):
Full Upgrade
Win 98: $255 $133
Win ME: $244 $128
Win XP: $225 $112
Vista Basic: $199 $99
Vista H.Prem: $239 $159
Looks like the prices are steadily declining to me (with a slight bump for the "premium" edition). Must be all the competition that Microsoft supposedly DOESN'T have. Soooo... why would a "monopoly" keep lowering prices like that? Hmmm...
The $650 typical desktop today, back in 1998 would cost you $15-20K at least. At the same time, Windows XP, is only marginally different from Windows NT, yet costs more.
Since the vast majority of windows comes pre-installed on newly purchased computers, the ONLY comparison that makes sense is the price of windows relative to the price of the rest of the computer. And by that benchmark, it's crazy more expensive.
What your area only has one cable provider what about your freedom?
Only one DSL provider? What about my freedom?
Your DSL/Cable provider blocks ports and content? What about my freedom.
Do prices take in inflation?
Why is Ultima Online once 9.99 now 12.99 dam its an old game.
Why is my big mac twice what I paid for it when I originaly bought, Windows 3.11.
Come on McDonalds you make a ton of cash, why did you raise the price of my big mac?
Holy crap gas is double the price, it was 10 years ago? EXXON look how much coin you make.
Windows is certainly getting more expensive, no doubt about that.
Take that $400 for Windows Vista Ultimate, add the price of some really decent hardware, and I bet you will be at or above the same price for a Mac w/OSX pre-loaded.
Just a thought!
It's illogical to compare manufacturing costs to programming costs. Manufacturing costs can be reduced by automation (etc.), but programming can't be automated. It requires real, live, man hours.
- Linux seams to be getting worse
-
by wolivere
February 27, 2007 8:53 AM PST
- I would almost agree except the new Distro's out there are getting worse.
-
Reply to this comment
-
-
- get slackware.org
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by RompStar_420
February 27, 2007 12:51 PM PST
- You need to stick to the Distribution that is consistent, and there is only one that I like and trust www.slackware.org
-
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Showing 1 of 4 pages (190 Comments)The workarounds are insane.
Reading the Unbutu forms for support is insane.
Wait okay need to try and make my new video card work with the Linux install.. support responce.
1. When X says it can't start, tell it to **** off
2. Press CTRL+ALT+F1 to get to a console
3. Type "sudo su" and press enter
4. Type "vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf" and press enter.
5. Type this:
/"nv"
and press enter. I typed that on its own line because you actually have to type the quotes this time.
6. You should now see a line that says:
Driver "nv"
7. This is the ****** old vi version of vim, so you have to replace "nv" with "vesa", which is annoying.
8. Move the cursor to the 'n'
9. Press 'x' twice to get rid of 'n' and 'v'
10. Press 'i' for insert, then type "vesa"
11. Press Escape, and type: ":wq", that's colon, then 'w' and 'q'. Then press enter
12. You've just saved the file and told stupid X to use the vesa driver
13. Type "exit" to get out of super-user mode
14. Type "startx" and press enter.
15. Then double-click the "install" icon, and you can begin installing xubuntu or ubuntu.
Okay that did not work.. next
Okay try envy.. oh that has issues to?
Okay why won't it work with my 680i? or it can just the network driver issue, just reset you network adapter now and then and you okay, btw keep the second nic disabled.
Well I want to play wow.. oh use wine..wait cursor issue... sound issue.. got that fixed damm wow patched again.. okay redo wine config...
Personaly I have played around with Linux since 1996, and was a huge fan of OpenBSD. The new distro's make me cringe.
Now granted I take the Unbuntu live CD and stick in my 2 year old hardware, and it runs like a charm.
Just most of my games puke, even with wine. An honestly I don't want to spend hours tweaking to get my game running.
What makes people buy windows is that things tend to run. And if there are issues, there are sooo many resources. You don't need to dig around various boards competing with arogant epeen linux script kiddies who just want to spam you as a looser.
Or falling in love with an app or driver mod, only to have the dev team loose intrest and move on.
Or have them split into two different ones then spend time figuring which team you want to play with.
We did a network outage here last weekend. 220+ 2003 servers, we brought down, to do the daylight patch to, and also to recable to our new switch backbone.
Most of those servers had been running straight for over a year. Which for an MS server is pretty impressive.
We use to be a Novell Shop. And we all agreed we could do the same thing our 220+ servers are doing, on about a dozen Novell servers with a few Unix DB servers. And, do it better.
But Just as the people of the 1500-1800's hated the British. We to now live in a world were Microsoft has brought a common platform that 98% of the desktops operate on. Sure some may say French is better, and put there language laws in to protect the culture.
Also FreeBSD is a great choice.
I don't really like my self RedHat or SUSE (SUSE: acctually I liked it until MS started to get involved with it).