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January 26, 2007 5:02 AM PST

Rivals attack Vista as illegal under EU rules

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European Commission studying complaint that says operating system will perpetuate practices declared illegal three years ago.

The story "Rivals attack Vista as illegal under EU rules" published January 26, 2007 at 5:02 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

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ECIS' transparent junk claims
by mwendy January 26, 2007 7:41 AM PST
Wow - wonder why this is coming out now? Laundering product disparagement through bogus filings - radical new tool? Nope, some of the members of ECIS find this is the only way to compete instead of developing good, user-friendly products. Too bad for their shareholders and consumers.

Pure junk campaign going on here.
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Right on!
by WJeansonne January 26, 2007 11:53 AM PST
All bogus claims because these companies could build a better mousetrap, so to speak. So they go whining, kicking and screaming for socialist organization like the EU to help them out. Sun and other competitors here the U.S. used the same bogus tactic by petitioning the Justice department because they too couldn't compete effectively. I say, can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen!!
Mommy Mommy...
by FutureGuy January 26, 2007 7:41 AM PST
....my developers suck, I can?t compete help help!!! Those bunch of cry babies.
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MS can't do nothing right...
by aemarques January 26, 2007 8:23 AM PST
If it puts lots of stuff in the OS, is sued by everyone; if it doesn't, everyone complains that it does NOT have enough new stuff...
I just hope I can get my hands in a fresh copy of Vista before EU bureaucrats screw everything up...
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Please DO replace HTML
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 9:04 AM PST
What a load of crap. You have to love how companies are getting smacked for innovation these days. This is the worst case of ?sue for profit?? companies I have ever seen. These companies (Sun, Adobe, etc...) have failed to deliver completed solutions for its users/customers/developers and Microsoft has filled that gap. Adobe and Sun had plenty of time to ramp up their Java and Flash platform with XML driven UIs but they didn?t focus on it. Instead they spent all of their money on mergers and acquisitions, marketing, and attorneys.
It?s quite criminal to have a closed platform (apple, adobe, sun), where your developers are forced to wait at your feet for releases. At least Microsoft has delivered WPF as promised. Flash?s file format is completely locked. Once you start innovating anything using flash the Adobe attorneys come knocking on your door... Apple?s iPhone doesn?t let developers create a single app for it? How is that not creating a monopoly on audio player/phones?
Microsoft has always let companies create new applications for windows mobile, windows vista, and any platform that Microsoft uses. These other companies require a blank check for any kind of platform development.
Flash still uses ActionScript- Flex is still lacking a client side rendering framework like WPF.
WPF is also cross platform (it runs in Safari and soon on Linux), which addresses that stupid claim about not supporting other operating systems!
As for HTML, any reasonable developer would tell you that HTML sucks. How much innovation has occurred with HTML over the past 10 years? Someone coins the term "Ajax" and the kids think there's something new. Ajax has been around since the advent of the internet.
XAML provides a unified "OPEN" framework for developing UI. Anyone can write tools that produce XAML. XAML prepares us for the future where all things media are combined "Video, Audio, 3D, animation, and text"... Something that HTML can't do. HTML limits creativity and makes designers and developers create the same applications, same UIs, over and over and over. PLEASE DO REPLACE HTML!!! The world would be so much better if the UI and code actually did what you told it to and didn?t act different on every ?UI Parser ?? out there.
Microsoft breaks the status quo and the money hungry, innovation failures are riding the back of the visionaries. Pick up the slack, guys!
Microsoft can't continue funding every failed company out there just because these companies are coming up short on talent.
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AJAX = MS
by alegr January 26, 2007 1:19 PM PST
Actually, AJAX was introduced by Microsoft in IE5.
Since you mention Adobe and Sun....
by 527nrhpd January 26, 2007 6:10 PM PST
If MS left enough of the .pdf file converter alone in Vista and Office 2007, I might just have to make the switch. I have a Core 2 Duo laptop w/ 1GB of RAM on XP 2 SP2, and it runs extremely fast and stable...UNTIL, that is, I use any form of an Adobe software package, or Sun's Java Runtime Environment starts up.

People bash MS for bloatware, but in my experience of using computers every day since Win 95 / Office 95, Adobe is the worst single software manufacturer in the world, and if I could, I would uninstall EVERYTHING of theirs...I wish people would quit accepting Flash ads or using .pdf for anything just to put their crappy company out of business. I mean, after all this time, can't Sim and Adobe write a program that goes away when closed, loads startup programs without telling you, or slowing down a computer to a crawl? My cable modem is normally like changing channels on the TV, but once Java or Adobe start up, it's like dial up.

Maybe this isn't as technical as KosherO's post, but it is my feeling on the (un)usability of a couple of the whiny losers who refuse to innovate. I would be happy to support MS in any trial that saw them having put the Sun's and Adobe's out of business as to how they made my life better and happier. Face it Sun / Adobe / anyone else in this crowd, crying to the EU because you've had 5 years to try and catch up and can't hardly compete with Windows XP's included features, is just a sign of pure stupidity.
msft haters
by YankeePoodle January 26, 2007 9:17 AM PST
For long there has been complaints that MSFT does not invent or design a new thing. Here we are with MSFT putting together something new, and its rivals are crying foul?

MSFT haters want it both ways.
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complaints
by rex007can January 26, 2007 11:44 AM PST
Nobody complains that MS doesn't invent anything. People just get angry when MS CLAIMS to add tons of innovation, while it is obvious that the copied everything from other companies.
There's a big difference.

These complaints are not about the new OS and how it works or doesn't work. These complaints are because MS designs the OS specifically so that it DOESN'T work with certain programs because they want to keep those programs out of a market that they are trying to get a dominant position in. MS has been convicted, in court by judges, multiple times, of doing exactly this. So small companies have a right to complain when they do it AGAIN.
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Sorry! this page will only load if you run Vista.
by inachu January 26, 2007 9:19 AM PST
Soon even the XML/HTML language will be so complex even a simple homepage will be reduce to machine code only supprted by the Vista OS.

Shame on you Bill Gates!
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XML will never change
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 12:41 PM PST
It's here to stay.
Haters should have done a few seconds of research
by KTLA_knew January 26, 2007 9:53 AM PST
The flacidness of these charges is quite obvious from the get go:

"They said a so-called "open XML" platform file format, known as OOXML, is designed to run seamlessly only on the Microsoft Office platform."

Perhaps they haven't been following the ECMA stadardization of OOXML. A few seconds of web searching would have saved them quite a lot of embarrasment!

http://www.ecma-international.org/news/PressReleases/PR_TC45_Dec2006.htm

(HINT: the "E" in ECMA stands for European!)
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Ecma?
by rex007can January 26, 2007 11:39 AM PST
Everyone who followed the procedings just a little bit knows full well that the entire things was rubber stamped by ECMA and that MS whent for ECMA because they knew they had no chance of succeding with ISO. Governments don't run ECMA. And if you read the documentation, you'll find that OOXML doesn't even respect other standards defined by ECMA. The whole thing stincks. Even sections of the standard, which "claims" to be open, refer to operations from other MS proprietary software. It is designed from the ground up, to only work on MS. That's obvious to anyone...except you maybe?
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Haters should have done a few seconds of research
by KTLA_knew January 26, 2007 9:53 AM PST
The flacidness of these charges is quite obvious from the get go:

"They said a so-called "open XML" platform file format, known as OOXML, is designed to run seamlessly only on the Microsoft Office platform."

Perhaps they haven't been following the ECMA stadardization of OOXML. A few seconds of web searching would have saved them quite a lot of embarrasment!

http://www.ecma-international.org/news/PressReleases/PR_TC45_Dec2006.htm

(HINT: the "E" in ECMA stands for European!)
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Beware of M$ misinformation
by C_G_K January 26, 2007 11:33 AM PST
M$ got caught trying to diddle with a wikipedia article it didn't like. This proves to me that M$ has paid stooges that monitor the web and try to put it's spin on things. Those who are apologists for M$ on forums like this and call "haters" anyone who criticizes their abhorant, anti-competitive practices should be viewed with extreme skepticsm.
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Criticize all you want
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 11:58 AM PST
Criticize all you want but don't spew garbage that's totally false. I don't work for MS, I work for myself.

Go ahead and think what you want but in the end, Microsoft is still going to be cross platform, XML driven, pushing the coolest and the newest, something we all strive for.

If you don't like the fact that they can innovate and you can't, stay out the kitchen.

Cross platform:
http://www.thomasgoddard.com/Home/tabid/73/EntryID/3/Default.aspx
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Attorneys don't design software
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 11:40 AM PST
Looks like Linux is beefing up their "talent department". Adding to their creative muscle? Really innovating for the customer so to speak.

"The Linux Legal Defense Fund has served mostly as a deterrent to lawsuits against Linux, although "a handful of folks have tapped the fund," says Linux Foundation legal counsel Diane Peters, formerly the OSDL's legal counsel. Peters wouldn't provide details about who's received legal defense funding or how much had been issued."

Someone needs to spank these money hungry attorneys. When creativity is destroyed by bureaucracy then all things will not be equal.
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XAML
by rex007can January 26, 2007 12:08 PM PST
I never claimed AXML was not cross platform. Someone else did that. And the EU problem has nothing to do with that.

ANd you're right, if Applpe had 90% of the market, we'd be ******** about them instead. The thing is, the complaints arent about the quality of the software or what it can and cannot do. The complaints are about MS witholding critical information to key pleyers voluntarely in order to keep these players out. And that is illegal. Period.
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Withholding What!?!
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 12:16 PM PST
Key information to what key players? You can't withhold something that's written in plain english and open to everyone.

I'd argue that RSS is the ugliest standard I have ever seen for XML. Totally loosly typed and entirely nasty for consumption, yet people support it.

Apple or Harvard, it doesn't matter, if you can't push the envelope and don't have the talent to make something that competes in the long haul then you are in the wrong business.

There's the old saying "Only the strong will survive". There's also the old saying "If you can't beat them, join em'"
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Wrong
by rex007can January 26, 2007 12:17 PM PST
LOTS of people could and actually DO build a better mouse trap. The complaint is about MS killing anyone who tries to get close to the hole.
It doesn't matter how much money in development you spend, or how good your product is, if the company that owns 95% of the computers that could run it make it impossible to do so.

THAT's the fundamental problem.
Nothing to do with quality. Everything to do with access.
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And MS makes it possible
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 12:50 PM PST
Have you seen the iPhone? Pretty compelling right? Too bad you will never develop a line of code for it.

Windows mobile? Same features only there is a great Windows Mobile SDK for it.
But it's never been true
by extinctone January 26, 2007 1:37 PM PST
Even when it was discussed at MS as in the famous "Cut off the air supply to Netscape" it never went beyond a short discussion though you'd never have known it from reading all the fools hyping it up.

The old saying "DOS ain't done until Lotus won't run" was never true and it still isn't true today.

Only the oblivious can't see the simple fact that MS provides the tools and information for people to customize their software and utilize their software. In fact MS has done the best job of providing both the information and tools for a very long time, that's the real reason why most people have MS software. The simple fact that more applications are available for Windows has driven it's success and if you think MS isn't aware of that you've not listened as MS has called for developers to support it latest releases of whatever it's produced and reached out to make sure those developers are well supported.

The fundamental problem is that people like you can't ever seem to see the obvious facts about why MS succeeded and why they continue to succeed even though people like you have naysaying them for more than a decade.

This same crap was floating around when the current version of Windows was 3.1 and the alternative OS that was the darling of the naysayer's club was OS/2.
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Oh and
by rex007can January 26, 2007 12:27 PM PST
If patents are a lawyers best friend, why has MS been working on getting more than 2000 patents a year.
Some of those included in a standard that they are trying to make International.

I wonder...
And this has absolutely nothing to do with the GPL. Doesn;\'t even belong here.
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When has microsoft sued?
by Kosher0 January 26, 2007 12:47 PM PST
I havn't seen microsoft sue anyone for patent infringement and MS even has the patent on emoticons. LOL

GPL lives for this stuff...
View reply
Hugo and his "rivals" at it all over again!
by Commander_Spock January 26, 2007 1:14 PM PST
Claiming "that Microsoft's new Vista operating system will perpetuate practices found illegal in the European Union nearly three years ago..." appears to be the same scenarios with the others players all over again "under EU rules" leading one to believe that Hugo makes the "rules" (advantageous to himself only) by which the other players play when it comes to the home turf!
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Funny stuff
by qwerty75 January 26, 2007 9:26 PM PST
Look at all the astroturfers here claiming that the market share of MS has to do with quality and not deceptive practices, lock in and the illegal crushing of opponents. When MS is forced to play on a level playing field it never really succeeds: Zune, search, XBOX(it is still a huge money sink), etc. The reason MS fights so hard to keep the playing field tilted in its favor, by any means, is because it simply can't stand toe to toe with anyone.

And for all the innovation claims, one just has to look at Vista and compare it to OSX and Linux and see how innovative it is.

Look at c# and .net, it is just a bad, unsafe copy of Java.

I have to wonder how much MS pays people to spend their days lying about one of the most corrupt and harmful companies in the world.

Show me 1 cent gates has given away that was not tied to a press release. Gates is no philanthropist, it is just tax deductible marketing and in some cases just another cost to attempting to crush F/OSS(His trip to India a while back is a prime example). Besides, his money is ill gotten. Would you cheer on a bank robber that gave a small percentage of his loot to the poor?
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lol
by iRhapsody January 27, 2007 11:32 AM PST
you know it well yourself have exploited the tax shield.

Put yourself on his shoe, if you were a billionaire like Gates, what would you have done to your community, to the humanity? I doubt you would be generous as he is.

Can you name the muti-millionaires out there would donate half of their wealth and dedicate to help the poor, and the ill?

It's a shame to bash someone unless you yourself have done it at the first place. Yep, yep. I don't have that much money, but you have your feet and hands, right?
Just More Pathetic Whining
by deerfield88 January 26, 2007 10:09 PM PST
It should be embarrasing.
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lol
by iRhapsody January 27, 2007 11:31 AM PST
you know it well yourself have exploited the tax shield.

Put yourself on his shoe, if you were a billionaire like Gates, what would you have done to your community, to the humanity? I doubt you would be generous as he is.

Can you name the muti-millionaires out there would donate half of their wealth and dedicate to help the poor, and the ill?

It's a shame to bash someone unless you yourself have done it at the first place. Yep, yep. I don't have that much money, but you have your feet and hands, right?
Reply to this comment
Why...
by Commander_Spock January 27, 2007 1:09 PM PST
... attack Vista as illegal under EU rules" and not at an institution such as the International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO) where there may be more global implications for all parties concerned as well as the International Organisation for Standardisation having already approved the the Open Office Standards Format (ODF) which was proposed by the OASIS Group. The real issue here it is believed is as simple this; if Microsoft cannot lead when it comes to the "international" market place then it has no other alternative but to follow!
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