Riot control ray gun worries scientists

"Less lethal" weapon shoots a microwave beam, causes painful hot spots. Scientists worry targets could suffer permanent damage.
Photos: Researchers cook up microwave weapon

The story "Riot control ray gun worries scientists" published July 20, 2005 at 12:22 PM is no longer available on CNET News.

Content from Reuters expires after 30 days.

[Sboston]

Yikes!

This is very wrong! This is something that should be abandoned before it goes any further.

Can you imagine the effect of pumping the power up on this thing? Death ray or a heat ray like in War of the Worlds.

[Mister C]

Don't Panic!

There is nothing to worry about. This device will only be used on Liberals, Commies, Illegal Aliens, Atheists, Gays, Welfare Cheats, Druggies, Abortionists, Democrats, Egg Head intellectuals, and any other UnAmerican type that would dare to challenge their government! The rest of us are perfectly safe, at least for now.

[jmaximus9]

So?

I guess you think having your head blown off is?

http://jmaximus.blogspot.com

[Sboston]

Yikes!

This is very wrong! This is something that should be abandoned before it goes any further.

Can you imagine the effect of pumping the power up on this thing? Death ray or a heat ray like in War of the Worlds.

[Mister C]

Don't Panic!

There is nothing to worry about. This device will only be used on Liberals, Commies, Illegal Aliens, Atheists, Gays, Welfare Cheats, Druggies, Abortionists, Democrats, Egg Head intellectuals, and any other UnAmerican type that would dare to challenge their government! The rest of us are perfectly safe, at least for now.

[jmaximus9]

So?

I guess you think having your head blown off is?

http://jmaximus.blogspot.com

[keidee]

microwave gun

If I have read the report correctly, this ray would be aimed at a section of a crowd/rioters in order to disperse them. It follows therefore, that any part of a person's body could be in the path of that ray and that the aimer could not avoid the chance that the ray would hit eyes, ears, teeth and/ or spectacles. This would in effect, be an indiscriminate weapon with possible horrific results to the human body. I repeat,it appears that this is planned to be used on rioters, not enemy forces. I would quickly say that I would also condemn the use of such a weapon on any human being. Surely this weapon must contravene some Convention that has been agreed in the past.
Imagine it in the hands of some sadistic military members such as have been shown up in recent news stories from Iraq and from prisoner camps! What sport they could have, how it would fuel their cruel urges.
I can't write any more, I am so dismayed that mankind is continuing to create ever more montrous weapons and has learned nothing from history.

Re: microwave gun

Wow, I agree. You cannot control what metalic items a crowd my have on their person. What about people with Piercings in various parts of their bodies! Sorry Prince, didn't mean to fry you! What Idiots in the Oversight Committee thought this was a good idea? We should have them all taken out and microwaved. Then ask them if they still want us to use it!

[jmaximus9]

Do you ever read the news?

Do you really think present methods are better? This is going to used in Iraq, where homicide bombers kill dozens of people daily. Do you really think bullets are better? You really sound like somebody who knows nothing about the reality of warfare. Try watching the History Channel once in a while instead of Entertainment Tonight and American Idol.

http://jmaximus.blogspot.com

[keidee]

microwave gun

If I have read the report correctly, this ray would be aimed at a section of a crowd/rioters in order to disperse them. It follows therefore, that any part of a person's body could be in the path of that ray and that the aimer could not avoid the chance that the ray would hit eyes, ears, teeth and/ or spectacles. This would in effect, be an indiscriminate weapon with possible horrific results to the human body. I repeat,it appears that this is planned to be used on rioters, not enemy forces. I would quickly say that I would also condemn the use of such a weapon on any human being. Surely this weapon must contravene some Convention that has been agreed in the past.
Imagine it in the hands of some sadistic military members such as have been shown up in recent news stories from Iraq and from prisoner camps! What sport they could have, how it would fuel their cruel urges.
I can't write any more, I am so dismayed that mankind is continuing to create ever more montrous weapons and has learned nothing from history.

Re: microwave gun

Wow, I agree. You cannot control what metalic items a crowd my have on their person. What about people with Piercings in various parts of their bodies! Sorry Prince, didn't mean to fry you! What Idiots in the Oversight Committee thought this was a good idea? We should have them all taken out and microwaved. Then ask them if they still want us to use it!

[jmaximus9]

Do you ever read the news?

Do you really think present methods are better? This is going to used in Iraq, where homicide bombers kill dozens of people daily. Do you really think bullets are better? You really sound like somebody who knows nothing about the reality of warfare. Try watching the History Channel once in a while instead of Entertainment Tonight and American Idol.

http://jmaximus.blogspot.com

Sick Stuff

Who dreams this stuff up? This is absolutely sick. It "might" cause permanent damage. Yeah right. And they used to have soldiers in the blast zone of nuclear tests because it was deemed "safe".

Sick Stuff

Who dreams this stuff up? This is absolutely sick. It "might" cause permanent damage. Yeah right. And they used to have soldiers in the blast zone of nuclear tests because it was deemed "safe".

[Andrew J Glina]

Damage

In addition to heating all water in the body, RF causes permament damage to DNA, especially when it is in the high GHz range. If this is used then there will be a lot of sickness six months later. Stuff like cancer, sterillity and blindness. When I worked on RADARs and was forced to do tests with the cabinets open I did my best to keep it short. My radar was 3GHz and you could feel the RF soaking into you, and that was just klystron (big glass valve) leakage. Scarey and sick.

hmmm

Well as long as your not in a RIOT I think you'll feel fine.

[dsmoothest]

WOW

Now THAT is scarey! With your knowledge and background working with RF, your input in this discussion is greatly appreciated.

[202578300049013666264380294439]

Not on target

"In addition to heating all water in the body, RF causes permament damage to DNA, especially when it is in the high GHz range."

You'd better hope microwave RF doesn't cause "permanent damage to DNA" since cellphones, wireless networks and cordless phones use it. Further, this radiation is at 95 GHz., so it is in between microwave and IR radiation (millimeter waves, technically).

This means that it doesn't "heat all water in the body", since it only penetrates into the skin. (Also the only DNA that could possibly be damaged is in the skin, and I'm pretty certain it would only be damaged by sufficient heating, just as if you'd been burned by a conventional heat source.)

"If this is used then there will be a lot of sickness six months later. Stuff like cancer, sterillity and blindness."

I seriously doubt it.

"When I worked on RADARs and was forced to do tests with the cabinets open I did my best to keep it short. My radar was 3GHz and you could feel the RF soaking into you, and that was just klystron (big glass valve) leakage. Scarey and sick."

So you worked with a 30 times longer wavelength...not very relevant. If the leakage was so bad (and worried you so much) why didn't you wear protective gear?

[Andrew J Glina]

Damage

In addition to heating all water in the body, RF causes permament damage to DNA, especially when it is in the high GHz range. If this is used then there will be a lot of sickness six months later. Stuff like cancer, sterillity and blindness. When I worked on RADARs and was forced to do tests with the cabinets open I did my best to keep it short. My radar was 3GHz and you could feel the RF soaking into you, and that was just klystron (big glass valve) leakage. Scarey and sick.

hmmm

Well as long as your not in a RIOT I think you'll feel fine.

[dsmoothest]

WOW

Now THAT is scarey! With your knowledge and background working with RF, your input in this discussion is greatly appreciated.

[202578300049013666264380294439]

Not on target

"In addition to heating all water in the body, RF causes permament damage to DNA, especially when it is in the high GHz range."

You'd better hope microwave RF doesn't cause "permanent damage to DNA" since cellphones, wireless networks and cordless phones use it. Further, this radiation is at 95 GHz., so it is in between microwave and IR radiation (millimeter waves, technically).

This means that it doesn't "heat all water in the body", since it only penetrates into the skin. (Also the only DNA that could possibly be damaged is in the skin, and I'm pretty certain it would only be damaged by sufficient heating, just as if you'd been burned by a conventional heat source.)

"If this is used then there will be a lot of sickness six months later. Stuff like cancer, sterillity and blindness."

I seriously doubt it.

"When I worked on RADARs and was forced to do tests with the cabinets open I did my best to keep it short. My radar was 3GHz and you could feel the RF soaking into you, and that was just klystron (big glass valve) leakage. Scarey and sick."

So you worked with a 30 times longer wavelength...not very relevant. If the leakage was so bad (and worried you so much) why didn't you wear protective gear?

out of control

We're out of control. Somebody has to stick up for the poor people who might become victims of this possible cruel and unusual punishment. It sounds as if it is possible that this gun might mutilate people ie by overheating contact lenses which sounds like it might cause blindness and overheating metals close to the body. Non-lethal forms of deterrance are preferable but these are people who will be effected. Are we saying that ok we're not gonna shoot you or use tear gas, but we just may accidently/purposely blind you and burn you. Kinda sick. We're out of control.

out of control

We're out of control. Somebody has to stick up for the poor people who might become victims of this possible cruel and unusual punishment. It sounds as if it is possible that this gun might mutilate people ie by overheating contact lenses which sounds like it might cause blindness and overheating metals close to the body. Non-lethal forms of deterrance are preferable but these are people who will be effected. Are we saying that ok we're not gonna shoot you or use tear gas, but we just may accidently/purposely blind you and burn you. Kinda sick. We're out of control.

We must stop this

And I could just imagine the people in the crowd not understanding what was happening to them even if they were told by our military, so many communication problems could occur. In the confusion of such a situation they might think that a bomb had gone off or that they were deliberately being somehow fired upon. All this could cause them to not move away fast enough and to increase the likelihood of, overexposure and therefore permenant damage. Too many problems-variables that could go wrong and it already sounds dangerous with the safest possible usage. Who do we have running this research anyway. They seem to be cruel, callous, and most of all accepting of indicrimantly destroying human beings bodies and lives, making them sick, mutilating them and causing people like us intense amounts of suffering with no remorse.

They must not use this detterant/weapon or any other one, especially so indiscriminantly and without complete understanding and knowledge of its destructive capabilities.

We must stop this

And I could just imagine the people in the crowd not understanding what was happening to them even if they were told by our military, so many communication problems could occur. In the confusion of such a situation they might think that a bomb had gone off or that they were deliberately being somehow fired upon. All this could cause them to not move away fast enough and to increase the likelihood of, overexposure and therefore permenant damage. Too many problems-variables that could go wrong and it already sounds dangerous with the safest possible usage. Who do we have running this research anyway. They seem to be cruel, callous, and most of all accepting of indicrimantly destroying human beings bodies and lives, making them sick, mutilating them and causing people like us intense amounts of suffering with no remorse.

They must not use this detterant/weapon or any other one, especially so indiscriminantly and without complete understanding and knowledge of its destructive capabilities.

OMG is that my SHADOW!??!?!

Just because YOU can think of evil ways to use this device does not make it evil. What if. The two most dangerous words in our language. They require no thought to ask, and even less thought to answer! Stop being afraid of your own mind! I hate to break this to you but people are basically good, and with all of the people it would take to create such a device and especially in this era of whistle blowers and bloggers, the possibility of anything truly negative occuring is minimal. Unless you beleive the big scary government is gonna start microwaving people into mush. That makes sense because we can't even touch a prisoner in Guantanamo without it being 'headline news', so the military could definatly get away with microwaving poor people!

Naive

You are so naive! What do you think this horrible weapon is for?!? It is for use on people!!! Do you think that the American public would stand for it if it was used against our own citizens for riot control? Of course not!! Then why is OK for us to use it on other people? Are we that racist or discriminatory? Yes, sadly we are. This is an awful weapon which can cause serious permanent injuries to people. Why don't you stick your head in a microwave for 20 seconds and tell me that its all OK. What? Afraid to do it? Think that something important might get cooked? Well, it might. We should not be doing this to fellow human beings!!!

[Mister C]

The view from Bizarro World

Tell that to the 40,000+ dead Iraqi civilians.

judgement day on planet earth

wat is wrong with the world.......people have all closed their eyes...with things like such coming up.......like wat the army had done in iraq is not enough!!!!!!!!!!.It seems that the end of the world is near....as for media coverage....news is wat america thinks news should be!!!!!!!!....if there was full coverage,then y should there be such things as mistreatment of prisoners....disrespect of their religion!!!!!!! this is insane.since when did standing up for ur country aganist alian invasion start being called terrorism?anyone with the answer..no? ok let me tell u...since america said so!!!..i must end...the dwellers of this planet have taken a sad painful path........

OMG is that my SHADOW!??!?!

Just because YOU can think of evil ways to use this device does not make it evil. What if. The two most dangerous words in our language. They require no thought to ask, and even less thought to answer! Stop being afraid of your own mind! I hate to break this to you but people are basically good, and with all of the people it would take to create such a device and especially in this era of whistle blowers and bloggers, the possibility of anything truly negative occuring is minimal. Unless you beleive the big scary government is gonna start microwaving people into mush. That makes sense because we can't even touch a prisoner in Guantanamo without it being 'headline news', so the military could definatly get away with microwaving poor people!

Naive

You are so naive! What do you think this horrible weapon is for?!? It is for use on people!!! Do you think that the American public would stand for it if it was used against our own citizens for riot control? Of course not!! Then why is OK for us to use it on other people? Are we that racist or discriminatory? Yes, sadly we are. This is an awful weapon which can cause serious permanent injuries to people. Why don't you stick your head in a microwave for 20 seconds and tell me that its all OK. What? Afraid to do it? Think that something important might get cooked? Well, it might. We should not be doing this to fellow human beings!!!

[Mister C]

The view from Bizarro World

Tell that to the 40,000+ dead Iraqi civilians.

judgement day on planet earth

wat is wrong with the world.......people have all closed their eyes...with things like such coming up.......like wat the army had done in iraq is not enough!!!!!!!!!!.It seems that the end of the world is near....as for media coverage....news is wat america thinks news should be!!!!!!!!....if there was full coverage,then y should there be such things as mistreatment of prisoners....disrespect of their religion!!!!!!! this is insane.since when did standing up for ur country aganist alian invasion start being called terrorism?anyone with the answer..no? ok let me tell u...since america said so!!!..i must end...the dwellers of this planet have taken a sad painful path........

What are we worried about?

"What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam?" asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the nonlethal weapons research project at Britain's Bradford University.
"How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross
Sucks to be them. Perhaps after the first ?hit? by this weapon, they will think twice about going back for another riot.

"How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?"

We could always just use 50 Caliber Machine Guns. There is no doubt that will cause permanent damage!

Does everyone FORGET that these people are trying to harm others? Tough CRAP!

Ignorance

It amazes me that such ignorance continues to exist! We are in THEIR country. We INVADED!!! If someone invaded us "for our own good", do you think that it would be wrong for you or me to rebel, to stand up for ourselves, to riot, to do whatever we thought we could to try to push the invader out? NO!!! You (and most good citizens) would call it patriotism and heroism. What is the difference?!? They are rioting because they do not want us there, in THEIR COUNTRY!! Try to see someone else's point of view for once. These are not animals. They are human beings. They are the same as me or you. Did you hear that? Ultimately and in every real way that matters WE ARE ALL THE SAME.

[Sboston]

Wow!

So your are saying too damn bad if you get hit by this trying to get out of a riot zone?

It is a good thing they didn't have this in LA when my wife was trying to leave the area that the riot was in.

So I guess you live/work in places that couldn't possibly have a riot? A farm maybe?

What are we worried about?

"What happens if someone in a crowd is unable for whatever reason to move away from the beam?" asked Neil Davison, coordinator of the nonlethal weapons research project at Britain's Bradford University.
"How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross
Sucks to be them. Perhaps after the first ?hit? by this weapon, they will think twice about going back for another riot.

"How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross the threshold for permanent damage? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?"

We could always just use 50 Caliber Machine Guns. There is no doubt that will cause permanent damage!

Does everyone FORGET that these people are trying to harm others? Tough CRAP!

Ignorance

It amazes me that such ignorance continues to exist! We are in THEIR country. We INVADED!!! If someone invaded us "for our own good", do you think that it would be wrong for you or me to rebel, to stand up for ourselves, to riot, to do whatever we thought we could to try to push the invader out? NO!!! You (and most good citizens) would call it patriotism and heroism. What is the difference?!? They are rioting because they do not want us there, in THEIR COUNTRY!! Try to see someone else's point of view for once. These are not animals. They are human beings. They are the same as me or you. Did you hear that? Ultimately and in every real way that matters WE ARE ALL THE SAME.

[Sboston]

Wow!

So your are saying too damn bad if you get hit by this trying to get out of a riot zone?

It is a good thing they didn't have this in LA when my wife was trying to leave the area that the riot was in.

So I guess you live/work in places that couldn't possibly have a riot? A farm maybe?

I hope you're joking

I know people (including my brother) who have been out and walked around a corner and had a riot envelope them. In my brothers case he was sprayed in the eyes with Mace just as he was realizing what was going on. It could be your brother or mom or dad out sight-seeing that happens around the wrong corner and zap, out goes the PaceMaker!

Please everyone, write to your congressmen and senators and ask them to stop this device!

Hope your joking

Having just returned from a 12 month 'tour' with the US Army in Iraq, and having to deal with crowds while manning a machine gun, I find these remarks very interesting. I doubt that any of you people that think this is horrible have ever faced a crowd of people charging at you. I did refrain from firing a machine gun, but let me tell you that if you are at the front of a rioting crowd, you didn't just 'happen to be there' The noise of the crowd is obvious that something is going on. If the noise attracts someone just to 'see what is going on', then mace, tear gas, water cannons or even this device will all have the desired effect on you. Maybe the next time you see a bunch of people, and hear loud noises, you will NOT go forward, but go away from the potential violence.

As a 'defender' during the riots, you are usually outnumbered by MANY, MANY people. We have no idea who is going to pull out guns, or rocks, or bottles, or flaming bottles of gasoline (don't tell me that has never happened during a riot either). People have the right to assemble, and even protest. They do NOT have the right to riot. If they do decide to riot, then the people defending the city property, or building, or whatever, have the right to protect that property. Mace and water cannons have good effect, but if this device started to show up--let me tell you, after the first riot--people would start to think differently about thier "right' to violence.

I hope you're joking

I know people (including my brother) who have been out and walked around a corner and had a riot envelope them. In my brothers case he was sprayed in the eyes with Mace just as he was realizing what was going on. It could be your brother or mom or dad out sight-seeing that happens around the wrong corner and zap, out goes the PaceMaker!

Please everyone, write to your congressmen and senators and ask them to stop this device!

Hope your joking

Having just returned from a 12 month 'tour' with the US Army in Iraq, and having to deal with crowds while manning a machine gun, I find these remarks very interesting. I doubt that any of you people that think this is horrible have ever faced a crowd of people charging at you. I did refrain from firing a machine gun, but let me tell you that if you are at the front of a rioting crowd, you didn't just 'happen to be there' The noise of the crowd is obvious that something is going on. If the noise attracts someone just to 'see what is going on', then mace, tear gas, water cannons or even this device will all have the desired effect on you. Maybe the next time you see a bunch of people, and hear loud noises, you will NOT go forward, but go away from the potential violence.

As a 'defender' during the riots, you are usually outnumbered by MANY, MANY people. We have no idea who is going to pull out guns, or rocks, or bottles, or flaming bottles of gasoline (don't tell me that has never happened during a riot either). People have the right to assemble, and even protest. They do NOT have the right to riot. If they do decide to riot, then the people defending the city property, or building, or whatever, have the right to protect that property. Mace and water cannons have good effect, but if this device started to show up--let me tell you, after the first riot--people would start to think differently about thier "right' to violence.

Disturbing and Unnecessary

Another example of US hypocrisy. Going on about freedom and then they draw up the plans to this horror. Designed to punish and strike fear into anyone that wishes to demonstrate or protest.

What's wrong with water-cannons?

[Sam Papelbon]

zzzzzomg wtf holyholyholy oh noes!

people will be DROWNED ALIVE if we use water cannons!! and if we use pepper spray, people will be SUFFOCAATED ALIVE and if we use rubber bullets people will be POKED TO DEATH ALIVE!!!!!!

zomgomzgomzogmzgom stop the insanity! let's just let people riot! that's the sane way!!!


some people need to stop sensationalizing things. too many morons talking about people getting 'roasted alive'. read a book or something.

Disturbing and Unnecessary

Another example of US hypocrisy. Going on about freedom and then they draw up the plans to this horror. Designed to punish and strike fear into anyone that wishes to demonstrate or protest.

What's wrong with water-cannons?

[Sam Papelbon]

zzzzzomg wtf holyholyholy oh noes!

people will be DROWNED ALIVE if we use water cannons!! and if we use pepper spray, people will be SUFFOCAATED ALIVE and if we use rubber bullets people will be POKED TO DEATH ALIVE!!!!!!

zomgomzgomzogmzgom stop the insanity! let's just let people riot! that's the sane way!!!


some people need to stop sensationalizing things. too many morons talking about people getting 'roasted alive'. read a book or something.